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  1. #251
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Cost comparison of energy sources is not a hard thing to find data for.

    I have looked through a LOT of such data and they all point to the same trends and general analysis.

    New industries require lots of capital that private entrepreneurs may not have. They require co-ordinated investments in related industries that individual entrepreneurs cannot organise by themselves. They generate demonstration effects and technological spillovers that raise social returns way above private incentives. All these are valid reasons for governments to give private investors a nudge
    .3

    Is it really all that much to ask for, to get us started on a road that we know we will be on, even if we do nothing?

    Given that costs of switching over will arguably likely be greater in the future, isn't the more dangerous decision to do nothing?

  2. #252
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Following the Oil shocks of the 70s, top level administration in Nixon's white house advocated that we physically invade an OPEC nation to get our hands on the easy stuff. The threat of a counter strike by Russia was all that diverted us then. Coincidentally, Wolfowitz, Cheney, and Rumsfeld were all involved in that administration.

    Years later they would go on to fulfill those aspirations in the Bush Admin.

    I cant find the cite, but this is history that a smart mofo like yourself should know. And I think you do know.
    Contingency plans are always in place, that doesn't mean we plan to act upon them. As a contingency plan, I can believe what you say. I just don't believe it was a scenario any actually tried to make happen.

  3. #253
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    he had no nukes. he had no chemical weapons. his country had been operating under sanctions and embargos for years, Iraq was in shambles. Shot at US planes for years, never hit one due to the lack of anti-aircraft weaponry. no threat to anyone in the US. Never confirmed any ties to al-queda. committed war crimes, lived luxuriously, starved his own people as a dictator, WHO WAS PROPPED UP BY THE US GOV UNTIL HE TRIED TO OVERSTEP HIS BOUNDS IN THE MIDDLE EAST AND BECAME A THREAT TO OUR OIL SUPPLY.

    ITS ALL ABOUT THE TEXAS TEA.

    Try again, brother.
    Yes, but he was happy to let everyone think he was a threat.

  4. #254
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Parker...

    You have become a true tin hat wearer. There are others here I'm sure you'll get along with fine.

  5. #255
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    LOL...

    With "tax break."

    LOL...

    You call those subsidies?......

    NEXT!
    Then let renewable energy have the same level of tax breaks. Otherwise it acts just like a subsidy.

    If oil development gets tax breaks, and renewables don't, does that distort their relative costs?

  6. #256
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Parker...

    You have become a true tin hat wearer. There are others here I'm sure you'll get along with fine.
    ... says the guy who thinks global warming science is a conspiracy to grab power by "leftists".

  7. #257
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Then let renewable energy have the same level of tax breaks. Otherwise it acts just like a subsidy.

    If oil development gets tax breaks, and renewables don't, does that distort their relative costs?
    Renewables do have tax breaks. My understanding is that the only thing that energy companies get that can be considered subsidies are for ethanol, and for renewables.

  8. #258
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    ... says the guy who thinks global warming science is a conspiracy to grab power by "leftists".
    So that's a reason to ignore reason?

  9. #259
    Believe. Parker2112's Avatar
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    we never propped up saddam. in fact we propped up the shah in iran to counter saddam and his ties to the soviets.
    he had no nukes, but no one (besides sean penn) knew that. since he booted the weapons inspectors, we never found out he didn't have one. there are confirmed ties to al quaeda and saddam. saddam did shoot down planes. iraq the country was in shambles but he still had a huge army.
    You're showing up to talk about the assignment without having done your homework.

    If you dont know about US and Saddam, there's still alot you dont kow about this world, sir.

  10. #260
    Believe. Parker2112's Avatar
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    Yes, but he was happy to let everyone think he was a threat.
    So we spend trillions of American dollars (UP TO FOUR TRILLION TOTAL EST.)and thousands of American lives BECAUSE SADDAM WAS POSTURING?

    Your not even close. Read some of the books on the Bush admin. Even the conservative members of his admin have written on it.

    Wild Cobra, your answers have been limited to one line responses with no substance...you are flailing away helplessly with personal attacks... dismissal is your greatest tool. Why dont the facts come to your aid here? The answer is obvious...

  11. #261
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    So we spend trillions of American dollars (UP TO FOUR TRILLION TOTAL EST.)and thousands of American lives BECAUSE SADDAM WAS POSTURING?

    Your not even close. Read some of the books on the Bush admin. Even the conservative members of his admin have written on it.

