Now you are just lying. pathetic.
STFU could be interpreted as a threat the same as I can come down there and see if you could make me STFU -
Maybe we have a problem with semantics in here and the comprehension of words or lack of. maybe we have an issue that we are debating opinions and I willingly admit to calling people stupid - idiot etc - just as I have been called those same names and a troll and crap etc. - people belittled me and I responded in kind.
about >?
No, STFU is not a threat. Vulgarism, yes, but not a threat. Nor was your "make me" response. But when you said you'd come down here...that was your threat.
And no one called you names until you started throwing them out yourself. No one belittled you until you belittled them.
I stand by what I said...if you were merely "debating opinions", there wouldn't have been any problem. You weren't.
The Spurs gave Malik that contract and, curiously enough, very few were complaining about the contract when Malik was playing very good basketball in the 2003 playoffs and significantly helping the Spurs to a 2nd le. Few were complaining about that contract when Malik finished 6th in the Sixth Man voting that year. Now, did his subsequent play cause concern about the money spent? Sure. But could anyone go back and undo that contract at that point? No. And again, few were complaining about that contract in its first season.
That's a fairly convenient response. Sort of like, "it's just my opinion."I don't have any idea who was available at the time - I would take just about all of those players on that list over Malik though.
In any event, to refresh your recollection, here's a column from David Aldridge (who I suspect you'll dismiss, but who I'll use as a source anyway) describing his top 10, reasonably available free agents in the summer of 2002:
So, let's see: if you wanted a power forward type in the summer of 2002, the best choices were Malik Rose and Popeye Jones. If you wanted to expand that out to include any big man, you could get Wang Zhi-Zhi or Scott Williams.
Yes, I guess I do see the quarrel with the Spurs' decision.
But who else was available you ask? Well, here are some other names:
Walter McCarty
Eduardo Najera
Slava Medvedenko
Sam Mitc
Chris Dudley
Jerome James
Donyell Marshall
That doesn't strike me as a list of guys who could have helped a team aimed at winning a le -- though I suppose you'll cite me to your self-proclaimed center of the future Jerome James, who had 7 dunks on pick and rolls (and a whopping 3 rebounds) against the Spurs in one playoff game.
The market had about 1 power forward type; the Lakers were in need of a power forward type and the Spurs had the power to keep him away from LA. Hmmm; yeah, I guess that was unreasonable.
that is not true - i posted an article and responded to critiques - crap - troll etc and it digressed into stupid and idiot and then you topped it all with vulgar language - i played my part in responding -
i responded to you talking big
you called FWDT "punk" in your second post! No one had called you anything yet. You didn't throw down the first name?
You dropped your "don't question me" line and started crowing about how you "proved" your argument...you weren't talking big?
It digressed, yes...and there are multiple people here who participated in it...but your instigation of it is easily provable within the body of this thread.
[QUOTE=FromWayDowntown]The Spurs gave Malik that contract and, curiously enough, very few were complaining about the contract when Malik was playing very good basketball in the 2003 playoffs and significantly helping the Spurs to a 2nd le. Few were complaining about that contract when Malik finished 6th in the Sixth Man voting that year. Now, did his subsequent play cause concern about the money spent? Sure. But could anyone go back and undo that contract at that point? No. And again, few were complaining about that contract in its first season.
That's a fairly convenient response. Sort of like, "it's just my opinion."
In any event, to refresh your recollection, here's a column from David Aldridge (who I suspect you'll dismiss, but who I'll use as a source anyway) describing his top 10, reasonably available free agents in the summer of 2002:
So, let's see: if you wanted a power forward type in the summer of 2002, the best choices were Malik Rose and Popeye Jones. If you wanted to expand that out to include any big man, you could get Wang Zhi-Zhi or Scott Williams.
Yes, I guess I do see the quarrel with the Spurs' decision.
But who else was available you ask? Well, here are some other names:
Walter McCarty
Eduardo Najera
Slava Medvedenko
Sam Mitc
Chris Dudley
Jerome James
Donyell Marshall
That doesn't strike me as a list of guys who could have helped a team aimed at winning a le -- though I suppose you'll cite me to your self-proclaimed center of the future Jerome James, who had 7 dunks on pick and rolls (and a whopping 3 rebounds) against the Spurs in one playoff game.
I repeat if Malik was still here signed through 2009 on that contract sitting at the end -- very end of the bench if not released would you still be happy ?
interesting to note the topic of that article is " best pickings from slim free agent crop" Eduardo Najera would have served basically the same purpose as Rose for probably half the cost and half the length. He also would have sold tickets. signing Najera would have freed up even more money to go after say Karl Malone who the Lakers got the following year and would have looked really good in a Spurs uniform. There is always more to the story than the bias facts you pull.
i responded to a no link no cred comment and a "crap" comment.
about not talking big.about >?
You have told people that you "bust your ase" (not sure what an "ase" is)
You have also told people that you are better than them in basketball when in actuality you don't know that because you do not know the level of those respective people's basketball skill yet you assume you can beat them...that is arrogance and arrogance is talking big.
