Brett Kavanaugh now under FBI investigation

[rmt]

I never followed his case closely. However, I do believe when an outcry is made, whether it's 1 or several, we need to take it seriously and investigate.

So where's the taking seriously and investigation for the hundreds of thousands of REAL evidence/rape kits sitting on shelves?

[Cry Havoc]

Isn't it interesting that other similarly situated victims, from the girl abused by Roman Polansky, to the teenager abused by Kevin Spacey, to the many women raped by Harvey Weinstein can remember such basic details like where it happened, how it happened, when it happened, and the aftermath, and yet she can't and she didn't suffer harms nearly as traumatizing as those victims based on her allegations.

So you're saying all those troops that have disassociation about war events and can't remember what happened in the field are lying, also? What about witnesses to horrific crimes?

Or maybe it's that human beings are different and respond to different stimuli, you know, differently? This isn't complicated -- it's Psych 101. It's high school psych. The fact that you compare all victims and try to make a claim that they should all have the same recollection is absolutely absurd. There is no way you're an attorney if you think that's how the memories of victims work. Good god. It's ridiculous to even read that kind of nonsense.

And if memory is such a problem for her, how can we expect her memory to clearly identify Kavanaugh and essentially nothing else?

Do you remember what you had for lunch 167 days ago? No? But I bet you remember the first time you broke a bone or the face of the first person you fell in love with.

Human memory doesn't work like a computer. It's selective in what it remembers. That doesn't mean all memories are inaccurate. I don't remember most of the college parties I went to but I definitely remember the girls I was crushing on while I was going to those parties. According to you, that means the girls never existed. Again -- your knowledge of human memory is inaccurate and doesn't hold up to empirical scrutiny (kind of ironic, because if you went to college you undoubtedly read information that contradicts what you're saying now, but can't apparently recall it ). If we subjected every victim of PTSD to this kind of interrogation, no witness with the above condition would ever be able to corroborate a murder they witnessed, or any kind of traumatic event. Yet they can, and do, every day. It's exceedingly common for victims of trauma to remember nothing about a particular evening that they were/a loved one was attacked and still be able to pick the perp out of a lineup or describe his face with vivid detail and accuracy to a sketch artist.

Again -- this doesn't mean that Dr. Ford is accurate in her claims. It doesn't mean Kavanaugh is 100% guilty. Or even 10% guilty. What it means is that this deserves an investigation before we put someone in the highest office in the land, and we should use science and empirical data to guide us on how to interpret this situation and decide if he is fit to be a judge.

[Winehole23]

So where's the taking seriously and investigation for the hundreds of thousands of REAL evidence/rape kits sitting on shelves?

the state of Texas takes it seriously enough to let us pay for it with a kickstarter account

https://www.texastribune.org/2018/06...e-wendy-davis/

[cd98]

I never followed his case closely. However, I do believe when an outcry is made, whether it's 1 or several, we need to take it seriously and investigate.

I agree, but there should be basic facts provided so an investigation can be done. That happened in the Cosby cases, but has not happened in this allegation. Maybe she shows up Monday or Wednesday or whatever and fills in the holes.

[cd98]

So you're saying all those troops that have disassociation about war events and can't remember what happened in the field are lying, also? What about witnesses to horrific crimes?

Or maybe it's that human beings are different and respond to different stimuli, you know, differently? This isn't complicated -- it's Psych 101. It's high school psych. The fact that you compare all victims and try to make a claim that they should all have the same recollection is absolutely absurd. There is no way you're an attorney if you think that's how the memories of victims work. Good god. It's ridiculous to even read that kind of nonsense.



Do you remember what you had for lunch 167 days ago? No? But I bet you remember the first time you broke a bone or the face of the first person you fell in love with.

Human memory doesn't work like a computer. It's selective in what it remembers. That doesn't mean all memories are inaccurate. I don't remember most of the college parties I went to but I definitely remember the girls I was crushing on while I was going to those parties. According to you, that means the girls never existed. Again -- your knowledge of human memory is inaccurate and doesn't hold up to empirical scrutiny (kind of ironic, because if you went to college you undoubtedly read information that contradicts what you're saying now, but can't apparently recall it . If we subjected every victim of PTSD to this kind of interrogation, no witness with the above condition would ever be able to corroborate a murder they witnessed, or any kind of traumatic event. Yet they can, and do, every day. It's exceedingly common for victims of trauma to remember nothing about a particular evening that they were/a loved one was attacked and still be able to pick the perp out of a lineup or describe his face with vivid detail and accuracy to a sketch artist.

