Lebron James you are not and will never be the closer Kobe and MJ are

[in2deep]

Are we talking about this season? because this season:

1. Lebron
2. Wade
3. Kobe

Careerwise of players playing today:
1. Duncan
2. Shaq
3. Kobe

AllTime, just take my word that Kobe is NOT in the top 5. Jordan is

[Cry Havoc]

yea because thats the ONLY era you guys have. and what makes you think laker fans arent proud of kobe's era? hes a straight up killer and you know it. its re ed how so many of you guys hate on kobe. you can hate him all you want because hes a great player on a rival team. i understand that, but show some respect for his basketball skills.

Kobe is a great player. So why don't you make a thread about it, instead about how Lakers fans would rather have Shawn Bradley on the court to finish a game instead of LeBron? LAKERS fans started this thread and have stoked the fire by attempting to compare him to the GOAT. I suggest you ask them to stop creating inane threads like this instead of blaming every other fan on this board for the incessant Kobe hate. The fact that you Lakers fans perceive it as hate is exemplary of what I'm talking about.

"Kobe is a great player, one of the best in the league for a long time, but he isn't as good as MJ." - NBA fan not from L.A.

"OMG STOP UR HATIN ON KOBE U NO NUTHING R U 12 I BET U DONT EVEN KNOW WUT MJ LOOKS LIKE SO U SUK" - random Lakers fan.

[JoeTait75]

Dare I say Lebron's been unclutch? How many more missed clutch free throws is he going to miss? How many more clutch shots going clang?

You can dare say it all you want. But you don't know what you're talking about, because your take is based on

a.) snippets of individual games, tiny sample sizes from the whole,

b.) your pre-conceived prejudices about who LeBron James is, and what he's about, and

c.) the typical, rampant LakeShow Fan insecurity when it comes to LBJ.

So you can talk all you want about how "unclutch" LeBron James is. And that's all it is. Talk. Based on three things that have nothing to do with the reality of this man's career and what he's done.

See, I've watched just about every game LBJ has played since he's been in the league- which I doubt you have, Allanon. I've seen him make plays on offense, on defense, shooting, passing, rebounding, to win games for his team. I've seen him bring a dead franchise back to life practically single-handedly. I've seen him take a team to the NBA Finals that had no business being there. I've seen him completely shut down by a 66-win team that was spectacular on defense, and did he shrink? Did he point fingers? Did he whine? No. He kept attacking, and he took a great team down to the final minute of a road Game 7 when NONE of his teammates (except Delonte West) even bothered to show up.

As Tim Duncan pointed out after the 2007 Finals, LeBron ALWAYS takes responsibility. That's not what a choker does. A choker lays blame and looks for an easy way out. And yeah, LeBron got punked in those Finals. But he NEVER gave up. He went down swinging, like a man.

So you can say what you want about LeBron. But it's ignorance you spew, and it will be called out.

And the whining about "Kobe haters" is hilarious. Who the always starts these threads? Cavaliers fans?

[baseline bum]

The only thing Kobe has on Jordan is the jump shot. Jordan's the far better defender, the better leader, is way more physical, he's the far better penetrator, he's more athletic, more creative, and never took games off. Saying Kobe Bryant is close to Jordan because he has good stats is like saying Patrick Ewing is almost as good as Kareem.

[Rogue]

Kobe is a great player but he is different from Jordan, what makes them different is kobe's love for .

[Phillip]

kobe is gay

[Allanon]

You can dare say it all you want. But you don't know what you're talking about, because your take is based on

a.) snippets of individual games, tiny sample sizes from the whole,

b.) your pre-conceived prejudices about who LeBron James is, and what he's about, and

c.) the typical, rampant LakeShow Fan insecurity when it comes to LBJ.

So you can talk all you want about how "unclutch" LeBron James is. And that's all it is. Talk. Based on three things that have nothing to do with the reality of this man's career and what he's done.

