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  1. #251
    travis2
    Guest
    Now I know you really are a liar...

    You haven't proven squat except your complete ignorance of the situation.

    There are not different rules for separation and retirement. Accrual of points is accrual of points. Period, end of story. You show your complete ignorance by trying to continue that lie.

    The do ents have been proven to be forgeries. Even the one "expert" CBS used has said he didn't see the do ents. And why? Because CBS wouldn't let him look at them except online!

    President Bush completed all his obligations. CBS completed none of theirs.

    Those are the facts. Proven.

  2. #252
    xrayzebra
    Guest
    DeSPURado, you are so full for crap, you just gotta have
    brown eyes. What, just what, does it prove that all the
    memo's are correct? I spent a considerable amount of time
    in the Military and can I advise you of one thing: Every
    damn one I served with pulled a few strings to get
    something done. So What, it happens everyday, on every
    job in the world. Jobs are had and lost because of who
    you know. Grow up, dummie, there is a whole world out
    there and you don't crap about it. Kerry on the other hand
    tried to make himself look like superman and ended up looking
    dumb and dumber. His only problem is he opens his mouth
    inserts foot. There is an old saying: He should take his
    right hand and place it on his left ear and his left hand and
    place it on his right ear and pull his head out of his ass. He
    is dumb as a door knob and he has proven he hates his
    country with a passion. Listen to his testimony before the
    Congress he now serves in, occasionally. Vote for him
    but leave the rest of us alone with you dumb comments.

  3. #253
    DeSPURado
    Guest
    Travis your own source is in disagreement with you.

    Your source specifically says for retirement purposes only. Thats not the same as an early discharge. It also talks about a 1 year limitation on that requirement as well, and a maximum of four make ups per year. I think I am right about this, and both of which were not what Bush did.

    Quote:6.6. Equivalent Training (EQT). A member may be allowed to make up a UTA that was missed even if the UTA was
    missed without prior approval. EQTs can be performed in a pay status for excused absences and in a non pay status
    (retirement points only) for unexcused absences.

    6.6.1. Commanders may allow individuals to make up a maximum of four missed UTA periods in a paid EQT status per
    fiscal year
    [U.S.C. le 37, Section 206(e)]. An EQT in a pay status must be performed within 30 calendar days of the
    missed scheduled UTA period and within the same fiscal year.

    6.6.2. An EQT period without pay (for retirement points only) may be performed outside of 30 calendar days of the
    missed scheduled UTA period but within the member's anniversary year. UTAs performed in a non-pay status will
    be do ented on NGB Form 105m/s or a locally subs uted form, held separately from attendance records for UTAs

    in a pay status, and forwarded directly to MPF.

    6.6.3. The training received during an EQT must be of similar nature and quality to that which was missed. EQT will
    be appropriate to and enhance ability of the individual to accomplish the duties of the position to which he or she is
    assigned. In the case of staff or support personnel, this may include actions to enhance the training, management, or
    readiness of the unit.

  4. #254
    travis2
    Guest
    No, my source is in full agreement with me. If you will actually read, you will see that the "retirement purposes only" is in contrast with pay status.

    There is nothing about any difference between retirement and separation. Period.

    My source just kicked your ass. Again.

  5. #255
    DeSPURado
    Guest
    Retirement is not the same as an early discharge you are showing yourself to be full of you are also ignoring the other crucial parts of the argument. You can only make up 4 absenses a year. Bush had one year with only 7 credits. He did no earn his discharge by your own standards.

  6. #256
    travis2
    Guest
    Bush never had anything less than 56 credits. Liar.

  7. #257
    DeSPURado
    Guest
    I am lying?
    A review of the regulations governing Bush's Guard service during the Vietnam War shows that the White House used an inappropriate--and less stringent--Air Force standard in determining that he had fulfilled his duty. Because Bush signed a six-year "military service obligation," he was required to attend at least 44 inactive-duty training drills each fiscal year beginning July 1. But Bush's own records show that he fell short of that requirement, attending only 36 drills in the 1972-73 period, and only 12 in the 1973-74 period. The White House has said that Bush's service should be calculated using 12-month periods beginning on his induction date in May 1968. Using this time frame, however, Bush still fails the Air Force obligation standard.

    Moreover, White House officials say, Bush should be judged on whether he attended enough drills to count toward retirement. They say he ac ulated sufficient points under this grading system. Yet, even using their method, which some military experts say is incorrect, U.S. News 's analysis shows that Bush once again fell short. His military records reveal that he failed to attend enough active-duty training and weekend drills to gain the 50 points necessary to count his final year toward retirement.