Again -- this doesn't mean that Dr. Ford is accurate in her claims. It doesn't mean Kavanaugh is 100% guilty. Or even 10% guilty. What it means is that this deserves an investigation before we put someone in the highest office in the land, and we should use science and empirical data to guide us on how to interpret this situation and decide if he is fit to be a judge.

I don't think I'm saying anything about PTSD. And I don't think Ford has claimed she had PTSD either. We don't know if her unwillingness to provide key information is because she suffers a memory loss or is intentional. I'm assuming you have not evaluated her and you are only assuming that she is suffering some kind of memory loss from PTSD. You have no verifiable proof that any of this happened, therefore you have no proof whether she is suffering memory loss or lying. That's the same quandary we are all in, unfortunately, when it comes to this allegation.

How can the FBI or anyone investigate a 35 year old crime when the accuser cannot tell us where it happened, who's house it was (there were only 4 people there), how she got there, where she went after, nothing. Does the FBI need to go into every house in Maryland and determine if it could be the house? And there is no physical evidence, it's been 35 years. And no one else has come forward. So what exactly do you mean by the FBI investigating when all the people accused of being there have denied it ever took place and the accuser can't remember basic facts that would allow an investigation to occur?

[Pavlov]

I don't think I'm saying anything about PTSD. And I don't think Ford has claimed she had PTSD either. We don't know if her unwillingness to provide key information is because she suffers a memory loss or is intentional. I'm assuming you have not evaluated her and you are only assuming that she is suffering some kind of memory loss from PTSD. You have no verifiable proof that any of this happened, therefore you have no proof whether she is suffering memory loss or lying. That's the same quandary we are all in, unfortunately, when it comes to this allegation.

So send in people who investigate these things for a living.

They can be found at the FBI.

[Winehole23]

I agree, but there should be basic facts provided so an investigation can be done. That happened in the Cosby cases, but has not happened in this allegation. Maybe she shows up Monday or Wednesday or whatever and fills in the holes.

I heard Grassley's top staffer, Rick Davis, already completed his investigation and is ready for Kavanaugh to be confirmed.

[cd98]

So send in people who investigate these things for a living.

They can be found at the FBI.

Hmmm, FBI go into every house in Maryland and see if there is a layout that kind of matches the memory of someone that can't really remember. Good luck with that.

[cd98]

I heard Grassley's top staffer, Rick Davis, already completed his investigation and is ready for Kavanaugh to be confirmed.

I'm sure he did. He asked Kavanaugh and he said no. What more can he investigate? He needs to have Ford testify, if nothing else, just to see if she even appears credible.

[Cry Havoc]

Hmmm, FBI go into every house in Maryland and see if there is a layout that kind of matches the memory of someone that can't really remember. Good luck with that.

At least you sound reasonable and not hyperbolic beyond all ing reason.

But yeah, you're suuuuper objective.

[Pavlov]

I heard Grassley's top staffer, Rick Davis, already completed his investigation and is ready for Kavanaugh to be confirmed.

He read Ed Wehlan's tweets and that's all he needed.

[Cry Havoc]

Hmmm, FBI go into every house in Maryland and see if there is a layout that kind of matches the memory of someone that can't really remember. Good luck with that.

Just out of curiosity: Do you remember the layout of every house you've ever set foot inside? Even just once?

[Pavlov]

Hmmm, FBI go into every house in Maryland and see if there is a layout that kind of matches the memory of someone that can't really remember. Good luck with that.

You're a pretty disingenuous piece of , you know that?

[cd98]

So send in people who investigate these things for a living.

They can be found at the FBI.

Yes, they can go open the yearbook and call everyone in the yearbook and ask them if this happened in their house. But what if it didn't happen in any of their houses? Then they can just go door to door? And how can they investigate a day that no one knows?

[cd98]

Just out of curiosity: Do you remember the layout of every house you've ever set foot inside? Even just once?

Absolutely not. That's why I'm wondering what kind of investigation you are expecting.

