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  1. #226
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Even though the Spurs renounced Horry last summer, they will have early Bird rights to him next summer. Whottt will verfy this as I am leaving for SA now.
    link

  2. #227
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    YYou gave me and said I didn't know what I was talking about when I talked about using his early bird rights this summer....You alluded to the fact that they renounced his rights last summer when they opted out of the second year of his deal...
    That was when you were arguing Horry's deal was for more than the minimum the first year. I informed you he was renounced and suggested you find out what that means -- in that case it meant the Spurs could only offer Horry a minimum contract. You didn't and wrongly concluded that the renouncing meant no early Bird rights in the summer of 05. I again suggested you do a bit of reading since that is not the case. You still haven't.

  3. #228
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    And here's what I said originally, bag:

    http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthre...ly+bird+rights

    We didn't have anything but the minimum to sign him with for this year....it's a 2 year deal...and since it's not his first year with the team I suggest you go study the salary cap FAQ. Furthermore a 2 year deal pays better in the second year than two 1 year deals with a renouncemnt of rights will......go study it, or not only will you get owned on talent evaluations...you will get owned on the salary cap, my weakest area.

    And finally...I advocated showing interest in Horry and making Bowen like commitments beyond this season...that may not show up in the initial year...he does have a player option you notice? And we will have his early bird rights next season...So you don't know what was promised or what changed that situation...

    But obviously a 2 year deal means that they did make concessions to Horry over a standard vet min contract, which is my ultimate point..the degree of those concessions won't be known until next year...

    to which you responded:


    Horry was renounced last summer. You run along and learn what that means.

    And now you totally contradict yourself....I generally considered you to be more knowledgable on the subject of the cap than myself...I think it's pretty obvious I need to reconsider that....

  4. #229
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    See above -- one step ahead of you. I didn't spoon feed you what renouncing actually means because I wanted to see if you'd actually look. All you did was continue with your ignorance. Congratulations.

  5. #230
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    That was when you were arguing Horry's deal was for more than the minimum the first year. I informed you he was renounced and suggested you find out what that means -- in that case it meant the Spurs could only offer Horry a minimum contract. You didn't and wrongly concluded that the renouncing meant no early Bird rights in the summer of 05. I again suggested you do a bit of reading since that is not the case. You still haven't.


    Then I suggest you take your own advice and run along and find out what renounce means....

  6. #231
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    More like a lame attempt to cover your own ass...Who do you think you are fooling...

  7. #232
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    I'm not foooling anyone. You're just mixed up about eight times over and still don't know what you are talking about a month later. Just admit you didn't look anything up.

  8. #233
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    Sorry but you using an incorrect term for what the Spurs did in no way explains you making that statment in the context with which it was made...

    If the Spurs did renounce Horry then they no longer have his early bird rights. You said they did...

  9. #234
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    If the Spurs did renounce Horry then they no longer have his early bird rights. You said they did...
    No I didn't. That was the conlusion to which your ignorance led you. If you had looked it up like a suggested you wouldn't still be going on like this.

  10. #235
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Sorry but you using an incorrect term for what the Spurs did
    What term? The term used in the actual CBA? Take it up with them.

  11. #236
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    [Final Jeopardy music plays while whottt googles "NBA collective bargaining agreement"]

  12. #237
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    30. What does renouncing a player mean?
    As detailed in question number 27, free agents continue to count toward team salary. By renouncing a player, a team gives up its right until the following June 30 to use the Larry Bird, Early Bird, or Non-Bird exceptions (see question number 16) to re-sign that player. A renounced player no longer counts toward team salary, so teams use renouncement to gain additional cap room. After renouncing a player, the team is still permitted to re-sign that player (the previous CBA prevented teams from re-signing a renounced player until 55 days into the regular season), but they must either have enough cap room to fit the salary, or sign the player without using one of the three "Bird" exceptions.

    For example, in August 1999 Charles Oakley was renounced by the Toronto Raptors. Had they not renounced him, the Raptors could have re-signed Oakley for any amount up to the maximum $14 million using the Larry Bird exception. Following the renouncement, they were only allowed to give him up to the $6 million they had available under the cap.

    After renouncing a player, a team can still trade the player in a sign-and-trade agreement (see question number 69).

    Horry was renounced last summer. You run along and learn what that means.




    We'll have his early Bird rights this summer.


    Go back and read it. I told you then what I am telling you now -- we'll have early Bird rights on Horry this summer.

    Then apologize.

    Maybe it's just that you don't speak ing English...but I am enjoying watching your excuses become more and more incomprehensible.


    Since I already thought we had his early bird rights...your ing original statement is stupid...


    And if Horry retires this year...he makes 2.3 million...is that a minimum contract?

  13. #238
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Hilarious. You read it, copied and pasted it and you still didn't get it.

    Your dumbass was arguing that Horry was getting something more than a minimum contract as defined by the CBA. I informed his rights were renounced. Had you stopped right there and educated yourself instead of waiting an entire month with your thumb up your ass, you wouldn't have lived with your next ignorant assumption that the Spurs would not have early Bird rights on Horry after this season.

