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You said you've seen him do it quite a few times, and that he mainly does it during practice. I was just asking an honest question, How are you so priviledged to get to go to spur practices?
lol, true.
nothing but some spirited message board compe ion though..... We got home court advantage
You said you've seen him do it quite a few times, and that he mainly does it during practice. I was just asking an honest question, How are you so priviledged to get to go to spur practices?
I cant find the interview right now but you can probably find it on http://www.brucebowen.com/home.html . If you still havnt found it by tomorrow I will look it up, its already late and I have to get to bed for an EARLY work day
God damn, we need the season to start.
honestly, when I said practice I meant warmup (seriously)... but there is an interview with him and several other Spurs from last season (after he lead the league in 3pt% for half the season) about how he can shoot from other spots... he just prefers the corner.
Last edited by phyzik; 10-09-2006 at 11:10 PM.
At least we can agree on something
ok, I really need to get to bed... just gonna check a few other posts (damn work)
I now declare this Mavs-Spurs fan meeting adjourned! Hopefully y'all agree.
Sigh, another Mav fans who claim to know all in the basketball universe, sometimes I wonder why I even would discuss basketball topics with basketball encyclopaedias.
In the 5 years with the Spurs, Bowen shot 37.8%, 44.1%, 36.3%, 40.3% and 42.4% from 3pt land, I wouldn’t particularly called those “suck at shooting”, oh, sorry, I mean “SUCKS AT SHOOTING!!!”.
Parker can’t guard anyone? He got 2 All-defensive team votes last year. That is one less than the Mavs’ defensive ace Josh Howard. And if he gets burned on D just like he will burn everyone else on O, I am fine with it, it balances out.
Bowen on Dirk last year was out of necessity. Nobody thought Haslem can shut Dirk down either, but guess what? He did! Elson is long, quick and atheletic, and could be a decent defensive option on Dirk, we will wait and see whether there is anything left on Eric William’s tank.
I agree that it’s going to be a tough series, no doubt, and the edge definitely is on the Mavs right now, I am just arguing how the Mavs have improved so much more than the Spurs this off season.
Man, I really don't know about basketball. Could you please explain to me how shooting corner 3's is not part of shooting, and dribbling, creating his own shot and passing is?
Also, why would his FT be a huge problem if we are talking about him shooting over Harris/Terry for jumpshots?
I've seen Bowen makes about 25% of his three's from the other areas of the court, he just prefer the corners -- who knows why. But hes a threat from all over.
This is true, but it still doesn’t change the fact that Harris or Terry will be a defensive liability if both are on the court at the same time.
That’s why Parker was sitting on the bench 3 years ago. He is now much of effective in moving w/o the ball, and in distributing the ball to the right people (no perfect, just better). I don’t see Harris having THAT dramatic an improvement over one year.
Sorry, it was poorly explained in my last post. What I meant is that with Harris’ passing and distributing abilities right now, he can only be effective with the ball in his hands through scoring. My argument is that he is not as effective in passing the ball as he is scoring it.
My hopes are actually on Eric Williams. Raptors don’t play much defense, and as a result, have little use for a defensive SF like Williams. I hope at his age (is it 34?) that he still has some quickness left in him.
I think Elson has the same body type to guard someone like Dirk. Long, quick and athletic. Whether he could actually do it remains to be seen.
He never said "Bruce Bowen is not an offensive threat,", he said "BOWEN SUCKS AT SHOOTING!!!". Two completely different things.
This is a liability that the Mavs can live with, as we did in the playoffs. Our belief is that the other team will have to adjust to the speed to hoop, before we have to adjust to having a defender that is two inches too small.This is true, but it still doesn’t change the fact that Harris or Terry will be a defensive liability if both are on the court at the same time.
In short, the Mavs will live with players shooting over Terry/Harris (Jump shot) for as long as the other team is happy with Terry/Harris exploiting their speed to get to the rim and getting a lay-up.