[Pavlov]

Yes, they can go open the yearbook and call everyone in the yearbook and ask them if this happened in their house. But what if it didn't happen in any of their houses? Then they can just go door to door? And how can they investigate a day that no one knows?

If they hit all the dead ends you are sure they will they can say that and there will be no more complaining the FBI didn't investigate.

You want to stop any investigation, period.

[cd98]

You're a pretty disingenuous piece of , you know that?

That's a much better answer than you trying to explain how you can investigate a claim with no verifiable facts. I guess I'm a bad guy because I don't agree with what you are selling.

[cd98]

If they hit all the dead ends you are sure they will they can say that and there will be no more complaining the FBI didn't investigate.

You want to stop any investigation, period.

No, I think you invite the FBI to the hearing and you have them interrogate both Ford and Kavanaugh for the cameras and don't let the Senators talk at all. I actually like that idea more and more. But let's do this in public since that is the forum that Ford decided to use to address this grievance.

[Pavlov]

That's a much better answer than you trying to explain how you can investigate a claim with no verifiable facts. I guess I'm a bad guy because I don't agree with what you are selling.

If they can't investigate, let them say they can't.

You want to prevent even that.

That is much worse. You're a bad guy because of that.

[Trill Clinton]

So where's the taking seriously and investigation for the hundreds of thousands of REAL evidence/rape kits sitting on shelves?

do you think women's outcries of rape should be taken serious and investigated? How do you feel about men who immediately and automatically call said women liars?

[Cry Havoc]

Absolutely not. That's why I'm wondering what kind of investigation you are expecting.

So because you can't remember the layouts of any of those houses, you can't tell me a single memory from anything that's ever happened inside of them?

I'm seriously baffled at what you're saying. Do you think a victim needs to be a ing architect to give testimony in court, or the alternative being the jury yells "SHAME" and dropkicks them out of the courtroom?

[Cry Havoc]

do you think women's outcries of rape should be taken serious and investigated? How do you feel about men who immediately and automatically call said women liars?

Only if they can give a list of square footage, material in the backsplash, amenities, brand of the refrigerator, and number of kitchen tiles in each house. Otherwise it's obvious that they're ING LYING.... but I look forward to her testimony to find out if she's actually a liar on Monday. - Someone in this thread

[Winehole23]

I'm sure he did. He asked Kavanaugh and he said no. What more can he investigate?

Davis deleted the tweets and locked down his social media accounts, but the screenshots are out there. What he has said already -- he was the committee's lead investigator -- seems to be good reason to think the Judiciary Committee can't be trusted for an impartial evaluation.

[cd98]

So because you can't remember the layouts of any of those houses, you can't tell me a single memory from anything that's ever happened inside of them?

I'm seriously baffled at what you're saying. Do you think a victim needs to be a ing architect to give testimony in court, or the alternative being the jury yells "SHAME" and dropkicks them out of the courtroom?

No, I'm saying that if you can't name a location, a time, how you got there, and where you went after, and who's house it was, how do you expect to investigate. "Investigate" is not a magic word. You need to have some leads to look into.

But I think if Ford was interested in having her claims investigated, she would have gone to the local police department in Maryland with jurisdiction, and not Sen. Feinstein. I think if she was interested in an investigation, she would have asked for that before she asked for a hearing. Note that she asked for a hearing and the Republicans said okay, and then she said she didn't want to do a hearing. And when they said that she needed to do a hearing, then she said she wanted the FBI to investigate first (in concert with the Democrats). And that's been my point all along. The story is certainly possible, but it's called into question for 2 reasons. First, she is leaving out any facts that are verifiable, which makes it potentially a concocted story. And second, she has behaved highly political in bringing this about in a very public forum at a time that is very politically convenient for what the Democrats are trying to do. I'm sorry, but that eats into her credibility.

[cd98]

So because you can't remember the layouts of any of those houses, you can't tell me a single memory from anything that's ever happened inside of them?

I'm seriously baffled at what you're saying. Do you think a victim needs to be a ing architect to give testimony in court, or the alternative being the jury yells "SHAME" and dropkicks them out of the courtroom?

I don't know about your studies or whatever, but I do know that in a court of law, victims of a rape trial are expected and do testify in detail to all the things that Ford conveniently omits.