You have also told people that since you did play basketball you know more than they do about the game with statements like "well you didn't play so I guess you don't know" which is also arrogance because you do not know the level of their basketball a en.
If someone disagrees with you, you deride them as less intelligent than you for the sole reason that they don't agree with you, which is also arrogance.
You talk a whole bunch of (yes I said ...ooh I am not as good as you are
that is totally agreeable - except the bust your ase comment refers to basketball and nothing else. - on the court.about not talking big.
You have told people that you "bust your ase" (not sure what an "ase" is)
You have also told people that you are better than them in basketball when in actuality you don't know that because you do not know the level of those respective people's basketball skill yet you assume you can beat them...that is arrogance and arrogance is talking big.
You have also told people that since you did play basketball you know more than they do about the game with statements like "well you didn't play so I guess you don't know" which is also arrogance because you do not know the level of their basketball a en.
If someone disagrees with you, you deride them as less intelligent than you for the sole reason that they don't agree with you, which is also arrogance.
You talk a whole bunch of (yes I said ...ooh I am not as good as you are
fair enough but my point still stand...you don't KNOW that. You are assuming and to assume is arrogant. I mean, I know you can probably take me on the court but that is like saying USC will beat the local High School team in football. I love to play but I have never been very good. Now as far as knowledge of the game as well as its history....I will take my chances against anyone but I cannot assume I know more than someone without knowing that person and the extent of their knowledge. But to assume you are better than someone without actually knowing their talent level is talking big.that is totally agreeable - except the bust your ase comment refers to basketball and nothing else. - on the court.
I agree with that too - and I think every single person on this board is guilty of that.
ok fine...but then don't accuse others of it while claiming you don't...
All of which might have happened had Malik's contract, in fact, been completely unresaonable. Instead, Malik's contract was reasonable enough for your basketball guru, Isiah Thomas, to see a justification for a trade to acquire that contract. Either Isiah is not as keen a basketball mind as you proclaim him to be, because he acquires unreasonable contracts in a willy-nilly fashion or Isiah believed that Malik's contract was fairly reasonable. Which one is it?
You know, I never said it was a great free agent crop. My defense of the signing has been entirely based on the fact that it was reasonable in the market that existed at the time. The only relevant components of that market were: a scarcity of big men, a close compe or in need of a big man, and the market price for guys like Malik. In light of those three factors (scarcity, demand, market price) the contract certainly doesn't seem unreasonable.
Fine, except that Najera has never, ever been as productive in any facet of his game as Malik, which makes him a vastly inferior player -- half the cost for half the length and half the production likely would have hampered the Spurs chances at the le in 2003.
As for your Malone theory, you forget that Mailman didn't sign with the Lakers because they offered him more money than the Spurs did. The Spurs made an offer to Malone in the summer of 2003 that was identical to the offer the Lakers made; each offered Malone the veteran exception of $1.5 million.
I suppose you could argue that Malone would have signed in San Antonio if there had been more money available, but then again, the Spurs had the most capspace in the NBA that summer. They used the ample cap space they had to pursue Jason Kidd, Jermaine O'Neal, Elton Brand, and others. Because they were making those offers and would have preferred to have those guys over all others who were available, there's nothing that says that the Spurs would have offered up more money to Malone.
And nobody knows if more money would have made a difference to Malone. In 2003, Malone said that he wasn't going to go to a team that had won a le. He also tied his fate to Gary Payton's. The Spurs were disqualified on both fronts, since they were the reigning champions that summer and did not pursue Payton.
I see your point but I disagree to a point. We have several who do, but to be fair several who don't as well.I agree with that too - and I think every single person on this board is guilty of that.
Yeah, you know I don't think most of us really resort to the "I'll bust your ase on the basketball court" as evidence to support our arguments.
To the extent that your credibility has been questioned here, the judgment is based entirely upon what you've written.
Honestly, I don't care if you can play basketball -- if your arguments evidence thoughtful consideration of objective facts to reach a conclusion, I'll respect that. I'll respect a disagreement with my opinion, too, if that disagreement has some reasonable basis. But just trying to shout me down with "I played D-1 hoop and can bust your ase" isn't really persuasive.
Just as my pedigree playing D-1 football gives me no extra credibility in the football forum, your pedigree playing D-1 basketball gives you no extra credibility here.
I question you credibility - heck I question anyone's credibility. WHo decides who is credible ?
there is no objective analysis when discussing performance. You can put it down on statistics - or salaries -and attempt to make it subjective but there are too many other variables. - for example with najera and malik - well malik averaged 6 _ per game with Dallas 5 boards (comparable to Malik) and that was as the 6th option when he was on the floor ( with only 5 guys on the court). Last year he averaged 7 and 5 and that was only thruogh 26 games. He is a high energy player who does the dirty work and he would have been just as much the player Malik Rose was for the Spurs -- in my opinion and at a much lower price. The thing with Zeke taking Rose - they gave up on Nazr and they should have. He wasn't performing in that system - but he is perfect for the Spurs and what the Spurs want him to do.
