LSE study of the last 50 years of tax policy: keeping taxes low on the rich doesn't boost the economy, it just increases inequality

[baseline bum]

You will never change him no matter how you try. He hates and is angrily jealous of success.

So now even a flat tax would be class warfare against the rich?

[CosmicCowboy]

So now even a flat tax would be class warfare against the rich?

I didn't say that. It would certainly save me a load on accounting fees. I still think the problem is that people don't seem to understand the difference between wealth and income. Musk and Bezos may own billions of tesla and amazon stock but its just a bunch of paper until they sell that stock and get income to be taxed.

[Adam Lambert]

You will never change him no matter how you try. He hates and is angrily jealous of success.

Its already progressive. The top 5% pay 58% of federal taxes and the bottom 50% pay zero. I get it that you want more free from the federal government by taxing people higher that make more than you.

Why are so many supposedly wealthy people so insecure about it?

"Jealousy" this, "free " that. You act like it's so hard for you to make another $25K next year and the poor (most of whom work three times as hard as you on an average day and will be lucky to increase their income by even $1K next year) just want to freeload off your hard-earned investment income.

Until every next dollar earned is the same difficulty factor regardless of wealth or income (and we're nowhere near that point, nor should we be), there's really no merit to claims that progressive taxes punish the rich.

[CosmicCowboy]

Why are so many supposedly wealthy people so insecure about it?

"Jealousy" this, "free " that. You act like it's so hard for you to make another $25K next year and the poor (most of whom work three times as hard as you on an average day and will be lucky to increase their income by even $1K next year) just want to freeload off your hard-earned investment income.

Until every next dollar earned is the same difficulty factor regardless of wealth or income (and we're nowhere near that point, nor should we be), there's really no merit to claims that progressive taxes punish the rich.

I have no problem with progressive taxation on new income. However, when after tax dollars are then saved and invested and the investment grows in value it shouldn't be taxed at ordinary income rates when it is sold, especially when the gain is not indexed for inflation.

[Adam Lambert]

I have no problem with progressive taxation on new income. However, when after tax dollars are then saved and invested and the investment grows in value it shouldn't be taxed at ordinary income rates when it is sold, especially when the gain is not indexed for inflation.

I agree they shouldn't be taxed at ordinary rates. They should be taxed at higher rates. It's passive income and it does less good for the overall economy.

We are an investment economy now instead of a producer, and that's because we disproportionately incentivize investment. I have no problem taxing on the way in and on the way out. It's still new income and it's the easiest income by far to earn outside of inheritance.

I'd rather lower taxes on all of the CEOs' multi-million dollar salaries and bonuses than give any kind of break to even the lowliest of renters and day traders.

[CosmicCowboy]

I agree they shouldn't be taxed at ordinary rates. They should be taxed at higher rates. It's passive income and it does less good for the overall economy.

We are an investment economy now instead of a producer, and that's because we disproportionately incentivize investment. I have no problem taxing on the way in and on the way out. It's still new income and it's the easiest income by far to earn outside of inheritance.

I'd rather lower taxes on all of the CEOs' multi-million dollar salaries and bonuses than give any kind of break to even the lowliest of renters and day traders.

You have lost your ing mind. Investments aren't guarantees. There is always risk. Follow your plan and the risk/reward kills innovation investment. Might as well just blow your savings on hookers and blow.

[Adam Lambert]

You have lost your ing mind. Investments aren't guarantees. There is always risk. Follow your plan and the risk/reward kills innovation investment. Might as well just blow your savings on hookers and blow.

If you lose on an investment your tax rate is zero on that investment. The risk is exactly the same regardless of the tax rate.

But I don't see any reason we have to treat innovation investment the same as stock/property earnings and I'm sure our creative tax reform lobbyists can find a way to still encourage innovation in the new plan.

[DMC]

People who spend their careers lauding "soft skills" complaining about not contributing.

Income is income. Who gives a if it helps the hippie commune?

[Winehole23]

You will never change him no matter how you try. He hates and is angrily jealous of success.

it’s not personal.

Our legislators let wealthy donors and special interests write rules that benefit them disproportionally and hollow out investment in public goods — it’s legalized corruption. I’m just asking that the field be more level for those who don’t happen to be rich and well connected. That’s not resentment, it’s fairness.

[DMC]

it’s not personal.

Our legislators let wealthy donors and special interests write rules that benefit them disproportionally and hollow out investment in public goods — it’s legalized corruption. I’m just asking that the field be more level for those who don’t happen to be rich and well connected. That’s not resentment, it’s fairness.

Thanks Karl.

[Winehole23]

Tax reform isn’t Marxist-Leninism, Herr Hoppe.

[Winehole23]

Its already progressive. The top 5% pay 58% of federal taxes and the bottom 50% pay zero. I get it that you want more free from the federal government by taxing people higher that make more than you.

The first governments were basically granaries with an army. To keep the productive power of the country from dying.

Didn't Pharoah task Joseph with something similar?

[Winehole23]

Seriously, wtf is government for?

[Winehole23]

To coddle powerful and successful people and on everyone else?

[Winehole23]

To coddle powerful and successful people and on everyone else?

That's the 50 year trend in the US, tbh.

[Winehole23]

[Winehole23]

HBS study: the US failed, during the longest economic expansion on record, to invest in public goods, reform structural weaknesses or make the US more compe ive. Also, the two major political parties left the people behind.

https://www.hbs.edu/compe iveness/...squandered.pdf

[Winehole23]

billionaires do not work millions of times harder than you do, they just have more employees to steal from, and more money that makes money while they sleep.

[Winehole23]

[Winehole23]

[Winehole23]

ARe you arguing the an rust laws and their application is an overthrow? They are literally talking about dismantling oligarchy.

I can see how using political power to prioritize public goods in the national interest might look like a revolution to DMC. It isn't and it needn't be. He's ting his pants over commonplaces of political reform *not necessarily favorable* to short term profit.

My argument is that state support of certain public goods is good not only for the public, but for industrial compe iveness and productivity.

You're arguing for more than more taxation. You're arguing for an overthrow.

DMC seems to think shifting money off the throne of power and putting the public interest there is VIOLENT REVOLT AND OVERTHROW.

[Winehole23]

Karl Marx wasn't a tax reformer.

[Winehole23]

[Winehole23]

The trends reflected in the linked graphs did not occur in a state of nature, there was a political and legal context that enabled it all. The pendulum swung too far in favor of money and owners.

[CosmicCowboy]

If the warehouse worker doesn't like working at amazon he should work somewhere else. If he doesn't have the skill to work somewhere else he might want to question the mul ude of choices he has made since getting spit out of his mamas cooch.