Red Planet of Derrick White

[RD2191]

Is D White really that good or are our other guards just that bad?

[RD2191]

Tonight is exhibit A of why I think we need to temper our expectations of White. He is too inconsistent on offense. I know he had 7 dimes but he can't get away with 1-5 shooting on most nights, particularly next season when Murray is chomping at the bit to prove his worth as the starting PG. In other words, stop crowning White already and let's see who wins the job outright by next preseason. He certainly can't get away with nights like this in the playoffs.

Shut up got. Stupid terrible take.

[vander]

that's a joy to watch. hopefully Murray doesn't lose to much athleticism and quickness from that injury, I'm salivating at how good a defensive combo those 2 could be

[John B]

Tonight is exhibit A of why I think we need to temper our expectations of White. He is too inconsistent on offense. I know he had 7 dimes but he can't get away with 1-5 shooting on most nights, particularly next season when Murray is chomping at the bit to prove his worth as the starting PG. In other words, stop crowning White already and let's see who wins the job outright by next preseason. He certainly can't get away with nights like this in the playoffs.

I bet Pop is pushing him to takeover on offense more. Don’t blame the kid. He is trying different ways. As long as he’s learning from his experience, it’s just a positive going forward. Pop has found a new toy and he’s letting it loose and watching it creates havoc. He’ll reel him in if needed. But I think Pop truly believes he can dominate his position, and put pressure on his dependers come playoffs.

[exstatic]

Don't really know that the argument matters - Pop will get it figured out, and in the mean time as long as Murray has even marginally improved his jumper both guys will play at least 28 mins and probably more, and I expect both to be on the floor to close out games.

The real question is will PATFO be willing to do what it takes to get a legit starting caliber 3. We have played the whole year without a real SF, and will have no chance to truly contend until that gets resolved.

If we get ‘a legit starting caliber 3’, that throws DD back into the guard pool, and severely curtails minutes for our 3 young guards.

[John B]

If we get ‘a legit starting caliber 3’, that throws DD back into the guard pool, and severely curtails minutes for our 3 young guards.

I’ve been thinking about that. And I have been adamant for the need of legit 3 and D SF. But now seeing White improving every night, Pop was big on Murray last year and clearly showed it when he finally took that starting job from his long-time Padawan Parker. And I know Pop’s been salivating on athletic 3 guards combo. Do we get a “legit starting caliber 3?” Yup that’s a puzzle. Do we get a big name SF and risk messing the chemistry? Or develop from within, in hopes Huestis, Metu pans out? History dictates it’s the latter. I think he hasn’t given up on Demar improving more on defense. He will remain the staring SF for now. But without a 3pt shooter, that Murray, White, Demar, Aldridge and Poeltl is challenging. Maybe Bertans on 4 and Aldridge on 5? But Poeltl needs to start. The kid has so much potential as a starter. Spurs can’t risk shaking his confidence. And he’s more effective with a scoring PF like Aldridge, who can shoot and also get him open. Man, Pop has a lot to decide. Trade our picks to move up and get another defensive SF like Kawhi? Hmm.

[RD2191]

I’ve been thinking about that. And I have been adamant for the need of legit 3 and D SF. But now seeing White improving every night, Pop was big on Murray last year and clearly showed it when he finally took that starting job from his long-time Padawan Parker. And I know Pop’s been salivating on athletic 3 guards combo. Do we get a “legit starting caliber 3?” Yup that’s a puzzle. Do we get a big name SF and risk messing the chemistry? Or develop from within, in hopes Huestis, Metu pans out? History dictates it’s the latter. I think he hasn’t given up on Demar improving more on defense. He will remain the staring SF for now. But without a 3pt shooter, that Murray, White, Demar, Aldridge and Poeltl is challenging. Maybe Bertans on 4 and Aldridge on 5? But Poeltl needs to start. The kid has so much potential as a starter. Spurs can’t risk shaking his confidence. And he’s more effective with a scoring PF like Aldridge, who can shoot and also get him open. Man, Pop has a lot to decide. Trade our picks to move up and get another defensive SF like Kawhi? Hmm.

This is such a corny ass post.

[John B]

This is such a corny ass post.

lazy saturday morning. Out to the hills though for mountain biking. Might change my views later

[SpaceCoast Spursfan]

Tonight is exhibit A of why I think we need to temper our expectations of White. He is too inconsistent on offense. I know he had 7 dimes but he can't get away with 1-5 shooting on most nights, particularly next season when Murray is chomping at the bit to prove his worth as the starting PG. In other words, stop crowning White already and let's see who wins the job outright by next preseason. He certainly can't get away with nights like this in the playoffs.

