The eye test says otherwise. Harris is one dimensional with some good rebounding skills for his size. I'll say this again. He cannot pass, screen, rotate, defend one on one. He is a scorer and a shooter, and not a great one of that, just a good one. I don't like Derozen, but he is a far better scorer and a good passer for his mentality. I am unsure if he can play SF though. Which is something we need if Leonard is out.
Don't think a deal could happen without Mills or Green or somebody, right?
The difference in salary between Derozan/OG/misc compared to just Kawhi must get them real close to the apron for the hard cap, wouldn't it?
Yeah, I think Mills or Green would be included to make the salaries work, if that is the package Toronto is offering and no third team involved.
I generally agree with you but this guy isn't causing Vegas to lower their odds to EVEN. There's smoke. Whether or not there's also smoldering fires, we don't yet know.
I'm actually willing to give this poster a hearing. As he stated, he gets nothing from it if he's not here to troll afterwards.
I don't think Clippers would give us SGA . . . maybe Robinson. In that case, I'd do Kawhi/Mills for Tobias/Harrell/Robinson but no picks (probably need a first to dump Mills and Robinson is a first himself). And in terms of Harrell being an RFA I know he would have to agree but I don't know any of the other rules in the CBA. My ideal offseason would've been:
Same draft picks, Spurs nailed this.
Find a way to keep Green and Gay which was done as well.
Use the MLE on Mbah a Moute instead of Marco.
Re-sign both Anderson and Bertans.
Trade Kawhi for Harris/Harrell/2 first round picks if Harris agrees beforehand to re-sign to long, reasonable deal like 4/80.
Use the remainder of the MLE on Metu.
Let Parker walk which we did.
Waive BP3, don't re-sign Forbes, hope Manu doesn't retire.
Arrange the contracts so we stay under the tax . . . it's very close from my calculations.
Line-up would've been
(let's face it . . . Manu is a PG and Mills a SG when they're on the floor together)
Murray/Manu/White
Green/Mills/LWIV
Harris/Gay/Mbah a Moute
Anderson/Harrell/Bertans
Aldridge/Gasol/Metu
Next season assume Gasol and Manu are gone . . . draft again to get a big guard who can shot and drive and another mobile big man.
Looks like another week will go by without a trade... Why doesn't Leonard say anything?
The more i think about it, I don’t think Raps see this as a rental situation as much as a salary dump opportunity. They’re long term money situation looks rough this AND next year with Lowry, DeRozen and Serge each making over 22M. They’re paying luxury tax this year and slotted to pay at least 16M in it again next season (that excludes the repeater surcharge).
With how bad they’ve underperformed, the writing is on the wall that they need to move at least one of those guys. We’re not taking Serge. Those peices (OG, etc.) are cost of potentially getting off a steep luxury tax bill next season. Sending them Green’s expiring and the difference in Leonards deal wipes all that out.
I'm ok with Toronto derozan plus obviously need to know what the plus is.
With that being said when pop told Leonard they had a deal lined up for some help for him another star and we all heard it was Kembra walker obviously trading Leonard. Do you guys think the Spurs still have something like that lined up Walker or who ever. If you get the package we are all discussing from Toronto or something close we still have the pieces apparently to get this other mystery person. So would it be mills Murray plus for Walker or gasol mills Murray or green for Walker. Like what would it take and how the did the Spurs have the pieces to pull something off like that???
i do think a team of:
derozan
walker
aldridge
gay/og
and one of those Toronto bigs
with our bench then that's a pretty damn solid team no????
Easily fixable by managing rotations and/or inserting Patty or Bertans into the starting line-up. Outside of Murray and DeRozan, there would be plenty of 3PT shooting on the roster.
Why are we convinced that it's Derozan on the move and not Lowry? Is it just because of the IG thing and the Lowe proposal?
Honestly, I'd be ecstatic with Lowry/OG/pick for Kawhi/Patty. I think that squad could win 50-55 games and be about even with Utah in that next tier of Western teams behind GSW & Hou.
