Preseason Thread: San Antonio Spurs at Detroit Pistons, Wednesday, Oct. 6th, at 6:00PM CST (2:00AM Riga)

[SAGirl]

Ok for starters.

DWhite maybe expendable in my eyes... For his wage to production, I just don't know how he fits. We know KJ is long term, DJ is up there, Primo seems to be. Other then that it's open season. You have to think about things holistically, long term and short term. A point guard that can play pick and roll are a dime a dozen. I think Tre for example could do an admirable job at a fraction of the cost. I value Murray more cause he got that dog in him, and he's good for taking a game over when ever he gets that "chip" on his shoulder. It happens anytime. He also has that heart you want when you are competing at high levels and his leadership is good for the team. He holds everyone accountable even himself.

DW is a great company guy, but to me the wage doesn't justify the production and I feel he would be more valuable to another team then us. Philly actually makes perfect sense in that regard... and not to stir the pot... but it is what it is.

As for that initial lineup. Yes, theoretically, that lineup should work but there were no players who get their own shot and that's where we missed DJ. Even though his shot creation is rugged to put it nicely he can still create a shot. Yes DW can orchestrate better but TP9 proved that in this system you don't have to be a Chris Paul. TP was notoriously bad at that but he was sufficient. You just have to make the right reads and passes. The rest of the lineup was fine as well. McD has great value in this league. He's one of the best players with his skill set in the association. I really love that pickup. KJ needs to develop a post game. He's too big and too strong to rely on bully drives. Get your ass in the post and work on a fade and hook, basic post moves and work from there. No telling where he could be in 5 years. When the game slows down we need something other then pick and roll to draw attention and he is big and strong enough to dominate mismatches at the very least. Another thing is to me Poetl ain't the direction I'd go with a center... I think if you could find a 3&D big that would be ideal... and I know they don't grow on trees but I just feel his skill set is probably the easiest to find and cheap at that. His skillset is just not dynamic enough for this offense and team. He really doesn't offer anything offensively and that just hurts...

Thad, definitely doesn't fit this team but I though Aminu definitely does. I personally liked what I saw. He still looked mobile enough for his age, he's versatile and he can still hit the corner three.

Luka seems to always show just enough to not be discarded imo. I think it's gonna be tough cause Luka's at ude I have no doubt irks Pop. He's kind of an en led brat in that regard. He definitely should of played summer league and I think by him not, it hurt his stock with Pop... He's just that kid who probably will be really good no matter what, it's just he's not likely to do it the "right" way. And that's why I think they let him go and sucky as that sounds. But high character players have had great yields for us and low character players have seemingly always flamed out... (Rodman, Jackson, etc)

But that's about what I took from it. Didn't care about the loss. Pop was obviously pushing buttons and seeing what he has so to speak and a lot of the lineups were pretty experimental.

Thanks for explaining your point. I think I am still behind everyone thinking of fit, a big 3 and such. I am watching just to see who can play and who has game without a star around them.
I think some players don’t even know who they are in the league, who they can be. Maybe they have one or two things they can do well, but need to add more and in adding more there’s going to be some struggle. Either they succeed or fail but it takes time.

Ultimately for me it’s too early to say so and so doesn’t fit. These guys need to develop and there will be some struggle. But I agree with you on DJ. I agree with you he has the dog in him. He’s like Draymond Green in that regard. All teams need guys like that. He doesn’t need to be the most offensively talented guy in the team, but he’s got compe ive desire and is unafraid. Has the balls that Ben Simmons is missing, if not his talent.

I am enjoying watching games like this because it’s time to push buttons, place guys in uncomfortable situations, get them out of their comfort zone and see what sticks.

I don’t care about the final score either. The other game even when they won it was mostly because Utah missed a ton of shots specially early on. Tonight Detroit was on fire. It’s not about that, but seeing what the Spurs have. I still don’t know.

I kind of expect Derrick to get going soon. He can shoot much better than he has been. I am not really concerned about him until his plantar fasciitis acts up.

[raybies]

Thanks for explaining your point. I think I am still behind everyone thinking of fit, a big 3 and such. I am watching just to see who can play and who has game without a star around them.
I think some players don’t even know who they are in the league, who they can be. Maybe they have one or two things they can do well, but need to add more and in adding more there’s going to be some struggle. Either they succeed or fail but it takes time.

