I don’t think it would be humanly possible for me to become more angry with a person than I would be with Pop if he traded White to make room for Wombat’s minutes. I would be that one crazy guy holding a “fire Poop” sign outside the ATnT center
Even though Bertans’ shooting helped the team some during the regular season, I agree he’s expendable. His playoff showing sucked. Maybe the Nuggets athleticism was a bad match. Who knows? If Pop would move from Mills and Belli then ok, keep Davis. Don’t see that happening.
I think Toronto only offers him if they can keep Kawhi.
In sorry but yes getting Murray back would increase the Spurs Talent level up by far overall but I just don't see that talent level of Murray , DDR, and White meshing together all that well in actual game time situations. Maybe somehow Pop and co, can find a way to make it all work, but everything points to the opposite.
Great breakdown. Would Gasol signing with another team next year free up more cash? It was my belief that the Spurs would only have to pay the amount not covered in a new deal.
timvp - I appreciate the write up. My biggest question is, even with agreeing patience being the best option, is why do you trade your best asset (Kawhi) for DeRozan if you aren’t willing to figuratively go for it?
Are you saying they were but maybe after seeing it actually happen they reversed course and are just minimizing the damage?
Because either way, it’s odd to make a trade for DeRozan and not go for it as hard as possible. If it’s the latter and they decided after seeing it that it’s no longer worth it to go for it, then shouldn’t moving DeRozan be top of the list?
They made the playoffs without DeRozan and Kawhi and now have White/Lonnie/Poeltl to add to that team plus 2 firsts. If you made a trade for DeRozan you should be going for it.
If that’s not possible and you are ok with win-building (be a playoff team while developing youth) then you can do that without DeRozan and likely get assets for him (trade to a team like CHA for a first).
Seems wild to me to trade for DeRozan with no real plan; seem wilder to me to see what you have and then not pick a direction.
Trading DeRozan can get you assets and keep you where you are in the West if you really think you can’t be a contender with him. I’m just challenging the mindset.
I think with a real impact player (cap space free agent or trade) plus Lonnie Murray White Poeltl SA can make noise. Especially if GS loses KD
What the Spurs wanted from the trade was the closest thing they could get to guaranteed scoring. And in fact, with DDR they got it. 21.2 points per game this year. Also, DDR got 6 rebounds/game and 6 assists.
Statistically, the Spurs did well on the trade. They moneyballed it, so to speak, and filled out the stat sheet. Unfortunately, stats are never the whole story.
Dont think the spurs have any plans to trade demar but id love the spurs to find a Way to move up in the draft
The main issue is that we have too many average playersM most of them though are the only ones who shoot 3s. Beli, Forbes, Bertans, Mills. All of them in theory should go via trades either direct of as a filler in a three teams deal. Ideally, have the four of them go for two experienced shooter wings (we have enough youth).
All that is feasible cap- and contractwise. Problem is finding the right trades, for whom? None of the usual suspects are reliable volume shooters.
Considering the projected starting fives cannot make a three to save their life, we are stuck in keeping two of Forbes, Beli, Bertans. Mills is untradeable unless packaged with picks and in exchange for a bad contract (ryan anderson, even whiteside tha Miami needs to dump).
We desperately need volume shooters that can actually play, especially a wing starter.
i like this list. morris would be a nice fit as would matthews. one thing that i didn't see addressed in the OP's post though was addressing the shooting. i think our ideal MLE usage would be on a wing defender with three-point range.
I get that; but I dont think the Spurs just wanted scoring. They wanted a player that could help them win now. If that is the case, you don’t trade your best player for someone to help you win now without out making other moves to actually help said move succeed.
i don't know that pop actually ever stated this; what i recall him saying is that the team was going to run a lot more (with murray at the point) and that whoever could keep up would be in the rotation. i have no idea of whether or not he had bodies in mind when he said this or if he was being cryptic but when i heard this, the first person i thought of that would not be able to keep up was gasol.
I am already on record saying that I think LMA/DeRozan along with everyone SA is getting back (Murray/Lonnie/2 1sts/MLE) is going to be a good team. Not perfect, but in the mix.
But the logic of it all seems off to me. I would love SA to move up in the draft if it means getting a player that can not only play SF/PF now, but grow with Lonnie/White/Murray core. That SF/PF (Rudy Gay replacement) is exactly what would pair with with the young core.
However, if you believe you are just stuck with not being able to take a leap with the DDR/LMA core you have to at least consider moving DeRozan IMO.
I get not wanting to trade White/Lonnie/Murray/Poeltl or give up picks to dump Mills/Beli/Bertans for cap space in the situation. I dont get not being willing to trade DeRozan where you would be getting assets back while quite possibly not taking yourself out of the playoffs at the same time.
If you aren’t willing to go for it and give up assets to try and improve, then I think trading DeRozan should be on the table if it nets you assets.
also, based on what i got from pop's exit interview with the press is that murray and white will start, or at least share the same backcourt. he specifically referenced white possibly being at the 2 spot. my inference would be what pop is imagining from a three point standpoint. his system is not going to be similar to the current NBA model in that he is going to give the go-ahead on a sudden shift to high volume three-point shooting. pop prefers to make the other teams have to decrease their three point attempts and turn the game into as much of a mid-range contest as possible.
very nice outlook.. just missing Spurs signing Tony for a vet deal tbh
So you think White will play fewer minutes next season? I'd be honestly interested in how many minutes you think White and Murray will average. Numbers, please.