Actually its exactly the opposite. Harris has to develop a shot (Like most PG's do) this is why he penetrates when he has the ball ... Its an easier shot. Remember he almost led the team in assist last year and that was as a back-up. I don't see him improving to All-Star level, but improving from where he is right now, would make him a pretty good player.Sorry, it was poorly explained in my last post. What I meant is that with Harris’ passing and distributing abilities right now, he can only be effective with the ball in his hands through scoring. My argument is that he is not as effective in passing the ball as he is scoring it.
I understand that he is on the team, I was not aware that the Spurs planned on using him as anything other then trade-bait else I would have included him.My hopes are actually on Eric Williams. Raptors don’t play much defense, and as a result, have little use for a defensive SF like Williams. I hope at his age (is it 34?) that he still has some quickness left in him.
That is the key .. and staying out of foul trouble. He has shown quickness in Europe, but quickness down the floor and defensive quickness are two different things ... We will see.I think Elson has the same body type to guard someone like Dirk. Long, quick and athletic. Whether he could actually do it remains to be seen.
The Heat played that well by leaving Harris open and daring him to shoot jumpers. The Spurs should have done that, but didn’t. This year, unless Harris improves his jumpers immensely, all the teams are going to pull this on him.
He is already a pretty good player, no arguments here. I just believe that he is a better finisher than passer. Again, if you left him wide open for jumpers, and can’t penetrate, his effectiveness on offense would be severely limited.
As for Williams, I am a fan of his, and originally thought that the Rasho trade was to get Williams, and not Bonner. I don’t see how Bonner can fit in with the Spurs with his extremely slow lateral quickness and limited defensive skills, but I may have been wrong on that.
Elson, as long as he makes Dirk works hard for his shots, and can guard him without a double team, that is all the Spurs ask.
BTW, another problem with Terry and Harris on the floor; who is going to double Duncan? It used to be the guy guarding Bowen, but if you have Finley, Parker and Ginobili, along with Bowen and Duncan on the floor, you cannot leave any of the other guys opened to double Duncan, you also do not send a Terry/Harris (who I assume would be guarding Bowen) to double Duncan, because that is a small double, and Duncan can easily pass or shoot over that.
I hope against the Mavericks we never have Finley, Ginobili, Parker and Bowen on the floor all at once - at least, never again.
Playing that Line-up is what the Mavs want, it means that the Mavs are dictating the flow of the game.
As for doubling Duncan, we don't do that. We have a lot of big bodies that have fouls to give. Duncan goes off on the Mavs because we don't double. We pick our poison and stay home on the other players.
Now in some cases the man guarding Bowen (Terry or Harris, Howard is he is in foul trouble) would double down. When a guard doubles down, it is not to block the shot, its to use the quick hands to go for the steal or knock to ball out of bounds. Big's go for blocks, small's go for steals.
Strictly using fouls on Duncan is pretty drastic measures. As poor a FT shooter as Duncan is, he is still way over 48% (his FG%), which means that he has a better chance on the line than from the field (unless you foul him on layups and dunks, etc ...)
By holding the ball up top, the double can't steal the ball, and Duncan, easily seeing over the double team, can pass the ball to any one of his shooters on the perimeter. And most of the Spurs perimeter players can shoot.
If you mean us playing two bigs and not playing small, i think you're wrong. Thats how the Spurs have always won, imo - WE dictated the pace by going through Tim offensively, then using Tim and another big to make penetrators think twice. I think if we had done that, we would have won. Putting some 6'7-8 on Dirk is definitely not the answer.
Drastic and "what it takes to win" are very close to the same thing. You did watch the play-offs last year didn't you, It is what we do.Strictly using fouls on Duncan is pretty drastic measures. As poor a FT shooter as Duncan is, he is still way over 48% (his FG%), which means that he has a better chance on the line than from the field (unless you foul him on layups and dunks, etc ...)
By holding the ball, even a guard can jump to reach it. What the double does is make him make the decision quickly, right or wrong and get the ball out of his hand ... but this is a mute point as the Mavs like to play his straight up with Diop/Dampier/Mbenga fouling him (again, you did watch the games didn't you?) One of the fouls out in the first half and the other by the end of the game .... don't laugh, it worked.By holding the ball up top, the double can't steal the ball, and Duncan, easily seeing over the double team, can pass the ball to any one of his shooters on the perimeter. And most of the Spurs perimeter players can shoot.