    I merely told you to find out what renouncing means. You have no quote of mine saying the Spurs wouldn't have early Bird rights this summer. Admit it.

  14. #239
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Since I already thought we had his early bird rights...your ing original statement is stupid...
    Nope. My mere statement that he was renounced made you think the Spurs wouldn't have any rights this summer. I'm flattered I have such power over you.
    And if Horry retires this year...he makes 2.3 million...is that a minimum contract?
    Since the contract was signed using the minimum contract exception, absolutely. If you can find another name for it in the CBA, link it now.

  15. #240
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    Hilarious. You read it, copied and pasted it and you still didn't get it.

    Your dumbass was arguing that Horry was getting something more than a minimum contract as defined by the CBA. I informed his rights were renounced. Had you stopped right there and educated yourself instead of waiting an entire month with your thumb up your ass, you wouldn't have lived with your next ignorant assumption that the Spurs would not have early Bird rights on Horry after this season.

    I merely told you to find out what renouncing means. You have no quote of mine saying the Spurs wouldn't have early Bird rights this summer. Admit it.
    #1.I was never arguing anything as defined by the CBA...wink wink deals aren't allowed by the CBA now are they? Horry is covered to make more than the mimimum if he chooses...either he can retire or he can opt out and resign...which do you think he's going to do?

    Do you think he's still going to be getting the minimum next season?

    #2. It's you that doesn't get it...sadly.

    Bottom line...we do have Horry's bird rights, as I originally thought.
    Bottom line...the deal we gave Horry was the maximum we could give him at the time.
    Bottom line...their renunciation of his rights has no ing relevance to anything. You alluded that it did...it doesn't.

  16. #241
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    It's hilariousm I said you would verify the Spurs would have the early Bird rights in my absence because I made the silly assumption you actually looked it up. I apologize for thinking you were even that intelligent.

  17. #242
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    And I apologize for thinking you made a relevant point...The only lack of intelligence I exhibited was giving you credit for making one. It won't happen again...

    Grunting, twisting, obtuseness and vagueness are your only definable character traits. I should have known...

  18. #243
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Bottom line...we do have Horry's bird rights, as I originally thought.
    Then changed your mind when I posted what to you was a magic word.
    Bottom line...the deal we gave Horry was the maximum we could give him at the time.
    Which was the minimum, as dictated by the fact he was renounced, you disputed he was even renounced.
    Bottom line...their renunciation of his rights has no ing relevance to anything. You alluded that it did...it doesn't.
    See above. You drew the wrong conclusion that it also affected his early Bird rights this summer.

    See what you learned?

    See what you could've learned a month ago?

    Bravo.

  19. #244
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    Then changed your mind when I posted the magic word.
    Since the only discernable relevance that point could have had was concerning his early bird rights, you ing ...you are right I did..like I said...I gave you more credit then you deserved. It won't happen again...even when it comes to the salary cap...my admittedly weakest area of basketball knowledge.



    Which was the minimum, as dictated by the fact he was renounced.See above. You drew the wrong conclusion that it also affected his early Bird rights this summer.
    Well damn you ing ...what was the ing point of making that statment....I knew the Spurs opted out of his old deal for 5 mil per season...

    See what you learned?

    See what you could've learned a month ago?

    Bravo.
    Yawn...STFU. You think you can have more luck on a weak area of mine?

    Again I repeat...my original belief was accurate...we did have his early bird rights, and you don't know what was promised next season...the fact that he can opt out or retire with a extra pay means something no matter how you slice it.

    So you stated nothing of relevance...and I never claimed to be cap expert, ever, under any cir stances, nor it a major goal of mine to become one...

    But I do now feel secure that I have a greater knowledge of it than you do...without ever studying it...period....because I know when something is relevant or isn't.

    You OTOH need to pull your head out of the ing cap and learn what a good player is by looking at something more than PPG.
    Last edited by whottt; 05-09-2005 at 08:59 PM.

  20. #245
    The OL' Perfessor wildbill2u's Avatar
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    Barry gets props from Pop and others for playing good defense on Allen and Lewis. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

    Great stat line for a bench player, even though he's starting.

    I had to find this thread and bring it back to life. How say you now, Barry bashers?

  21. #246
    Believe. ctpsb's Avatar
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    I'll throw my two cents' worth in here. As much as Barry's shooting woes frustrate me, he seems to be doing what the team needs him to do to keep winning. Example: Many observers including Barkley were saying the Spurs had to start Manu because of Rashard Lewis. Well Barry still started, Lewis has been contained and Manu can still come off the bench. Second Barry has actually been OK defensively on Ray Ray just like he was on Melo. Also it seems Barry comes down with some otherwise tough rebounds. However he really does need to pick it up on the shooting end (though he's had some nice finishes on the break).

    Any thougths out there?

  22. #247
    Mahinmi in ? picnroll's Avatar
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    Doesn't the Horry, Bird rights, CBA argument deserve it's own mind numbing thread?

    by the way whottt Barry's wife is getting jealous.

  23. #248
    Spurs Homer. D'oh! MadDog73's Avatar
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    Question:

    Does anybody here still think Barry sucks? I don't.

    So, what are we arguing about again?

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