    The U.S. News analysis also showed that during the final two years of his obligation, Bush did not comply with Air Force regulations that impose a time limit on making up missed drills. What's more, he apparently never made up five months of drills he missed in 1972, contrary to assertions by the administration. White House officials did not respond to the analysis last week but emphasized that Bush had "served honorably."

    Some experts say they remain mystified as to how Bush obtained an honorable discharge. Lawrence Korb, a former top Defense Department official in the Reagan administration, says the military records clearly show that Bush "had not fulfilled his obligation" and "should have been called to active duty."
    USnews

  8. #258
    Tommy Duncan
    Guest
    Bush fulfilled the points requirement for all 6 years and received an honorable discharge.

  9. #259
    travis2
    Guest
    www.nationalreview.com/yo...180840.asp

    The records indicate that, despite his move to Alabama, Bush met his obligation to the Guard in the 1972-73 year. At that time, Guardsmen were awarded points based on the days they reported for duty each year. They were given 15 points just for being in the Guard, and were then required to ac ulate a total of 50 points to satisfy the annual requirement. In his first four years of service, Bush piled up lots of points; he earned 253 points in his first year, 340 in his second, 137 in his third, and 112 in his fourth. For the year from May 1972 to May 1973, records show Bush earned 56 points, a much smaller total, but more than the minimum requirement (his service was measured on a May-to-May basis because he first joined the Guard in that month in 1968 ) .

    Bush then racked up another 56 points in June and July of 1973, which met the minimum requirement for the 1973-74 year, which was Bush's last year of service. Together, the record "clearly shows that First Lieutenant George W. Bush has satisfactory years for both '72-'73 and '73-'74, which proves that he completed his military obligation in a satisfactory manner," says retired Lt. Col. Albert Lloyd, a Guard personnel officer who reviewed the records at the request of the White House.

  10. #260
    DeSPURado
    Guest
    Travis did he earn that honorable discharge? Did he ing earn it? By your own standards did he earn it?

  11. #261
    Tommy Duncan
    Guest
    Did John Kerry "earn" his Purple Hearts?

    WTF?

  12. #262
    travis2
    Guest
    Yes he ing earned it. By my own standards he ing earned it.

  13. #263
    DeSPURado
    Guest
    How the does attending only 36 meetings in one year and 12 in the next equal 56 points seriously cause thats what his pay roll records show he attended.

  14. #264
    travis2
    Guest
    His records show 56 points. Period.

    You can lie like your buddies all you want, but you only show off your completely pathetic life in doing so.

  15. #265
    Tommy Duncan
    Guest
    If it's based on points then how did he not? This is the Guard not fulltime service.

  16. #266
    DeSPURado
    Guest
    You need proof he only earned 12 credits here it is in 73

    look at it for yourself. No forgery.
    Link

  17. #267
    xrayzebra
    Guest
    Mr. DeSPURado. Who gives a except you. Bush
    is a man, Kerry is a zero, nada, zilch. Kerry loves the
    UN and Socialism. Bush loves his country and proved it.
    Kerry hates his country and has proven it. Count those
    points, little man.

  18. #268
    Joe Chalupa
    Guest
    weekend warriors.

    I have nothing against the guard but when I was in...well, not many had much to say about the guard.

    I think it is a mistake to worry about it.

  19. #269
    Nbadan
    Guest
    Joe, the more people defend something the more legitimacy they give it in the public-eye. Look at what happened with the whole Swift fiasco. They're allegations were based on a bunch of lies, but since Kerry and the Demo's kept denying them, the cynical public started believing that they were true.

    Just look at the size of this thread if you don't think people care about this issue.

  20. #270
    Tommy Duncan
    Guest
    Joe, the more people defend something the more legitimacy they give it in the public-eye.
    Hence the regurgitated Demo attacks on Bush's National Guard service. It's a manufactured controversy at this point. And again, a pretty stupid one to use against a sitting president.

    It's the LBJ strategy. Get your opponent to deny that he beats his wife, sleeps around, etc...

  21. #271
    DeSPURado
    Guest
    I find it funny that you would show your face here again Tommy after proving that Bush did not earn his discharge.

  22. #272
    Tommy Duncan
    Guest
    This doc would seem to indicate more than 12 points.


  23. #273
    DeSPURado
    Guest
    not if you are not double counting them for the periods of 72-73 and 73-74 Bush still had another year. Even then that adds up to less than 50.

  24. #274
    Tommy Duncan
    Guest
    That's May through July.

  25. #275
    DeSPURado
    Guest
    Read the bottom it says total for the year.

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