I guess that depends on what your expectations are. I am not sure exactly where White's ceiling is, but what I love about White is even if his shot isn't falling he is contributing by playing defense, creating for others and rebounding. Both DJ and White are players who can have positive impact even on off nights. Both need some improvement on jumpshot (for White only needs marginal improvement, DJ we will have to see) and finishing more consistently.

[cd021]

Tonight is exhibit A of why I think we need to temper our expectations of White. He is too inconsistent on offense. I know he had 7 dimes but he can't get away with 1-5 shooting on most nights, particularly next season when Murray is chomping at the bit to prove his worth as the starting PG. In other words, stop crowning White already and let's see who wins the job outright by next preseason. He certainly can't get away with nights like this in the playoffs.

This is essentially White's rookie year, it's a bit silly to call a player who has barely played 1000 minutes inconsistent on offense.

That is going to happen. Overall, his improvement from his first few games this season to now is staggering tbh, same could be said for Jakob.

[Ocotillo]

Now that we have the White vs. Murray debate, I hope they turn out to be as good for the team as the old school Parker vs. Ginobili argument turned out.

[cd021]

I’ve been thinking about that. And I have been adamant for the need of legit 3 and D SF. But now seeing White improving every night, Pop was big on Murray last year and clearly showed it when he finally took that starting job from his long-time Padawan Parker. And I know Pop’s been salivating on athletic 3 guards combo. Do we get a “legit starting caliber 3?” Yup that’s a puzzle. Do we get a big name SF and risk messing the chemistry? Or develop from within, in hopes Huestis, Metu pans out? History dictates it’s the latter. I think he hasn’t given up on Demar improving more on defense. He will remain the staring SF for now. But without a 3pt shooter, that Murray, White, Demar, Aldridge and Poeltl is challenging. Maybe Bertans on 4 and Aldridge on 5? But Poeltl needs to start. The kid has so much potential as a starter. Spurs can’t risk shaking his confidence. And he’s more effective with a scoring PF like Aldridge, who can shoot and also get him open. Man, Pop has a lot to decide. Trade our picks to move up and get another defensive SF like Kawhi? Hmm.

I think it's a given that DeRozan is going to be the starting 3 next season. The need for an defense minded small forward is negated somewhat with White, Murray and Poeltl all in the rotation.

Murray will likely reclaim his spot in the SL while White becomes the 6th man. There is a question about how the big man minutes get distributed next season, though.

[spurraider21]

I don’t think they’re going to start them together. Probably start white + Forbes and have Murray/mills off the bench. Maybe walker gets into the mix but it’s far from certain

as much as i want them to start Murray/white together, it’s going to be tough to make rotations work and give enough offensive spacing for derozan

[sasaint]

If we get ‘a legit starting caliber 3’, that throws DD back into the guard pool, and severely curtails minutes for our 3 young guards.

That's why I have been arguing since January that IF Dijon has developed a good 3-ball, DeMar would be made expendable. Re-allocating his salary for a good SF or even 2 rotation caliber players would be a much better use of $27MM.

IF Dijon has truly improved his 3-ball, and IF I am DeMar, I spend every spare minute in the gym with Chip improving my own 3-ball.

[BD24]

Was just looking at White's splits because I was curious what the numbers look like since he kind of took that step forward. I think January and March give you some good insight into what we can expect statistically from him going forward. His shooting pct won't be what it was in January, but I think something like 15 - 5 - 5 is more than reasonable for him. His scoring hasn't been as good in March as his fg% has regressed back to what is likely the mean. With that said his playmaking, rebounding, and defensive counting numbers have all improved this month. Small sample size I know, but will be interesting to see if he continues down this path. February wasn't great, but is such a small sample size and him coming off injury that I don't put a lot of stock in it. I think next year he could probably score between 15 - 20 ppg with efficiency similar to march depending on the amount of touches he receives.

January	15	30.9	5.7-9.6	.597	1.1-2.3	.471	2.8-3.7	.750	0.7	3.5	4.2	3.9	0.8	1.1	2.9	1.6	15.3
February	4	25.0	3.8-10.0	.375	0.5-2.8	.182	0.3-0.5	.500	0.5	4.8	5.3	3.5	0.8	1.3	2.0	1.3	8.3
March	6	29.3	5.3-10.8	.492	1.0-2.7	.375	1.0-1.5	.667	0.5	4.2	4.7	6.3	1.8	1.2	2.5	1.7	12.7

[sasaint]

Was just looking at White's splits because I was curious what the numbers look like since he kind of took that step forward. I think January and March give you some good insight into what we can expect statistically from him going forward. His shooting pct won't be what it was in January, but I think something like 15 - 5 - 5 is more than reasonable for him. His scoring hasn't been as good in March as his fg% has regressed back to what is likely the mean. With that said his playmaking, rebounding, and defensive counting numbers have all improved this month. Small sample size I know, but will be interesting to see if he continues down this path. February wasn't great, but is such a small sample size and him coming off injury that I don't put a lot of stock in it. I think next year he could probably score between 15 - 20 ppg with efficiency similar to march depending on the amount of touches he receives.

