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Because Protestants claim to be Christians too
Why's that an accurate comparison - the reformation to the KKK?
Because Protestants claim to be Christians too
Saying I compared those two is a strawman/goal post move.
Your orginal argument posed the question how could the KKK be Christian if they were anti-Catholic, which implies that being Christian and anti-Catholic are mutually exclusive. That big group of Christians known as protestants pokes a hole in your original line of thinking, wouldn't you say?
Lemme rephrase: why is the KKK emblamatic or representative of christianity writ large?
Either it is - in which case how do you explain the anti-catholicism?
Or it isn't - in which case why is the KKK any more representative of christian beliefs than any other subset of the religion?
Incorrect. My point was that you cannot make the KKK the standard-bearer for Christianity.
I don't know about the history of all those guys but including Kepler on that list is hilarious. If you are using him as an example of a christian scientist I can only say that is irony at it's finest.
Also, you need to look into what Aquinas said and how that relates to church doctrine and thus how science was able to progress. Prior to Aquinas, science had to adhere to stricture completely and must be done to augment the dogma. Afterwards they just couldn't disregard it. Aquinas said that *gasp* not everything that heathens said was inherently wrong. Enter Aristotle which presented it's own issues.
That allowed a bit of la ude and saw to Kierkegaard and others being able to try applying logic to problems and you start seeing the proofs on God. Before that even suggesting that you could prove there was a God was grounds for painful death. Even then the Church resisted. Most of those guys works were rejected by Christianity.
The only reason why western civilization has been able to progress is because people likme Aquinas have eroded the absolute intellectual dominance that dogma forces.
Another strawman.
Because protestants follow an anti-catholic belief system. Before responding to that with something else, first ponder why the term "protestant" might have been created and what it might imply (use the context clue "protest" for this part). That should be able to explain the anti-catholicism.
The KKK wasn't just a subset of Christianity. Prior to the civil rights movement it was a mainstream Christian movement supported by countless protestant Churches (the KKK regularly held meetings at Churches). The only reason Christianity doesn't preach racism anymore is because racism became socially acceptable.
When you said "That seems like a thorny issue for equating the KKK with Christian beliefs" you were trying to use its anti-Catholic beliefs to splinter the KKK from Christianity completely. I'm not surprised you're backing off that argument now but it was obvious in your original post.
Where did I make the KKK the standard-bearer for Christianity?
Huh? The KKK is a Christian organization. I agreed with that - but then went on to say that it's not representative of the faith because it's anti-catholic. Not only this, but the fact that the KKK was motivated more by nativism than a dogmatic dispute (like the one motivating the reformation) makes it a very bad example.
You're saying the KKK is a christian group. I agreed. All I said was that it is not representative/emblamatic/descriptive of Christianity in general. I don't see why you're making a big fuss about this. Would you equate the KKK with mainstream christian beliefs?
Huh? The KKK is a Christian organization. I agreed with that - but then went on to say that it's not representative of the faith because it's anti-catholic. Not only this, but the fact that the KKK was motivated more by nativism than a dogmatic dispute (like the one motivating the reformation) makes it a very bad example.
You're saying the KKK is a christian group. I agreed. All I said was that it is not representative/emblamatic/descriptive of Christianity in general. I don't see why you're making a big fuss about this. Would you equate the KKK with mainstream christian beliefs?
Again no:
You're making my point. Yes, the KKK was a certain type of Christian organization. But you cannot equivocate the KKK to Christianity writ large. What do you make of the fact that the KKK was anti-Catholic? That seems like a thorny issue for equating the KKK with Christian beliefs.
How do you get from this to "splintering the KKK off from Christianity completely?"
Since the KKK thing is going in circles, I'll respond to this since it's a fair point.
Why are you trying to defend something that encourages ignorance?
You could also say some good can come from a neo-conservative belief system. The possibility of good being created doesn't automatically justify something as an asset to mankind.
That might matter if the way people are wired is something we can control. Humans as a whole are an inherently narcissistic, greedy, and stupid group. That's not gonna change anytime soon, so a belief system that encourages narcissism and enables greed will always be used by humans in mostly bad ways.
I wouldn't say defend. The obvious point is that it's neither all good nor all bad. The real point I wanted to get across was that the belief system itself has less to do with the evil than the people using it to accomplish their own ends/goals/agendas etc... Which also is an obvious point I guess.
Agree 200%
Debatable whether christianity encourages narcissism or greed. I'm an atheist, so I'm not one to comment - but it seems to me there's the whole "meek shall inherit the earth/camel through a needle's eye" thing going on.
But your basic point is also one I agree with - people are narcissistic, greedy and stupid. Joel Osteen is a smart mother er because he's figured out a way to use a 2000 book to tap into that narcissism, greed and stupidity and make a lot of money from it. That doesn't mean that all Christianity is bad (which is all my point ever was); just that it's deployment is often used for evil .
And anti-catholicism is a fundamental protestant belief.
I'd argue both were indirectly motivated by financial oppression.
Not anymore. When the KKK was riding high in the 50s and 60s, yes. The Church as a whole endorsed segregation prior to the civil rights movement.
Many kinds of Muslims too.
Yeah exactly. I'd say the belief in free market, supply-side economics with deregulated trade and cheap goods itself isn't evil but it's used by plutocrats in order to trick people into believing that somehow letting the rich keep and hoard more wealth will benefit society. The belief itself is just over-simplified backwards logic that stupid people innocently believe, but it's used to promote plutocratic government.
I said it encourages narcissism and ENABLES greed. I guess it's debateable whether or not it directly encourages narcissism but it undoubtedly leads to narcissism. It might be more accurate to say it encourages illogical thinking which leads to narcissism.
Why not?
And if not the KKK, then who?
Because they practiced violence against other Christians.
I dunno who - or even if there could/should be one.
And by practiced I mean made it part of the groups raison d'etre
I'm pretty sure he was a Lutheran. He was a mathematics professor at a seminary school and was highly motivated throughout his career by his religious beliefs. Maybe I missed something there, but a few sources I looked at said his first inclination was to become a minister.
You're right in that practically all of those guys' works were rejected by the catholic church and many were accused of heresy. You'll never find me defending the catholic church. DoK made a throwaway statement about Christians perpetuating ridiculous and erroneous scientific views throughout history. I gave a simplistic response stating that many of the biggest breakthroughs in science were made by men of faith. I was basically saying he was right, but that it goes both ways. Overall, I think it's a moot point.
Roman Catholics waged war on Muslims
Southern Baptists whipped their slaves
If you can't say who should be, then you really can't automatically leave off the KKK
Maher is a piece of but he's right. There is no way that there would ever be a Broadway musical called "The Book of Islam". People are scared of offending Muslims and Islam but it's okay to offend Jews, Christians, and Mormons.
Gaycob hates Bill Maher because he's just like the people in this video
"It hasn't but it could!"
Gaycob hates Bill Maher because he's just like the people in this video
"It hasn't but it could!"
Yeah, Alexandra Pelosi likes to interview poor, uneducated people and show them on Bill's show. Here's another
“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”
- Marcus Aurelius
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