Shams: Pop Not Expected to Return this Season; Long-Term Future is in Jeopardy

[poopbox]

Thanks all who responded to my Bud question. I don't have any strong opinions about Bud, so I was wondering.

I kind of like the things that Fox has said about Mike Brown and wouldn't mind him returning as an assistant. With that said, if Bud got fired and we hired Bud or Mike Brown... would they be giving up their payouts from PHX/SAC to come here? Could that be an impediment to hiring them? I have heard something similar about Monty (who I don't really want anyway)

Yeah not sure if it's an actual cba level rule but coaching contracts are prorated, since coaches contracts are guaranteed (unless they agree to a buyout, etc) If Mike becomes a coach for the spurs typically what happens is whatever salary he gets, gets deducted from what the Kings owe him. If the Kings owe him 20 million and Mike signs on to be the spurs coach for 3 years and 15 million then typically the kings would owe him 5 million instead of 20. It's the main reason why you see coaches sit out a season or go into broadcasting or something until their contract is actually up.

Funny enough Mike is a good example of this. He sit out 2 years after getting fired by cleveland the second time, cause he was getting paid by Cleveland (only lasted the one year) AND still getting paid by the lakers (only lasted what, 10 games or something)

[scott]

Yeah not sure if it's an actual cba level rule but coaching contracts are prorated, since coaches contracts are guaranteed (unless they agree to a buyout, etc) If Mike becomes a coach for the spurs typically what happens is whatever salary he gets, gets deducted from what the Kings owe him. If the Kings owe him 20 million and Mike signs on to be the spurs coach for 3 years and 15 million then typically the kings would owe him 5 million instead of 20. It's the main reason why you see coaches sit out a season or go into broadcasting or something until their contract is actually up.

Funny enough Mike is a good example of this. He sit out 2 years after getting fired by cleveland the second time, cause he was getting paid by Cleveland (only lasted the one year) AND still getting paid by the lakers (only lasted what, 10 games or something)

So in theory, would that allow a scenario where say Mike has two more years on his SAC deal, he could do a 3-year deal with SAS for $1MM/yr and then a 3rd year at $10MM?

Maybe that is a way out of this for the Spurs, who might be afraid to force Pop out because then they'll still owe him $51MM over the next 3 years?

[Bruno]

CBA is an agreement between the NBPA and the NBA. It give rules for players' contract.

I'm not sure there is a "CBA" between the NBA and a coaches' union that defines how coaches' contracts are structured.

[RC_Drunkford]

hope the word was tank

[BackHome]

Yeah, they lost after the meeting- One question I have to ask I know Pop recently signed a new contract making him the highest paid coach I wonder how it is structured if he has to retire for medical reasons vs being let go?

[poopbox]

So in theory, would that allow a scenario where say Mike has two more years on his SAC deal, he could do a 3-year deal with SAS for $1MM/yr and then a 3rd year at $10MM?

Maybe that is a way out of this for the Spurs, who might be afraid to force Pop out because then they'll still owe him $51MM over the next 3 years?

Maybe. I'm not 100% on how the money is divided up amongst the years. If the Kings owe Mike 20 million, the Spurs pay him 15 million to coach, the Kings now owe him 5 million, but how they have to pay that 5 (yearly or lump sum) I am not sure.

You bring up a good point though about Pop. We forget he is not just a coach, he's the president of basketball operations, so he doesn't just have a coach salary. he has a coach AND executive salary. 51 million would be quite a bit for a small market team to swallow to just have Pop go away. I'd think he just stays on as president of basketball operations and his salary is just 51 million owed for that job.

[RC_Drunkford]

From the Spurs POV - what is the argument for Bud? Are we just willing to chalk up the end of his MIL tenure and his time in PHX to bad cir stances? Does he not have any culpability in the way things went there?

