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  1. #226
    Scrumtrulescent
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    State and federal officials continue combing through 14.9 acres surrounding the blast site, likening the investigation to an “archaeological dig,” and hope to determine the cause by May 10.

  2. #227
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    My insurance company sends an inspector around every year to inspect the premises and discuss safety programs. If he sees anything he doesn't like we discuss it and I fix it. I have no problem with that. What I do have a problem with is OSHA coming in and finding some nit-picky little thing and fining me. I think it is absolutely impossible to have a clean OSHA inspection. The rules are just too vast and chicken . You have a commercial national brand hand cleaner in the bathroom for your employees to use? Better have an MSDS on file. I got popped for $500 on that one once.
    I would agree.

    The problem is that the company in question didn't have enough insurance to begin with, if our Insurance Commissioner is to be believed. (her remarks to that effect are floating around somewhere)

    If you rely on that, what if the amount of the policy is too low for a company to bother with sending inspectors?

    I would think it would have to be a mix between private and government efforts.

  3. #228
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    Yes, if an insurance company signs off on a business, that should be good. They have a vested interest for things not to go wrong.
    if the policy payout is low and/or capped, a pro forma amount to meet some requirement for insurance totally unrelated to the risks, the insurance company doesn't GAF about inspection. Like if you borrow $1000, your banker doesn't GAF. If you borrow $10M, he's your friend.

  4. #229
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    I would agree.

    The problem is that the company in question didn't have enough insurance to begin with, if our Insurance Commissioner is to be believed. (her remarks to that effect are floating around somewhere)

    If you rely on that, what if the amount of the policy is too low for a company to bother with sending inspectors?

    I would think it would have to be a mix between private and government efforts.
    What is enough insurance?

    Last year, my ex wife was a pedestrian and hit by a car. Broke her ankle, they put steel plates in both her fibula and tibia. Last week, they took the plates back out because they bothered the out of her, and she couldn't walk right. It's to bee seen if she will ever walk right again. Even though the driver has a $250,000 coverage, she had to go though a lawyer to money to pay for the seriously large medical bills and lost wages to date. Still not settled.

    The minimum $50k policy would cover this injury.

    It happens all the time. People and businesses both, often get smaller policies than what may occur.

  5. #230
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    What is enough insurance?

    Last year, my ex wife was a pedestrian and hit by a car. Broke her ankle, they put steel plates in both her fibula and tibia. Last week, they took the plates back out because they bothered the out of her, and she couldn't walk right. It's to bee seen if she will ever walk right again. Even though the driver has a $250,000 coverage, she had to go though a lawyer to money to pay for the seriously large medical bills and lost wages to date. Still not settled.

    The minimum $50k policy would cover this injury.

    It happens all the time. People and businesses both, often get smaller policies than what may occur.
    Right. That's the definition of not having enough insurance.

  6. #231
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    What is enough insurance?

    Last year, my ex wife was a pedestrian and hit by a car. Broke her ankle, they put steel plates in both her fibula and tibia. Last week, they took the plates back out because they bothered the out of her, and she couldn't walk right. It's to bee seen if she will ever walk right again. Even though the driver has a $250,000 coverage, she had to go though a lawyer to money to pay for the seriously large medical bills and lost wages to date. Still not settled.

    The minimum $50k policy would cover this injury.

    It happens all the time. People and businesses both, often get smaller policies than what may occur.
    You determine how much liability coverage one needs based on your net worth.

  7. #232
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    West Fertilizer was insured for only $1 million, a fraction of estimated losses

    “A million dollars is a pathetic amount for this type of dangerous activity,” lawyer Randy C. Roberts said.
    “If you want to drive a truck down the interstate, you’ve got to have $750,000 in coverage, even if you’re just carrying eggs,” Roberts said. “But if you want to put this ammonium nitrate into this town next to that school and that nursing home and those houses, you’re not required to carry insurance.”


    Property damage alone in West could reach $100 million, according to the Insurance Council of Texas, an industry association. The April 17 explosion destroyed an apartment complex and seriously damaged a nursing home and a school. Several hundred homes also sustained damage, with some leveled to the foundation.

    An attorney for United States Fire Insurance Co. of Morristown, N.J., confirmed Friday that West Fertilizer had $1 million in liability coverage “with no excess or umbrella coverage.”

    Fertilizer facilities like the one in West are not required to have liability insurance that would compensate for damage they might cause, state insurance officials say, even if hazardous material is on hand.

    West Fertilizer had reported having 270 tons of ammonium nitrate on site as of the end of last year. Outside experts have said it appears the chemical exploded during a fire on company property.