Ultimately for me it’s too early to say so and so doesn’t fit. These guys need to develop and there will be some struggle. But I agree with you on DJ. I agree with you he has the dog in him. He’s like Draymond Green in that regard. All teams need guys like that. He doesn’t need to be the most offensively talented guy in the team, but he’s got compe ive desire and is unafraid. Has the balls that Ben Simmons is missing, if not his talent.

I am enjoying watching games like this because it’s time to push buttons, place guys in uncomfortable situations, get them out of their comfort zone and see what sticks.

I don’t care about the final score either. The other game even when they won it was mostly because Utah missed a ton of shots specially early on. Tonight Detroit was on fire. It’s not about that, but seeing what the Spurs have. I still don’t know.

I kind of expect Derrick to get going soon. He can shoot much better than he has been. I am not really concerned about him until his plantar fasciitis acts up.

Very fair and well thought out. Thanks. That point about Ben Simmons especially. I don't think something like that would ever happen to a guy like DJ for what it's worth. He cares too much. He has too much heart.

[raybies]

Thanks for explaining your point. I think I am still behind everyone thinking of fit, a big 3 and such. I am watching just to see who can play and who has game without a star around them.
I think some players don’t even know who they are in the league, who they can be. Maybe they have one or two things they can do well, but need to add more and in adding more there’s going to be some struggle. Either they succeed or fail but it takes time.

Ultimately for me it’s too early to say so and so doesn’t fit. These guys need to develop and there will be some struggle. But I agree with you on DJ. I agree with you he has the dog in him. He’s like Draymond Green in that regard. All teams need guys like that. He doesn’t need to be the most offensively talented guy in the team, but he’s got compe ive desire and is unafraid. Has the balls that Ben Simmons is missing, if not his talent.

I am enjoying watching games like this because it’s time to push buttons, place guys in uncomfortable situations, get them out of their comfort zone and see what sticks.

I don’t care about the final score either. The other game even when they won it was mostly because Utah missed a ton of shots specially early on. Tonight Detroit was on fire. It’s not about that, but seeing what the Spurs have. I still don’t know.

I kind of expect Derrick to get going soon. He can shoot much better than he has been. I am not really concerned about him until his plantar fasciitis acts up.

Very fair and well thought out. Thanks. That point about Ben Simmons especially. I don't think something like that would ever happen to a guy like DJ for what it's worth. He cares too much. He has too much heart.

[GAustex]

Lol

[Chomag]

I just knew Primo was going to get Pop's mind ery games right after him having a rather decent game...is Pop really this predictable?

[Gibbz]

I assumed Primo was sitting after the 0 first-half minutes. WTF

[raybies]

I just knew Primo was going to get Pop's mind ery games right after him having a rather decent game...is Pop really this predictable?

maybe hes protecting him from trade… that would be my honest opinion

[John B]

Luka looked really good with the limited minutes. He has good footwork down low, and good pick and roll game with Primo. To me, he looks much better than Poeltl offensively. With Poeltl, I can immediately predict what he’s going to do with the ball, he’ll pass it. With Luka and Jock, there’s option to shoot outside or drive and take a mid-range shot. There’s just better play with either one of them playing C. Right now I’d rather keep Thad at 4 and include Poeltl in a trade. It’s 2nd game, but those teardrops just aint happening.

[R. DeMurre]

Pop's schtick with sitting young players after quality performances has gotten really tiring. I just don't see it being a learning tool, or anything useful. It feels anti-inspiring-- the opposite of what a coach should be going for.

[Fusternino]

How did Aminu move? Is he still even an NBA player? I was worried he'd fail his physical.

[Budkin]

We’re gonna lose A LOT of games this year. That much is clear.

[Fireball]

that looked pretty ugly most of the time .... Lonnie still hot and cold ... Spurs still dont hit enough threes to compete in today's NBA and we cannot have Forbes and McDermott on the floor at the same time ... wanted to watch more Primo and Luka and of course it did not happen

... and thx to Trey Lyles for burying us

[Rocalcio]

Did it work on Monday? For me it was just the first thing when I opened the app, like it was a video I just had to tap to play.

Same for me on Monday but all of a sudden the stream stopped and you had nowhere to click to access the stream again, only the boxscore was available.

