The Spurs are paying a ton for their front court. It's supposed to be their strength. I explained that to you while you were cowering at GS' advanced stats over the summer. Glad to see you're coming around.
And D-League is supposed to be a "top 3 and D guy" with "all-star level" metrics.
What's happening this year? He can't stop a nosebleed.
I mean, I routinely expect these 1-4, 2-8 nights from him, but the least he could do is not let Bradley Beal go scrotum deep.
Porker wasn't going to let him eat, Diaw had to be put into the starting lineup to make that happen.We were talking about the '14 Finals.
You're almost distilled Spurstalk. Complaining that the back court was marginally outscored was bad enough. But acting like having "one more player" makes any difference at all takes the cake.
Trying to make a hate on Danny shtick is like bragging about your MySpace page. Maybe you think it's become retro or something.
Being outscored by 9 points despite using one more player isn't being "marginally" outscored. It's being blown out. An NBA team with a point differential of -9 would be considered one of the worst teams in history.
My "hate" isn't shtick. I just happen to think Danny's offensive limitations are something that is hurting the team. And I still can't fathom why he didn't work to add that pump fake/jumper I always hammer on about. Again, 4 extra points from Danny via midrange jumpers would be a huge boon. But yeah, yeah. It's not his "role" (even though that addition to his game wouldn't compromise his offensive role at all).
Furthermore, his defense has fallen off this season, as well.
Green was awful tonight, no other way to shake it. However, he is far from the problem; unless Manu and Patty are creating like tonight the Spurs will struggle generating offense with their current guard rotation.
I think Danny had his first game he struggled. He had been playing superb prior to this game.
Pau has had several bad games, a 0 scoring game, a couple of very low scoring games, he's gotten benched already at least 3 times.
LMA was horrendous, absolutely ghastly against the Mavs and he hasn't been exactly dominating as consistently as he should and he came into the season out of shape.
Manu has been extremely unpredictable. He had a flashback game but it's being overlooked how much he had been struggling offensively before.
Pau and LMA together cannot defend the average PnR (never mind elite).
Tony has been extremely streaky as well, and has had some stinkers. However, he's been injured and I find it hard to really criticize him personally, bc I am actually more concerned that he's going to be more brittle than he has previously been and that is a red alarm bc behind him there is only Lapro and Murray... how do you think they are doing?
Kawhi has had his games he has struggled, Simmons can't shoot, Kyle is still hesitant to shoot so we don't even know where the improvements on his shot seemingly went, Bertans can't grab a board, Lee is a C on offense, but plays like a PF on defense, Dedmon still fouls and for some reason gets on Pop's bad side, he has issues at times finishing at the rim as well.
Yea, Danny is not flawless, but neither is everyone else. Guys have roles in the team and he's done his fairly well. He just had a game he struggled. As every player is bound to have games they struggle no one is totally free of criticism. I guess it is fine if you don't like Danny and that is that.
Simmons didn't have an official FGA. But he got to take 6 FT's. And he had an assist, 2 steals, and a block. He got stripped once, heading for the basket, but he hauled ass up the floor and made a great defensive play to make up for it.
I still think he's passing up shots because they want him to work on drive-and-kick. But they need SOME shooting threat from him. If he can come up with even 6-7 points a game from the field, I'd be totally happy with his performance.
There's a part of me that keeps wanting to believe that Manu has just been in a slump, and that he will suddenly kick it into gear and play the way he did tonight. I know it's not realistic to expect, at his age, but it's hard to let go of. Still, when he's playing like this, it's really fun to watch. And he's still dishing out the dimes, and pulling down rebounds at a very respectable clip.
I know a lot of people on ST aren't happy about Lap, but he's getting some really good minutes going against NBA starters. I think if you asked the Spurs' coaching staff, they would say that they're satisfied with where he's at. And the experience he's getting will make the Spurs better overall, at the point.
I don't know how it was prior to 2012-13, but this season there is simply not enough garbage time to get guys experience and what few minutes there have been, there is too many rookies together (also unusual) and Murray needs those minutes too. So, he's had to play minutes in actual games right off the bat and is lacking chemistry. I think he's been fine for rook in that situation so it's good that he's a bit older and more experienced than the traditional rook. Do you think Spurs look for anyone in the buyout market or a trade? I don't think so, specially if they think Nico can make do for those ocassions Tony is sitting.
Cricitism from fans aside, I think Pop is getting exactly what he thought he would get from these guys..
I keep going to just Tony and Manu being old and unreliable. No one is going to make up for that and they are both well compensated.
He had a 2 point game on 1-4 shooting against the Magic. A 3-9 game for 8 points against the Rockets, and only 4 double-digit or more scoring games out of 12.
Danny should average double digits per game and be a threat for 15+ every night. I'll hear "it's not his role!" again for the 1000th time, but the state of the backcourt should necessitate an increased scoring role for him. So it's either: He never developed a useful secondary weapon where Pop would have confidence in increasing his role or Pop neglects him.
Way I see it. Danny should get ten shots per game in his spots. When Danny is on, he'll go something like 18 points on 6-12 shooting, making 5 threes, a two, and maybe an FT or two. But he's not going to have 10 or 12 clean open 3 point looks per game on most nights, so he needs to develop that midrange jumper I've been talking about when he gets closed out on quickly. An "average" Danny game should be 10 points on 4-10ish shooting, with 2 made threes and 2 made twos coming via that jumper.
"Come on. You're nit picking. He's averaging 8.0pgg. What's 2 points?"
2 extra points added to a scoring average is a big plus in the NBA. Imagine if every rotation player added 2 points to their PPG?