    The office of state Insurance Commissioner Eleanor Kitzman issued a written statement late Friday saying the Texas Department of Insurance “does not have actual knowledge of the existence of or details regarding any liability insurance coverage” of the West facility.


    http://www.dallasnews.com/news/west-...ted-losses.ece

    another corp taking huge risks, making the $Ms, while Human-Americans pay with their lives and homes.

  8. #233
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    An attorney for United States Fire Insurance Co. of Morristown, N.J., confirmed Friday that West Fertilizer had $1 million in liability coverage “with no excess or umbrella coverage.”

    Fertilizer facilities like the one in West are not required to have liability insurance that would compensate for damage they might cause, state insurance officials say, even if hazardous material is on hand.
    West Fertilizer had reported having 270 tons of ammonium nitrate on site as of the end of last year. Outside experts have said it appears the chemical exploded during a fire on company property.

    The office of state Insurance Commissioner Eleanor Kitzman issued a written statement late Friday saying the Texas Department of Insurance “does not have actual knowledge of the existence of or details regarding any liability insurance coverage” of the West facility.


    http://www.dallasnews.com/news/west-...ted-losses.ece

    another corp taking huge risks, making the $Ms, while Human-Americans pay with their lives and homes.
    That amounts to a subsidy of the company involved.

    The subsidy is paid when Bad Things happen, and is paid for by those who can least afford to pay, quite often with their lives.

    Libertarians find this acceptable.

  9. #234
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    My little chicken company carries 2 and 2.

  10. #235
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    Yeah that low of coverage is BS. I think it's a safe bet that we'll see our state leg come up with some kind of legislation about that.

  11. #236
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    Well, this is weird.


    EMS volunteer arrested on possession of destructive device charge

    http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/forme...206912431.html

  12. #237
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    After Plant Explosion, Texas Remains Wary of Regulation



    Five days after an explosion at a fertilizer plant leveled a wide swath of this town, Gov. Rick Perry tried to woo Illinois business officials by trumpeting his state’s low taxes and limited regulations. Asked about the disaster, Mr. Perry responded that more government intervention and increased spending on safety inspections would not have prevented what has become one of the nation’s worst industrial accidents in decades.

    “Through their elected officials,” he said, Texans “clearly send the message of their comfort with the amount of oversight.”

    This antipathy toward regulations is shared by many residents here. Politicians and economists credit the stance with helping attract jobs and investment to Texas, which has one of the fastest-growing economies in the country, and with winning the state a year-after-year ranking as the nation’s most business friendly.

    Even in West, last month’s devastating blast did little to shake local skepticism of government regulations. Tommy Muska, the mayor, echoed Governor Perry in the view that tougher zoning or fire safety rules would not have saved his town. “Monday morning quarterbacking,” he said.

    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/05/10...?from=homepage

    limiting, destroying govt has real consequences for the 99%, while the 1% pocket all the profits.

  13. #238
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    Well, this is weird.


    EMS volunteer arrested on possession of destructive device charge

    http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/forme...206912431.html
    Yeah, I saw that. Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Wouldn't be the first cop/fireman/ems tried to create a situation they could be a hero in.

  14. #239
    Veteran Th'Pusher's Avatar
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    A white right-wing terrorist if we're lucky, tbh.

  15. #240
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    Texas launches criminal probe into plant explosion

    Texas law enforcement officials on Friday launched a criminal investigation into the massive fertilizer plant explosion that killed 14 people last month.

    Investigators have largely treated the West Fertilizer Co. blast that killed 14 people as an industrial accident, but the Texas Department of Public Safety said in statement that the agency has now instructed the Texas Rangers and the McLennan County
    Sheriff's Department to conduct a criminal probe.

    "This disaster has severely impacted the community of West, and we want to ensure that no stone goes unturned and that all the facts related to this incident are uncovered," DPS Director Steven McCraw said.

    The plant blew up on the night of April 17 after a fire erupted at the facility in the rural town.

    McLennan County Sheriff Parnell McNamara said residents "must have confidence that this incident has been looked at from every angle and professionally handled — they deserve nothing less."

    http://mobile.sfgate.com/sfchron/db_...l=true#display

    probe? aka WHITEWASH!

  16. #241
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    lol simpleton.

  17. #242
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    TB

  18. #243
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    "The Texas Rangers are now assisting the McLennan County Sheriff's Department with a criminal investigation into the cause of the fatal explosion at the West Fertilizer Co. "

    :facepalm

  19. #244
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    "The Texas Rangers are now assisting the McLennan County Sheriff's Department with a criminal investigation into the cause of the fatal explosion at the West Fertilizer Co. "

    :facepalm
    RickyBobby certainly has his grimy, corrupt hands all over the law enforcement lackeys. it will be "An Act Of Our Lord Jesus Christ and Savior", nobody will be held accountable.