See, I've watched just about every game LBJ has played since he's been in the league- which I doubt you have, Allanon. I've seen him make plays on offense, on defense, shooting, passing, rebounding, to win games for his team. I've seen him bring a dead franchise back to life practically single-handedly. I've seen him take a team to the NBA Finals that had no business being there. I've seen him completely shut down by a 66-win team that was spectacular on defense, and did he shrink? Did he point fingers? Did he whine? No. He kept attacking, and he took a great team down to the final minute of a road Game 7 when NONE of his teammates (except Delonte West) even bothered to show up.

As Tim Duncan pointed out after the 2007 Finals, LeBron ALWAYS takes responsibility. That's not what a choker does. A choker lays blame and looks for an easy way out. And yeah, LeBron got punked in those Finals. But he NEVER gave up. He went down swinging, like a man.

So you can say what you want about LeBron. But it's ignorance you spew, and it will be called out.

And the whining about "Kobe haters" is hilarious. Who the always starts these threads? Cavaliers fans?

LeBron has been great things, I'm not a LeBron hater. He's right there with Kobe, just hasn't proven that he can win a game in the final minute yet.

Jeff Van Gundy loves LeBron, and even he doesn't think LeBron is clutch.

I'm saying LeBron hasn't been clutch, and until he is, we won't know the course of his career. Just another thing he needs to improve on, the next step in his legacy.

Serious homerism if you think LeBron's a clutch player right now. Don't be so defensive, players have flaws. You've seen his stats, was that 3 of 22 on game winners?

Just like Kobe was a brilliant player but never a good teammate. He's finally gotten it at age 30.

Just the facts, take it as an attack on LeBron if you like, but it's not.

[JoeTait75]

LeBron has been great things, I'm not a LeBron hater. He's right there with Kobe, just hasn't proven that he can win a game in the final minute yet.

Jeff Van Gundy loves LeBron, and even he doesn't think LeBron is clutch.

I'm saying LeBron hasn't been clutch, and until he is, we won't know the course of his career. Just another thing he needs to improve on, the next step in his legacy.

Serious homerism if you think LeBron's a clutch player right now. Don't be so defensive, players have flaws. You've seen his stats, was that 3 of 22 on game winners?

Just like Kobe was a brilliant player but never a good teammate. He's finally gotten it at age 30.

Just the facts, take it as an attack on LeBron if you like, but it's not.

LeBron James has taken 8,976 shots in his career. It's ridiculous to make hard-and-fast judgements based on 22 of those 8,976. Flat-out.

And if JVG doesn't think he's clutch, well then, I guess JVG doesn't know what he's talking about either.

[Cry Havoc]

LeBron has been great things, I'm not a LeBron hater. He's right there with Kobe, just hasn't proven that he can win a game in the final minute yet.

Jeff Van Gundy loves LeBron, and even he doesn't think LeBron is clutch.

I'm saying LeBron hasn't been clutch, and until he is, we won't know the course of his career. Just another thing he needs to improve on, the next step in his legacy.

Serious homerism if you think LeBron's a clutch player right now. Don't be so defensive, players have flaws. You've seen his stats, was that 3 of 22 on game winners?

Just like Kobe was a brilliant player but never a good teammate. He's finally gotten it at age 30.

Just the facts, take it as an attack on LeBron if you like, but it's not.

le of the thread.

[Allanon]

LeBron James has taken 8,976 shots in his career. It's ridiculous to make hard-and-fast judgements based on 22 of those 8,976. Flat-out.

And if JVG doesn't think he's clutch, well then, I guess JVG doesn't know what he's talking about either.

It's not hard and fast, I'm saying his career so far. He just hasn't been clutch. Alot of this has to do with the fact that his go to move is a dunk. He then gets fouled and misses the free throws. This hasn't changed.

Even as recent as the game against the Bulls. Kobe had hit 2 game winning shots in a row (Indiana, Houston) and a possible 3rd in San Antonio (before Mason screwed it all).

LeBron gets his chance again versus the Bulls and doesn't deliver.

Can he be clutch, can he get better, can he be better than Kobe, can he be the best player ever?

Yes to all of them, but he isn't right now.

[Allanon]

le of the thread.

Wasn't me, I like LeBron but I ain't giving him a pass. Just like I didn't give Kobe a pass on being a ballhog or a a few years ago.