[poopbox]

"Coaching" doesn't mean benching the leading scorer of the starting unit. Regardless of if Walker is a bad player for being inconsistent or whatever, coaching isn't supposed to be pushing the same buttons with every player. It's been clear that Pop has never known which of Walker's buttons to push. Sometimes he accidentally gets a good game out of him, and that reinforces the "tough love" approach Pop's chosen to take. But maybe when Lonnie's coming off a pretty good half you don't bench him for whatever random lapse he had. If you want to try a new look, just let Walker sit the rest of the game and bring in Primo. That way Josh gets good minutes and Walker can get a good game under his belt.

Ultimately, the Spurs are bigger than Walker, and they'll still be around even when Lonnie's on another team. But Pop has to approach this era of the Spurs differently than before. He isn't looking for role-players to fill gaps anymore. He isn't looking for "Spurs guys" or whatever. He's going to actually develop players, and that means he'll have to move outside his comfort zone when talent is there. Lonnie doesn't really matter to that end. There are plenty of other prospects on the roster now. But he's going to have to be willing to play ball with all sort of temperaments now, because he doesn't have a core of talent the fall back on. Even if Walker's problems are Walker's fault, Pop's inability to do anything with them doesn't speak well to his fitness to coach this next stretch of the team.

I can't believe I am saying this...but I agree with you 100%. Let me look outside and see if cats and dogs are falling from the sky

Lonnies problem is that his coach primary motivational technique is tough love, and tough love obviously doesn't work for Lonnie.

People saying "Lonnie is thinking to much" when he has the ball. Of course he is. He is thinking "what does greg popovich want me to do" instead of just doing what comes natural. Because every since he has been here, he has been the player who has not been allowed to play through his mistakes, because when pop pulls that tough love , Lonnies confidence gets down and then it takes a few games to get back up and then he does have a good game and then Pop pulls him for some and then here we go again.

A perfect example of this is either last year or two years ago when Pop, after a loss to the clippers, was talking about how disappointed he was in lonnie cause he assigned lonnie to guard Kawhi and lonnie "didn't meet the challenge" or some . Like...get the out of here. You are upset that some 2 or 3rd year guy can't guard one of the 5 best players in the nba. Beyond stupid. But because a guy like Dejounte responds to this type of coaching, because Dejounte very much has a "I'm going to show you I can do it" at ude, you somehow think Lonnie would respond to it to, and he doesn't. Now you got a guy going into his fourth year and you still don't know if he can be a consistent player because you don't consistently put him on the floor or give him a defined role. I don't even understand how a supposed great coach comes to the conclusion that Lonnie would have any chance of guarding a guy like Kawhi in the first place.

To make this even worse, you bring back a player who blows virtually every defensive assignment he is given in Forbes. This dude legit lost Olynk on a play where all Olynk did was take one step back from the 3 point line, Forbes legit spun in a circle looking for him. So now Lonnie is being chastised and benched for mistakes while he has to watch another player make way more egregious mistakes but because Greg with 2 g's likes the other player as a person, that's somehow ok? What type of person wants to work in an enviroment when someone is harping on their mistakes while at the same time watching someone else make way worst mistakes but somehow it doesn't ever seem to affect his playing time cause "he competes"?

I'd be pretty surprised if Lonnie ends up here past this year...and I think it will be more his choice than the spurs choice.

Very weird that there are people who are like "Lonnie has to earn this and Lonnie has to prove this and Lonnie has to show this." I thought Lonnie already did that stuff by being good enough at basketball to get selected to an nba team. I would think the next step would be for a coaching staff to give Lonnie a legit chance to prove if he could be a consistent basketball player or not. And if that is indeed correct then our staff has failed tremendously.

[duncan2150]

Luka looked really good with the limited minutes. He has good footwork down low, and good pick and roll game with Primo. To me, he looks much better than Poeltl offensively. With Poeltl, I can immediately predict what he’s going to do with the ball, he’ll pass it. With Luka and Jock, there’s option to shoot outside or drive and take a mid-range shot. There’s just better play with either one of them playing C. Right now I’d rather keep Thad at 4 and include Poeltl in a trade. It’s 2nd game, but those teardrops just aint happening.

Luka's Ballhandling skills looks bad for me. He did not look good for me but we need to see him more.

I'm not sure He'll be on the roster in the future.

[poopbox]

Ok for starters.