Admittedly, Murray is the biggest question mark heading into next season. So much of how the season will unfold will rest upon Murray's jumper. If it's improved, that changes a lot. If it's really improved, that changes even more.
Then again, even if Murray's jumper isn't improved, Pop will try to implement the faster paced offense he talked about prior to Murray's injury. And the improvement of White's jumper will be a factor. Oh, plus DeRozan will supposedly be asked to shoot more, too. Lots of moving parts so I wouldn't bury the Murray, White, DeRozan trio just yet.
It's early to be assuming much about next season but just based off of Pop's continued praise for Murray and how he has continually stressed how big a part of the team he was projected to be, I'd be really surprised if he averaged ~22 minutes per game next season.
You speak of two offseasons ago but just look at last summer. Gay played well his first year in SA, showed athleticism after the achilles tear and still only got a one-year, $10 million contract from the Spurs. What changed that a year older version of Gay is going to suddenly command four times that amount?
And contending-wise, the Spurs appear to be in a better spot right now compared to the housefire that was raging last summer. If Gay was going to pull a David West, it would have been last offseason.
Who do you consider a top-level free agent? Durant? Who else?
Maybe Spurs can package their fringe expiring players for some kind of a bad 2-year contract and an asset, pick or young player, to facilitate rebuild after LMA and DDR. Something like a trade of Belli and Bertans for James Johnson or Dion Waiters with MIA or Cody Zeller with CHA, if they want to clear their payroll for 2021. We can also get Minny out of Dieng contract and give them cap space for 3rd star, assuming they get out of RoCo contract later, which looks pretty easy.
Anyway, this type of move doesn't affect the Spurs next year, as Belli and Davis are easily replaceable, but may help tremendously come rebuild time.
I think he’s saying GS looms large. If KD goes (at a minimum, not including Klay too which is possible) that is what changed from last year. A real need for GS to play a role on a team with possibly Curry/Klay/Draymond and win a le. I think Gay loves sa and personally (not verified) think he turned down money to stay one more year because he thought DeRozan (his buddy) was going to make a difference (how much he knew about the possibility of that trade is unknown, but he at least had to know SA was going to get something for Kawhi which means a good chance to go past the first round - and he was was right as SA very well could have gone to the 2nd round).
Kemba. Middleton. Kyrie. Possibly Julius Randle. Al Horford possibly.Who do you consider a top-level free agent? Durant? Who else?
I know signing or trading for a PG seems nuts, but if you can swap DeRozan for a better guard that can shoot 3s maybe sliding Murray/Lonnie/White to the 2/3 then opening up minutes for the 2/3 via the draft is a possibility.
But as unlikely as it is, I have no doubt that if SA got Middleton they would be contenders in the West if KD leave GS. Not favorites. But right in the jumbled up mess.
Is it worth giving up White/Murray/Lonnie? Probably not. But then again, why get a win-now player if you would just be gun shy about winning now and what that takes?
Spurs ain't gon do . Let's hope they draft 2 good wings and sign a 3-and-D SF with the MLE and extend Gay on a reasonable deal
this would be the ideal scenario
The Warriors definitely loom as a threat for Gay. He's effectively a homeless man's Durant and they supposedly had previous interest as an Iguodala fallback 2 off seasons ago.
It's easy to see how he could be seduced too: The lure of championship contention (though their days of actually winning it will likely be over), starting and playing his preferred SF (though he'd still eat a lot of backup PF minutes) and being in the spotlight.
I could easily see the Spurs having to overpay or at least pay more than they prefer in an attempt to fend them off.
If they lose him, they might as well trade DeRozan (I'd do that anyway, but I digress) and at the very least have a discussion with Aldridge. There's no realistic means with which to replace him and he fills such a vital role that their dreams of being "compe ive" (aka a treadmill team) would be dashed.
If he's re-signed, then yeah, it's straightforward. As I've said ad nauseam, unless whoever they'd covet unexpectedly falls to 19, I could see them aggressively trying to move up in the draft by combining the 1sts + possibly Forbes.
Short of that, I'd expect 19 to be some sort of big wing/PF. If it's a more readymade type, they'll fill the Cunningham role immediately. If it's a project, they'll be scouring the bargain bin (I could see Deng; Johnson will probably want a situation with a more clear path to minutes) again.
If it's draft and/or bargain bin to shore up deep bench on the wings, then Milutinov for a portion of the MLE would make sense to complete the off season.
One thing to remember is that the Spurs want (need) to win a certain amount even if they're actually rebuilding. It's the "small but spoiled" market phenomenon.
In that case, you need win now players to get you through rebuilding even if the realistic goal is not a championship.
A lot of us think it's a binary choice -- either win it all now or tank/rebuild with no vets and only youngsters.
The people who have to run this as a money-making business may see it differently.
-Re-sign Rudy to a 1 or 2 years deal.
-Sign a veteran 3 and D 6'8", or higher, guy with the MLE.
-Draft the players with the most upside regardless of position.
That's it.
As long as the contract doesn't go over 2 years, overpaying for Gay shouldn't be seen as an issue.
Last edited by DAF86; 05-08-2019 at 05:54 PM.
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