  20. #245
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    lol non sequitur theater.

  21. #246
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    TB

  22. #247
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    Victims In Texas Fertilizer Plant Explosion May Still Have To Pay Property Taxes

    West, Texas continues to be rocked by the aftermath of the fertilizer plant explosion last month. Victims are now discovering they may still have to pay property taxes on their destroyed homes. While these homeowners can file protests until the end of May, the law requires property values to be determined on January 1 of the tax year. Local governments are allowed to reappraise homes after natural disasters, but the fertilizer plant explosion was very much a man-made calamity.

    Even the mayor, Tommy Muska, has filed to protest the property value of his home, which is so badly damaged from the blast that it may cost $300,000 to repair. However, the mayor noted, granting victims relief is a “double-edged sword,” as the town will flounder from the millions of lost tax dollars. The magnitude of the explosion, which claimed 15 lives and injured 160 others, also devastated a huge chunk of West’s much-needed revenue for many years to come:

    Hahn estimated that West lost at least $29 million in taxable value as a result of the blast, not counting damage to nontaxable property such as schools, water tanks and infrastructure.

    That amount represents more than one-fifth of West’s tax base of $140.4 million, according to preliminary values. Hahn said losing that much revenue this year would hobble the finances of the city and West Independent School District when they need the money the most.

    Whatever the appraisal district decides, either the victims or the town will take a debilitating hit. Victims cannot count on West Fertilizer Co. for compensation, either. The plant was only insured for $1 million of damages, a negligible sum that does not even begin to cover the actual losses. Property damage alone is projected to reach $100 million. Even so, the company was not required to carry any liability insurance at all. Many states, including Texas, do not impose any legal requirements for companies to have liability insurance. This latest revelation is just one of the myriad regulatory failures that led to the deadly explosion.

    On Friday, the Texas Department of Public Safety and the Texas Rangers launched a criminal investigation into the explosion. Some victims are also pursuing civil lawsuits against the company.


    http://thinkprogress.org/economy/201...roperty-taxes/

  23. #248
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Wow...

    Besides the pipe bombs, he has the makings for thermite.

    link: Complaint Against Bryce Reed

  24. #249
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    Texas Helpless to Prevent Another Fertilizer Plant Explosion

    Given that about 150 Texas businesses similarly house massive amounts of highly explosive fertilizer, Texas fire departments have taken it upon themselves to help prevent a similar disaster from happening again. However, some businesses are refusing to consent to an inspection and — unfortunately — the law is on the businesses’ side.

    Although the precise cause of the West plant’s explosion has still not been determined, that hasn’t dissuaded local fire officials from being proactive in verifying that other such facilities aren’t a danger. Thus far, State Fire Marshal Chris Connealy and staff have tried to examine around 60 businesses with large fertilizer supplies, but nearly 10% of such operations have flat out refused the inspection.

    Connealy expresses concern over the lack of cooperation, but overly generously concedes, “They may have a very good reason.”

    We may never know the businesses’ reasons, however, since they can legally deny entry to the state fire marshal. Shockingly, Texas has no state fire codes, thus preventing officials from making such an inspection. If that doesn’t sound awful enough, Texas actually prohibits 70% of its counties from having fire codes. The wisdom — to use the term lightly — behind that decision is that maintaining fire codes is expensive.

    As Firehouse points out
    , it is mandatory for every motorist to obtain liability insurance, but facilities that house tons of explosive materials like the plant in West are not required to have liability policies. In fact, the only insurance the company had was a basic $1 million policy, hardly sufficient to cover the estimate $135 million in damage.

    If the plants are denying entrance to the fire marshal while waiting for the “proper” authorities to arrive, they better not hold their collective breaths. While there are federal government officials that can legally inspect these plants, a lack of funds prevents such examinations from occurring on even a semi-regular basis.

    If you’ll recall
    , the last time West’s facilities were checked was six years before the blast. Although it was found to have major safety violations, instead of being re-inspected, the business was instead fined $2,300.

    Read more: http://www.care2.com/causes/texas-he...#ixzz2eKOqwfuk



  25. #250
    Watching the collapse benefactor's Avatar
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    Yup...there was some hillbilly on the news here recently that owns a plant that was trying to give all kinds of justification for him not letting the fire marshal on his property. Guess a couple of more neighborhoods will have to be flattened before the good ole boys decide it's important to inspect these places.

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