The Spurs do need to keep two bigs on the floor, not just for the defense, but for the foul protection for Duncan. The big question is whether they can keep their center on the floor when the Mavs have Terry and Harris on the floor. Luckily we will get a clue to that answer very early on in the season. I know that it will be just one game, but the match-up of ... Well, everyone, on Dirk and whether they can guard him without putting Bowen on him will be the thing to watch, If not, the Spurs will have to either pull a trade to find someone, or start working on a zone if they intend to beat the Mavs.If you mean us playing two bigs and not playing small, i think you're wrong. Thats how the Spurs have always won, imo - WE dictated the pace by going through Tim offensively, then using Tim and another big to make penetrators think twice. I think if we had done that, we would have won. Putting some 6'7-8 on Dirk is definitely not the answer.
Dalhoop, you have very good basketball intellect. You're a good poster.
The problem with letting an MVP-caliber player go off on you is the very fact - when you're trying to get stops down the stretch, you can't. Especially against someone like Tim, who uninjured and allowed to have his way, will hang 40/20/6 on you.
The way I see w/ Harris and Terry on the floor, you just stay tall and let Harris shoot. You cant improve your jumpshot so substantially over just one summer that you can knock down every shot you need to in a high stakes play off game - so we keep parker on Harris, let Bowen or Manu cover Terry, and the same with Howard. Then if they put in another guard, you just switch off by whos doing the best. Bowen can shut down any guard. Besides, I'm not worried so much about Harris if we go tall, cause he'll think twice about entering the paint if we've got two bigs. The person who scares me is Terry.
Subs ute the word "Spurs" for "Mavs" and change the word "Duncan" to "Stoudamire" and you have the strategy for winning the WC the previous year. Too bad the Spurs let themselves fall right into their own trap less than a year later.
We did last year. We did it against Grizzlies (Gasol), we did it to the Spurs (Duncan, I am not sure of his numbers, but it seemed like they were 40-20The problem with letting an MVP-caliber player go off on you is the very fact - when you're trying to get stops down the stretch, you can't. Especially against someone like Tim, who uninjured and allowed to have his way, will hang 40/20/6 on you.), we did it to the Suns (Nash) and we did it to the Heat (They played a Zone .. You should learn from this)
We don't care of someone gets fifty in a loss, as long as its a loss. Remember in the playoffs last year when Parker, Manu and Duncan all went for 30+ in the same game because we refused to double? Do you remember the score? It was a Mavs win.
If your offense relies too much on the double, the Mavs WILL NOT DO IT. The Mavs believe, right or wrong, that it is better to get the other team out of their game, then to allow them to play their game. If this means letting a MVP get 50, then that's what it means.
Whether you play off of Harris or up on him doesn't matter all that much, with screens and picks. Quick PG's get to the rim ... Its what they do. I know that you think that someone can keep up with them, but your fooling yourself. Parker may be fast going forward, but is he that fast back peddling? Nobody is.
Go ahead and watch any game that has a "quick" PG playing and you will see that when he wants to get to the rim ... He does, it is that simple. The only question is whether the Spurs will be able to cover the drive and recover to their man fast enough.
How you cover Harris will not determine the winner in the Mavs / Spurs games, neither will the way the Mavs cover Duncan ... It will all come down to whoever is covering Dirk. How they are doing and their foul situation will effect the entire Spurs line-up and how they play as a team
I agree that it worked last year, barely, but that is back to the original point, why would anybody say that the Mavs have improved more than the Spurs did this off season IF the Mavs are planning on using the same personnel and strategy to play the Spurs?
Besides, Duncan averaged a lot of points (was it like 32?) vs. the Mavs last year in the playoffs. Yes, the Mavs won the series, but it was by a hairline, and given the way the composite ball could bounce this year, both the Spurs and the Mavs should think of better strategies to combat each other rather than relied on what worked last year.
Again, I am counting on Eric Williams being that other big, and perhaps even Elson.
BTW, to echo td4mvp21’s comments, you know your hoops. It’s actually very enjoyable to argue hoops with you.
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