According to ESPN's RPM, Lowry produced the 6th/13th/9th most wins in the regular season from 2016-18. Kawhi was 7th/8th/Inj over that same time period. I know RPM isnt a perfect stat, but Lowry is a legitimately valuable player.
I think Harris would be at least 5M/year cheaper on his next contract. If we don't have more than one (LMA) guy who can get his own shot and do it efficiently honestly we should just blow it up. LMA probably would've fetched at least the 16 pick from the Suns and Kawhi could've been moved for at least 2 pick and Bogdanovic from the Kings. We could also have moved LMA to the Grizzles for at least the 4 pick and a Parsons salary dump. I don't think that's in the plans though because it didn't happen. I just don't think you can give up Kawhi if we're re-tooling and not expect at least one good isolation player back. I also don't like that DeRozan isn't a good three point shooter. Our starting line-up is already lacking spacing. I'd rather have Lowry (by a lot) but we had a logjam at that position which was finally solved. Raptors do have a couple nice bigs they could send us and we get to salary dump Mills. It might work. I don't expect DeRozan to age badly. Maybe Pop could get him to shoot 3's better.
no way on Lowry man ...makes more money and 3-4 years older pass on Lowry.
Mainly because we are heavy in guards. Rotational guys this year: Murray, Mills, White, Green, Beli. Then there is Walker, re-upping Forbes, and who knows with Manu. Getting Lowry on top of that, who is a 30 plus min guy. We would have to send out 2 guards and lose Manu.
The assumption is they have come to the realization that Lowry-DeRozan core has hit it's ceiling. This would be more of a salary dump of DeRozan so they can start heading in a different direction earlier moreso than it is them banking on being able to resign Kawhitter. I'm sure they'd try to keep him but confidence in keeping him isn't the reason they would make the move.
DeRozan, OG, and a pick would be enough for me. Remain compe ive for Pop and LMA's final years by adding an in his prime 25 PPG guy and get a 20 year old that will hold down the SF position for years to come. What's so bad about that?
This is a concern. It’s nice to give Murray some mentoring but it might stunt his growth. Also are the Spurs the only viable trade partner for a salary dump? I’m sure other teams can make an offer for either. Really just seems like a signal to the rest of the league both guys are available.
And yet Lowry's 5-year projected market value on 538 (appropriate since we're on pg 538 of the thread) is $222M vs. $89M for Derozan. I think all of 538's salary numbers are inflated, but the point is pretty clear that a) Lowry has been move valuable than Derozan historically and b) the stats systems, which account for age, expect Lowry to continue to outperform DD for the next several years.
Beyond that, Lowry allegedly actually wanted to play in SA last offseason, which should count for something.
Vegas had Kawhi going to LA just a week ago. Not a great barometer.
I would rather have a Patty at 10M than Lowry at 30M. I need to take a shower now.
Not saying it’s bad since a trade is better than having all that value (Kawhi) remain on the injured list. If it really is a salary dump then it makes a ton of sense. It just doesn’t make sense to give up OG (whom I really like) if they’re getting a player like him but on a one-year rental. If it isn’t Lowry then Green will most likely be dealt. Trade will probably look like DeRozan and OG/Siakam/Poltl for Leonard and Green/Mills. Green is more likely to be traded since the team has a glut of wings. I’m sure Masai would also want to part with Ibaka and/or Valanciunas so that may complicate things, requiring Gasol and Brandon Paul to be traded.
Because you can get better options if scoring is an option. Saric is up to 14ppg, up to his 3rd year, and has a better feel for the game. Ingram up to 16ppg, also going into his 3rd and a better playmaker. What about Jimmy Buckets? There are options if scoring is what we want, and better options at that, both short term and long term. You know what other player was a good second option but a terrible third and fourth option? Richard Jefferson. That is what Harris is. Gifted scoring when is his number is called, but cannot adapt when his number isn't called for.
Lowry doesn't move the needle for me. He's like a less talented, shorter, fatter, PG version of DeRozan.
Hasn't he historically choked much worse than DeRozan in the playoffs?
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