    Wild Cobra, your answers have been limited to one line responses with no substance...you are flailing away helplessly with personal attacks... dismissal is your greatest tool. Why dont the facts come to your aid here? The answer is obvious...
    Why should I waste my time compiling more of a dialog when all I see is stupid rantings from you guys? No matter what I come up with, you find something to counter it with. I could in turn do the same thing. The internet if full of truth and lies. The problem is, you don't see the facts, just the numbers dealing with consensus.

  12. #262
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    You're showing up to talk about the assignment without having done your homework.

    If you dont know about US and Saddam, there's still alot you dont kow about this world, sir.
    So what do your historical revisionists say then. Please fill me in, because I'm sure it's different than the world events I remember in the 70's and 80's.

  13. #263
    Veteran jack sommerset's Avatar
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    Anyone figure out when the oil will run out and the world die? We know Random thinks it will be before his grandkid can drive.

  14. #264
    Believe. Parker2112's Avatar
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    So what do your historical revisionists say then. Please fill me in, because I'm sure it's different than the world events I remember in the 70's and 80's.
    anybody recognize this dude? anybody?


  15. #265
    Believe. Parker2112's Avatar
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    revisionist my ass.

  16. #266
    Believe. Parker2112's Avatar
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    Anyone figure out when the oil will run out and the world die? We know Random thinks it will be before his grandkid can drive.
    It doesnt have to run out. Supply just has to fail to meet demand. That creates sky-high oil/gas/food/consumer goods/services prices. Which it is already beginning to do.

    You need to wrap your head around the problem...its not as easy as 1-2-3.

  17. #267
    Veteran jack sommerset's Avatar
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    anybody recognize this dude? anybody?

    That is Saddam Hussein. He was president of Iraq until 2003. He lead a interesting but destructive life. He was found guilty of crimes against humanity. He murdered, tortured, raped his own people. His life is well do ented. You should look him up.

  18. #268
    Believe. Parker2112's Avatar
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    That is Saddam Hussein. He was president of Iraq until 2003. He lead a interesting but destructive life. He was found guilty of crimes against humanity. He murdered, tortured, raped his own people. His life is well do ented. You should look him up.
    And our esteemed Donny Rumsfeld shaking hands with a criminal, rapist, torturer.

  19. #269
    Veteran jack sommerset's Avatar
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    It doesnt have to run out. Supply just has to fail to meet demand. That creates sky-high oil/gas/food/consumer goods/services prices. Which it is already beginning to do.

    You need to wrap your head around the problem...its not as easy as 1-2-3.
    I have and you are right. 1-2-3.

    Randoms solutions is to raise prices now as if we have no oil left but more important he thinks it will run out before his grandkid will drive. Scary, scary stuff!

  20. #270
    Veteran jack sommerset's Avatar
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    And our esteemed Donny Rumsfeld shaking hands with a criminal, rapist, torturer.
    WTF. No way!

    Guess who this is? This one is a tough one. This political leader is bowing down to the oil king himself and shaking his hand!


  21. #271
    i hunt fenced animals clambake's Avatar
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    tell us about the oil business, jackie. har har

  22. #272
    Believe. Parker2112's Avatar
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    I have and you are right. 1-2-3.

    Randoms solutions is to raise prices now as if we have no oil left but more important he thinks it will run out before his grandkid will drive. Scary, scary stuff!
    Asia/China's industrialization and increasing appe e is the cause of the rising prices. We invade middle east countries to ensure we wont be left out in the cold, with no available/affordable supply in the future.

    Its not the end of oil that will kill us. we wont even make it that far. It will be the end of EASY OIL that will shock our economy into a heart attack. The easy oil is the cheap stuff we are using now. the more difficult the oil is to find/extract/refine, the higher those prices will soar. while countries scramble to feed thier economies like ten kids sucking furiously though straws to get the last bits of the milkshake from the cup under little johnnys bed.

    High prices with more industrialization could spell serious conflict, astronomical prices, and crumbling economies in the very near term. like before Randoms grandkids can drive.

    then everyone will wish they had done something to plan for the future, wish they hadnt let big oil (who will have cashed out of the game by then) lead the entire country to its doom. and when we lay at the mercy of the red army, you will understand that inflated prices to curb use were well intentioned.

  23. #273
    Believe. Parker2112's Avatar
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    WTF. No way!

    Guess who this is? This one is a tough one. This political leader is bowing down to the oil king himself and shaking his hand!

    puppets, doing the bidding of thier contributors/citizens. citezens who would use as much as they can get thier hands on. contributors who would profit on every drop. both of the above officials.

    funny... there is no face on this one.

  24. #274
    Veteran jack sommerset's Avatar
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    That's what makes it so hard, right. It's Obama.

  25. #275
    i hunt fenced animals clambake's Avatar
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    jackie would rather see full on tongue......like the last president. har har

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