DWhite maybe expendable in my eyes... For his wage to production, I just don't know how he fits. We know KJ is long term, DJ is up there, Primo seems to be. Other then that it's open season. You have to think about things holistically, long term and short term. A point guard that can play pick and roll are a dime a dozen. I think Tre for example could do an admirable job at a fraction of the cost. I value Murray more cause he got that dog in him, and he's good for taking a game over when ever he gets that "chip" on his shoulder. It happens anytime. He also has that heart you want when you are competing at high levels and his leadership is good for the team. He holds everyone accountable even himself.

DW is a great company guy, but to me the wage doesn't justify the production and I feel he would be more valuable to another team then us. Philly actually makes perfect sense in that regard... and not to stir the pot... but it is what it is.

As for that initial lineup. Yes, theoretically, that lineup should work but there were no players who get their own shot and that's where we missed DJ. Even though his shot creation is rugged to put it nicely he can still create a shot. Yes DW can orchestrate better but TP9 proved that in this system you don't have to be a Chris Paul. TP was notoriously bad at that but he was sufficient. You just have to make the right reads and passes. The rest of the lineup was fine as well. McD has great value in this league. He's one of the best players with his skill set in the association. I really love that pickup. KJ needs to develop a post game. He's too big and too strong to rely on bully drives. Get your ass in the post and work on a fade and hook, basic post moves and work from there. No telling where he could be in 5 years. When the game slows down we need something other then pick and roll to draw attention and he is big and strong enough to dominate mismatches at the very least. Another thing is to me Poetl ain't the direction I'd go with a center... I think if you could find a 3&D big that would be ideal... and I know they don't grow on trees but I just feel his skill set is probably the easiest to find and cheap at that. His skillset is just not dynamic enough for this offense and team. He really doesn't offer anything offensively and that just hurts...

Thad, definitely doesn't fit this team but I though Aminu definitely does. I personally liked what I saw. He still looked mobile enough for his age, he's versatile and he can still hit the corner three.

Luka seems to always show just enough to not be discarded imo. I think it's gonna be tough cause Luka's at ude I have no doubt irks Pop. He's kind of an en led brat in that regard. He definitely should of played summer league and I think by him not, it hurt his stock with Pop... He's just that kid who probably will be really good no matter what, it's just he's not likely to do it the "right" way. And that's why I think they let him go and sucky as that sounds. But high character players have had great yields for us and low character players have seemingly always flamed out... (Rodman, Jackson, etc)

But that's about what I took from it. Didn't care about the loss. Pop was obviously pushing buttons and seeing what he has so to speak and a lot of the lineups were pretty experimental.

Where do people get that "Luka is en led" from ? When I look for a luka is en led quote I don't find it. When I look for a luka is en led story I don't see it. When I look for luka is en led body language I don't see it. When I look for luka is en led social interactions I don't see it. I guess the whole he is en led thing comes from the way he ghosted his euro team. But...uh...he had the chance to play in the nba and make millions of dollars so what exactly do you expect him to do in that situation...? Not strike when the iron is hot.

The funny thing about this is you can tell he has put in the work in the gym at least on his body because he is significantly larger and stronger than he was when he first came in the league. And even if luka is en led it's weird to me that a supposed HOF coach doesn't know how to handle that beyond just not playing the guy. You would think someone like Pop could do better than that or harness his en lement into something constructive and positive on the basketball court.

[raybies]

Where do people get that "Luka is en led" from ? When I look for a luka is en led quote I don't find it. When I look for a luka is en led story I don't see it. When I look for luka is en led body language I don't see it. When I look for luka is en led social interactions I don't see it. I guess the whole he is en led thing comes from the way he ghosted his euro team. But...uh...he had the chance to play in the nba and make millions of dollars so what exactly do you expect him to do in that situation...? Not strike when the iron is hot.

The funny thing about this is you can tell he has put in the work in the gym at least on his body because he is significantly larger and stronger than he was when he first came in the league. And even if luka is en led it's weird to me that a supposed HOF coach doesn't know how to handle that beyond just not playing the guy. You would think someone like Pop could do better than that or harness his en lement into something constructive and positive on the basketball court.

Stopped reading after that.. try looking up his flags pre draft.. looking up what you can find about him not going to Summer League this year... etc

[Dex]

Very weird that there are people who are like "Lonnie has to earn this and Lonnie has to prove this and Lonnie has to show this." I thought Lonnie already did that stuff by being good enough at basketball to get selected to an nba team. I would think the next step would be for a coaching staff to give Lonnie a legit chance to prove if he could be a consistent basketball player or not. And if that is indeed correct then our staff has failed tremendously.