, I even had a Kobe/LeBron/Duncan sig last year.

[JoeTait75]

It's not hard and fast, I'm saying his career so far. He just hasn't been clutch. Alot of this has to do with the fact that his go to move is a dunk. He then gets fouled and misses the free throws. This hasn't changed.

Even as recent as the game against the Bulls. Kobe had hit 2 game winning shots in a row (Indiana, Houston) and a possible 3rd in San Antonio (before Mason screwed it all).

LeBron gets his chance again versus the Bulls and doesn't deliver.

Can he be clutch, can he get better, can he be better than Kobe, can he be the best player ever?

Yes to all of them, but he isn't right now.

Well, he closed pretty well tonight. 14 points in the fourth quarter of a must-win against the Hornets. We didn't want to carry a two-game slide into L.A. The difference between tonight and Thursday? The jumpers were falling.

Allanon, I'm not saying LeBron doesn't have holes in his game. I don't think he's ever going to be a consistent shooter on the level of Kobe. There are times when he pounds the ball and the offense grinds to a halt. He needs to work on his game at the free-throw line and develop some post moves to take advantage of his size and strength. He isn't perfect, I know this.

But what some see as a lack of clutch ability, I see as simply a manifestation of his streaky shooting. There are nights like tonight when they fall, and nights like Thursday when they don't. Nights like Thursday get more attention, because nights like tonight are expected out of him. He's supposed to come up large, it's the baseline for him. Kobe hits more game-winning shots not because Kobe is "more clutch" but simply because he's a superior jump-shooter to LeBron.

People read way too much into things. To me, it's a simple matter of execution and skill. Nothing intangible about it.

[Cry Havoc]

This thread should be bumped every time LeBron has a great 4th quarter or closes a game.

[LA24]

Kobe.

[mogrovejo]

In the last 5 minutes of close games, LeBron James:

* Scores more than Kobe
* Shoots a higher percentage than Kobe
* Is more efficient than Kobe
* Rebounds more than Kobe
* Gets more assists than Kobe
* Gets more blocks than Kobe
* Gets more steals than Kobe

[DPG21920]

3-12

[resistanze]

This thread should be bumped every time LeBron has a great 4th quarter or closes a game.

This thread should be bumped whenever Kobe "wets the bed" in the 4th quarter too, I suppose.

[DAF86]

For a "closer", Kobe sure did suck tonight in the 4th Q. He went for what... 1 for 10/11 in the last period?

What would you know, everybody misses in the clutch sometimes.

[LA24]

To be fair, Kobe was on a hot streak the last 10 games or so. He deserves a bad game every once in a while.

[DAF86]

To be fair, Kobe was on a hot streak the last 10 games or so. He deserves a bad game every once in a while.

James also deserve it. I've seen him take over in the clutch millions of times, specially in the playoffs.

[LA24]

James also deserve it. I've seen him take over in the clutch millions of times, specially in the playoffs.

I have nothing against Lebron. Too bad Laker fans have to make stupid threads like this and make the rest of the Laker fans eat crow.

[Cry Havoc]

I have nothing against Lebron. Too bad Laker fans have to make stupid threads like this and make the rest of the Laker fans eat crow.

We don't hold it against the good ones, no worries. Not sure if you've been around ST long, but you should see what happens when the Suns get rolling. There are like 3 decent Suns posters and the rest are just.... well.... like this thread, except with no grammar or punctuation. I feel bad for Xylus, as he must feel relatively alone here.

[Ice009]

I have nothing against Lebron. Too bad Laker fans have to make stupid threads like this and make the rest of the Laker fans eat crow.

Fair enough. I did not like this thread at all. Kobe is not superior to Lebron James in crunch time.

Is Kobe even good as Jordan in crunch time to be mentioning him next to MJ?

[Cry Havoc]

Bump.

0:00 LeBron James makes 19-foot two point shot 106-105
0:00 End of the 4th Quarter
0:00 End Game

LeBron cannot close games.

[Kobe™]

House, your thread making pass has been revoked until further notice.