Malone was just one of the options they could have had that year. THey were silly to pursue Jason Kidd who is a highly overrated PG anyway. We already have a PG that can't shoot - why would you want to trade for another one ? There were other players they could have focused on with more money. We will just have to agree to disagree - I was never a big fan of Malik's game.
again...a fair point but you seem to take offense when someone questions yours, and by your own logic, they have the right.I question you credibility - heck I question anyone's credibility. WHo decides who is credible
You can have your opinion about me adding in your quote, but the FACT is that the post has the stamp
Last edited by ambchang : 10-11-2005 at 07:20 PM, while YOU responded to the post Yesterday, 12:16 AM (Yesteday meaning 10-12-2005). I can't help it that you cannot read the original post, and that is fine, people miss parts of post, what I cannot believe is that not only did you make a mistake, you made a mistake and lied about it, then insinuated that I did, knowing that it was you who first make the mistakes. Is this how you got your top 10% finish in your law class?
I did get McGrady wrong, I said Isiah drafted McGrady, and I admitted it. You said Isiah drafted Carter, which he didn't. I never said Carter replaced Thomas, I said Carter was the coach who couldn't get along with McGrady, and caused him to leave. I said Thomas replaced Bird and made the Pacers a worse team, and Carlisle replaced Thomas to make them a better team, meaning the basketball playing ability has NO correlation to basketball mind. And that was your original assertion. Are you now going to start arguing how Shawn Kemp is a better mind than Larry Brown, or how Phil Jackson is a better player than Steve Francis.
The original argument is not whether NBA.com has their data updated, or how many times Bruce Bowen was credited with the All D team on the official site of the NBA, it was about whether or not he made it in consecutive years. And he did. So you were wrong.
But what good does that do for the Raptors? Isiah created a terrible organization to work for, and Damon Stoudemire and TMac left Toronto because of that. Camby did not fit in with the Raptors at the time, and with a number 2 pick, the Raptors could have drafted Sareef Abdur-Rahim, Marbury, your boy Ray Allen, Kobe Bryant (he was straight out of high school, and it wasn't usual for teams to do that back then, so I can excuse this), Peja (he was from abroad, same as above), Steve Nash, or Jermaine O'Neal (see Kobe).
And you still haven't come up with anything to back up your claim that the defense of the Spurs would be minimal if Bowen was replaced with Allen. Neither have you talked about anything to do with salary cap consideration, nor have you addressed how trading for a guy like Allen solely for the purposes of opening up the offense with his outside shooting could validate a $15 million salary, given that that very same option is available for a much much lower price.
Still couldn't read, could you. I will write this for the nth time to get through that thick skull of yours. My post was last edited TWO days ago, and I did it for grammatical changes. Your FIRST reply to my post was YESTERDAY.
You were proven wrong time and time again on this front, and you are trying to weasel out of not reading my response properly by attacking my integrity. You have no credibility and quite frankly, I wonder how you finished top 10% in your class, any class, regardless of whether it was law.
This part irks me. What the do you know about what I can comprehend or not? I have a very celar understanding of the cap. Dan Rosenbaum made it easy for me to understand how it all works. Any other questions I had, were answered by Larry Coon. So yeah. I COMPREHEND THE CAP.I don't need you to explain the cap to me - especially with the new CBA and since you probably don't even comprehend it.
Dude...do you understand how dense you can be?interesting to note the topic of that article is " best pickings from slim free agent crop" Eduardo Najera would have served basically the same purpose as Rose for probably half the cost and half the length. He also would have sold tickets. signing Najera would have freed up even more money to go after say Karl Malone who the Lakers got the following year and would have looked really good in a Spurs uniform. There is always more to the story than the bias facts you pull.
It's very apparent that you will not budge on your opinion. I say fiscally responsible and it shows with all of their signings, including Rose & Nesterovic if you look at it in terms of applied over time. Signing Parker to $66 Mill and Manu to $58 Mil was downright amazing, when you consider the terms of many of the contracts around the L with other lesser talented players. Rasho's contract is such that if Nazr doesn't want to re-sign at a Spur level, then he could easily be going away.
I mean really. Eddie Najera would have sold tickets how? Now freing up cash to sign Karl Malone? I recall Mr. Malone signed for the league minimum. It was never about money for Karl and he seriously considered signing with SA but got a recruitment phone call from Shaq. I'll bold it for you to make it crystal clear...IT WAS NEVER ABOUT MONEY FOR MALONE
You know you remind me of Shaq...Like him you like to Self Proclaim. He wasn't the MDE and I find your opinions to be self-centered.
Whatever, I've yet to see one article support any of your self-procliamed opinions and hypotheses.
It's more of that, well...I ball better than you so I know the game better stuff. I disagree.
Last edited by Man In Black; 10-13-2005 at 01:04 PM.
Damn, even by a lawyer's standards this implacable44 is one arrogant . And anybody who thinks Pop would go near Jerome James with a ten foot pole .... LMAO.
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