January	15	30.9	5.7-9.6	.597	1.1-2.3	.471	2.8-3.7	.750	0.7	3.5	4.2	3.9	0.8	1.1	2.9	1.6	15.3
February	4	25.0	3.8-10.0	.375	0.5-2.8	.182	0.3-0.5	.500	0.5	4.8	5.3	3.5	0.8	1.3	2.0	1.3	8.3
March	6	29.3	5.3-10.8	.492	1.0-2.7	.375	1.0-1.5	.667	0.5	4.2	4.7	6.3	1.8	1.2	2.5	1.7	12.7

Many thanks. 15 points sounds about right, but I think your projections fail to take into account the expected return of Dijon. I would expect his rebounding numbers to be maybe 3.5, but his assist numbers to be maybe 6.5.

[R. DeMurre]

The idea that Murray was named to the the 2nd all NBA defensive team because of social media and self promotion seems really far fetched. He was #1 amongst PGs in DRPM by a good margin, #2 in steals per 48, and #3 in rebounds per 48. Those are impressive numbers. If anything, it's more likely many of those older sportswriters and broadcasters would've been turned off by his social media, not impressed by it.

[sasaint]

The idea that Murray was named to the the 2nd all NBA defensive team because of social media and self promotion seems really far fetched. He was #1 amongst PGs in DRPM by a good margin, #2 in steals per 48, and #3 in rebounds per 48. Those are impressive numbers. If anything, it's more likely many of those older sportswriters and broadcasters would've been turned off by his social media, not impressed by it.

Murray earned it. Excellent young defender who should only get better.

[r0drig0lac]

The idea that Murray was named to the the 2nd all NBA defensive team because of social media and self promotion seems really far fetched. He was #1 amongst PGs in DRPM by a good margin, #2 in steals per 48, and #3 in rebounds per 48. Those are impressive numbers. If anything, it's more likely many of those older sportswriters and broadcasters would've been turned off by his social media, not impressed by it.

logically that this was not the reason, just the same bs being thrown in spurstalk to create a "rivalry" between white fans and murray fans (unfortunately the crap that was made between Parker and Manu will be made again)

[DAF86]

Think he's trying to say. Why does it matter?

He actually said Murray > White at defense. If it really didn't matter, he wouldn't have even gone there.

[R. DeMurre]

logically that this was not the reason, just the same bs being thrown in spurstalk to create a "rivalry" between white fans and murray fans (unfortunately the crap that was made between Parker and Manu will be made again)

Yeah, it's such an odd impulse that so many fans have, to either set players against each other-- the exact opposite of teamwork!-- or to go off on certain players... I remember a few years ago, Jeff Ayres was one of those targets. There'd be threads by incredibly angry posters here saying how much they HATED Jeff Ayres, how pissed off they were that he'd mishandled a pass in the post in garbage time.

[SpurPadre]

This is essentially White's rookie year, it's a bit silly to call a player who has barely played 1000 minutes inconsistent on offense.

That is going to happen. Overall, his improvement from his first few games this season to now is staggering tbh, same could be said for Jakob.

It goes both ways bruh. On that logic, it's also a bit silly to crown his ass. That's been my point all along. I think Murray should start next season but I now admit that he will have to prove it and earn it by preseason. Their roles are NOT etched in stone.

[GAustex]

It goes both ways bruh. On that logic, it's also a bit silly to crown his ass. That's been my point all along. I think Murray should start next season but I now admit that he will have to prove it and earn it by preseason. Their roles are NOT etched in stone.

If only Murray (DDR also, pipe dream I know) could hit a respectable percentage of spot up 3s
Then you got something

[SpursDynasty85]

He actually said Murray > White at defense. If it really didn't matter, he wouldn't have even gone there.

Maybe. Sorry if I completely side tracked your analysis with him. A lot of White vs Murray debates when I think we should be ecstatic about having both of them and making sure they can play with each other. If you do not mind me putting my 2 cents in, Murray is the better off ball defender and rebounder whole White is the better on ball defender. Right now White all day long but Murray stilm has more upside on the defensive end while I thin White has more upaide on the offensive end.

[cd021]

It goes both ways bruh. On that logic, it's also a bit silly to crown his ass. That's been my point all along. I think Murray should start next season but I now admit that he will have to prove it and earn it by preseason. Their roles are NOT etched in stone.

He's played well at the toughest position in the NBA, with limited experience. Saying so isn't crowning his ass. I still think Pop gives Murray his starting spot back, also allows for White to have a chance to be the primary playmaker for long stretches off the bench. Think they'll both end up playing around 28 mpg next season so it may be moot to worry about who's starting and who's coming off the bench.