There should be no conceivable reason he can't add some kind of secondary option to his repertoire.
Backcourt-
Tony Parker - lost several steps. Still sets up offense well and does his job as a starting PG except for defense which fell off a cliff a couple of seasons ago. But still an average PG wrt rest of league.
Patty Mills - energizer bunny and one of the best sixth-seventh men in the league. Can efficiently run offense, tries hard on defense even if overmatched due to height.
Nicolas Laprovittola - useful backup PG who holds his own and is not a bad backup at all. Has some verve in his game too.
Dejounte Murray - callow, wont play much.
Danny Green - elite defender, among top 3 SG defenders in league (along with Butler who plays SF now, Klay Thompson). And useful 3 and D player. Probably most valuable such 3 & D player in league considering his salary.
Manu Ginobili - Nearly 40, but is there anyone more cannier than him in the league. Still works hard on defense and on a non-off day, is as good as he can get to be as a P&R operator and a bench spark plug.
Jonathon Simmons - Athletic, a key missing piece from last year's playoffs. Still learning his way on how to play in control, but a keeper.
All things considered, the Spurs' backcourt is a nice mix of experience, athleticism and variety (inside and outside games, P&R vs half court, etc). It rates well alongside other good backcourts.
When he's literally the last guy you should be looking to for offense in your starting group it's hard to complain for me about him right now. He scores off actions by others. Sometimes he will go off but as he's a shooter and doesn't get to the line, nor forces things (unless it's a shot clock violation threat), scoring from him is by nature going to be streaky and really depends on others finding him in good spots and defenses being worried more about others than him. He has never been a versatile "scorer," nor is he going to be one. I bet he works at it, but it's not a big asset, nor does he take enough shots of that nature for it to matter. You already have way too many midrange shooters in that group, and not enough guys who are tough nosed on defense. He just struggled in this game, the first one he struggled of like 12 he's played this season. Overall, he's less limited than he used to be. He's capable of moving the ball within the offense. It's simply because you can't look past his flaws or want him to be someone he's not that you get on him.
If he had no flaws, he'd be a top player in the league. I am fine with who he is as a player and appreciate what he brings. If you had better production from your PG it would not matter that much how limited he is on offense. It's Tony's decline (and Lapro being a 3rd string sub) that highlights that.
You're overcomplicating things.
Pump faking a closing defender and taking a midrange shot won't demand any type of overhaul to his game or to the offensive scheme. It merely gives Danny an additional way to score when he's run off the 3 point line.
Instead of doing that he's been setting up others just fine so far. In fact his assists are up.
I'd rather he do a side step dribble if he must and take another three like Mills does sometimes, since he seems to be a shooter that likes to have his feet set and having to dribble IMO is a reason for the lost effectiveness. But there are many things he can do that don't require taking that shot like looking to set someone else up or giving up the ball for a cut... I have accepted it's not a part of his game.
He only plays about 29mpg mid. And he plays those minutes with a top 5 player in the league, two big that pouts and defense struggles if their not involved in the offense...and a PG with a tendency to hero things out even at age 34 and being one of the worst starting PGs in the league.
Their is only so much possessions in a game when you're playing with those set of players. If One of Gasol or Aldridge is out and Parker is not Parker..maybe.
Also, when he does play with the bench Bertans, Mills, Lee are all gunners..guys that are asked to score.
Not enough possession.
I agree and if someone must take a midrange shot you would prefer that shot to come from someone else IMO. There is rarely a need for a Danny midrange unless the shot clock is running out.
Looking into it, Spurs' backcourt isn't that bad if you include Patty and Manu, tbh..probably around 16th-17th in the league, which isn't that bad, considering they've built the team around the frontcourt, have 2 players making virtually nothing compared to their peers(Green and Mills) and gave out 2 loyalty contracts(Parker and Ginobili)..
It won't be good enough to win a le, since every team needs a dynamic PG nowadays, but still..
He's actually giving up possessions, which is my point. Danny should be taking 8 shots per game minimum. When he's like 1-4, he's being run off the 3 point line a lot and forced to give the ball up, resulting in a broken play (since the original call was probably to set up a Danny three ball).
He (or Pop) needs to establish himself more. If scoring remains as unbalanced as it is between the starting frontcourt and the backcourt, opposing teams will just pack. I think this is a primary reason why Kawhi's raw FG% is down, too. People always think I'm slighting Danny, when in fact I believe he can create another gear for himself. And of course Parker is a big reason for this. Him being a weak scoring threat pretty much stalls everything.
I don't see as many plays as you think for Danny... TBH.. its Kiwi w the ball, then LMA, then Pau, then Tony, rinse and repeat.
Sans Patty House, this show of a backcourt rotation is a combined 2-17 for 4 points
Groce....Sans Patty House, this show of a backcourt rotation is a combined 2-17 for 4 points
Worse is that most of their shots tonight specially Ginobili were wide open shots.
If our backcourt cant even produce when opens shots are available...I dont know what to say.
And those shots will be there. Opposing teams will just start packing the inside to contain LMA/Kawhi/Pau because no one fears D-League, Manure, Simmons, Porker burning them.
This is why Pop is despertly killing the Kawhi post ups so he can concentrate on providing perimter scoring and Aldridge and Gasol/Lee frontcourt scoring
I don't see how you can really run any post-oriented offense right now when this backcourt can't shoot, penetrate, nor playmake. For once, I can't put anything on Pop. I have little clue what kind of "system" you can run when your guards are a 34 year old who plays like he's 45, a system spot shooter with zero athleticism, handles, and in-between game, a 60 year old, an ultra raw "monkeyballer," and an undersized PG who plays more like an SG.
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