Lonnie has been given chances. THIS was another one of his chances to show out with Murray resting and a full preseason game to around, and instead it was the same old Lonnie...a mixed bag of good and bad. Like I said earlier in this thread, he played the most minutes, got the most touches, and took the most shots...and his game was extremely hit and miss.

6/18 from the field, 1/8 from three for 13 points, 2 assists, 2 turnovers, and some wild shots that never even had a chance of touching the basket. And I'm not just hunting his stats here...his game actually looked worse to the eye than what his overall production ended up being. And he is still a traffic cone on defense.

I know its just preseason and guys are getting in shape and the lineups were wacky, but to say Lonnie isn't being given chances is just not true at this point.

[spurraider21]

I think we need to stop assuming that White is always on the verge of being that player we saw in game 3 against Denver

[rjv]

Lonnie has been given chances. THIS was another one of his chances to show out with Murray resting and a full preseason game to around, and instead it was the same old Lonnie...a mixed bag of good and bad. Like I said earlier in this thread, he played the most minutes, got the most touches, and took the most shots...and his game was extremely hit and miss.

6/18 from the field, 1/8 from three for 13 points, 2 assists, 2 turnovers, and some wild shots that never even had a chance of touching the basket. And I'm not just hunting his stats here...his game actually looked worse to the eye than what his overall production ended up being. And he is still a traffic cone on defense.

I know its just preseason and guys are getting in shape and the lineups were wacky, but to say Lonnie isn't being given chances is just not true at this point.

nice assessment, but i'd add his defense was as mediocre as always. and for pop, it has always centered around defense.

[Chinook]

Here's the thing: even if Lonnie is basketball-re ed, he wouldn't be the first such player to make it in the NBA. Pop doesn't get relieved from coaching responsibilities just because he doesn't have his ideal players. If Lonnie can't do the complicated stuff, Pop's job is to make the game simpler for him. It's no different than an NFL coordinator giving their young QB one read or telling their young DE to just rush the passer. "Coaching" means putting guys in positions to succeed, not being all Darwinist and saying "if you don't get my scheme, I'm moving on." Back when we were just talking about role-players that was fine. But with no foundation to the team now Pop needs to be way more creative and controlling of the offense than he's ever been.

And again, Walker is almost separate from this. Lonnie can be traded or walk or whatever, and Pop would still have to change his approach, because there are plenty of talented players out there who would respond to it, and the Spurs can't afford to overlook those guys anymore.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

The Luka draft pick set the rebuilding process back 5 years minimum

[The Truth #6]

With Lonnie he’s been given opportunity, but I don’t love the handling of him either. Agree that the same approach for others doesn’t work for him.

With Luka, it’s way worse. He’s not perfect. Possibly a disaffected loner. And he doesn’t smile like the others and fit the new approach. But whatever. He’s a wasted asset at this point. Either they wasted the opportunity to develop him or they simply screwed up by drafting him. Not a good look in my opinion.

[Truckules]

Here's the thing: even if Lonnie is basketball-re ed, he wouldn't be the first such player to make it in the NBA. Pop doesn't get relieved from coaching responsibilities just because he doesn't have his ideal players. If Lonnie can't do the complicated stuff, Pop's job is to make the game simpler for him. It's no different than an NFL coordinator giving their young QB one read or telling their young DE to just rush the passer. "Coaching" means putting guys in positions to succeed, not being all Darwinist and saying "if you don't get my scheme, I'm moving on." Back when we were just talking about role-players that was fine. But with no foundation to the team now Pop needs to be way more creative and controlling of the offense than he's ever been.

And again, Walker is almost separate from this. Lonnie can be traded or walk or whatever, and Pop would still have to change his approach, because there are plenty of talented players out there who would respond to it, and the Spurs can't afford to overlook those guys anymore.

If Lonnie were a rookie, I'd agree, but this is his fourth year in the league. If Lonnie could show that he's a star just in the wrong system, I would agree, but he hasn't shown anything resembling starter-level talent, much less star-level. You don't design your offense around one bench-level player. Maybe you can argue that his development was not handled correctly, but you can't hurt the team to help his development now.

[Jordan Jackson]

I expect most nights to be like this. If they can get a top 5 pick in the draft - the season is somewhat a success.

I think the team is wasting its time with some of these “young guys”. But when your this bad, hope is all you have I guess.