[scott]

Suns coach tenures are decreasing at a rapid pace… eventually they’ll just start firing guys instantly upon hiring

[exstatic]

But enough about Mitch Johnson and Vassell this season

Those aren’t the only two choices. Hating on Vogel doesn’t mean I love Mitch. Snyder, Hardy, and Bud all on Vogel.

[scott]

Suns coach tenures are decreasing at a rapid pace… eventually they’ll just start firing guys instantly upon hiring

Looks like a classic NBA Cental gotcha… haven’t seen this Bud news reported anywhere else

[scott]

Yeah, they lost after the meeting- One question I have to ask I know Pop recently signed a new contract making him the highest paid coach I wonder how it is structured if he has to retire for medical reasons vs being let go?

The meeting was on Thursday, they haven't played since Wednesday. With that said, I fully expect them to get their pushed today and tomorrow.

[Seventyniner]

Suns coach tenures are decreasing at a rapid pace… eventually they’ll just start firing guys instantly upon hiring

Or take it a step further and fire a guy before hiring him at all.

[scott]

Or take it a step further and fire a guy before hiring him at all.

Also known as The Josh McDaniels Threshold.

[BackHome]

Those aren’t the only two choices. Hating on Vogel doesn’t mean I love Mitch. Snyder, Hardy, and Bud all on Vogel.

Just curious who would be your top two realistic coaches you would want?

[exstatic]

Just curious who would be your top two realistic coaches you would want?

Snyder/Hardy. They’re both good coaches on bad or tanking teams. I have no idea what their contract statuses are.

[BackHome]

I really like Snyder but he just signed a new contract I believe - As far as Hardy doesn’t he also have time with the Spurs he is one of my top 3 coaches I like and would pick him over Bud or Brown all day every day. Another coach I would like but would never happen is Spoelstra as he would never leave Riley

One thing who ever we bring in we also need to get him good assistant coaches a riser that I like is Sam Cassell as he has played with great big men during his playing times.

[couchman]

Put this win on Pop I guess? Haha

[cutewizard]

Manu could be Executive VP

Pop stays on as Pres

Find a new Head Coach

[Ice009]

Now that you've bought it up, I'd love Manu to be head coach, but I don't want to ruin his life . I think he'd be too intense.

[Jordan Jackson]

So basically- they got Pop out of bed to yell at these guys to play hard for 4 quarters.

Yeah, Mitch might not make the cut.

[TD 21]

From the Spurs POV - what is the argument for Bud? Are we just willing to chalk up the end of his MIL tenure and his time in PHX to bad cir stances? Does he not have any culpability in the way things went there?

I don't think they care about that or virtually anything other than whether someone is "part of the family" and if the timing aligns (however the mechanics of it would have to be), I suspect he'd be at or near the top of the list.

I prefer it goes to someone young and of color.

[spursistan]

The family/in-house options are likely to be Borrego/Mike Brown/Budenholzer (if fired). I really doubt they go 'woke' in this politically charged climate and hire Becky Hammond (DEI and all that jazz.)

This sounds like Pop will give it a final try next season. They will use the excuse of an extremely dry coaching market to give him the opportunity to go out on his own terms, on a high note (a winning season)

Another wildcard, which may explain him not pushing for a buy out? Paul angling for aa future coaching gig..Wemby is a gravy train everyone is waiting to hop onto even as an Assistant coach..

[scott]

The family/in-house options are likely to be Borrego/Mike Brown/Budenholzer (if fired). I really doubt they go 'woke' in this politically charged climate and hire Becky Hammond (DEI and all that jazz.)

Unless directed otherwise by Holt Jr himself, I don't think the Spurs FO cares about "this politically charged climate"

[Teamduncan21]

They shouldn't hire Becky because of DEI. They should hire Becky if they think she's the best choice. The goal is to win. Not to be diverse. She used to be an assistant coach and is champion.

[Ice009]

I'm OK with Becky if they think she's the best candidate to coach the team. I don't care if it's a guy or girl. I'm fine with a hire like that if he or she is the best candidate. The Spurs wouldn't hire anyone based on DEI reasons.