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What's weak is you tinking Artest is better than Parker and Ginobili and then saying Indiana will accept Nazr+Barry in a trade for Ron ron
Because there would be way too much talent to get the shots around. Parker, Ginobili, and Duncan is already a bunch as it is (and they manage pretty well together, all are very unselfish for the most part) and then add Artest with Finley and our bench, thats too much talent for the ball to go around. But definitely don't misinterpret me, I do NOT want Artest on this team.
And the fans would hate it, everyone is in love with Parker and Ginobili.
What's weak is you tinking Artest is better than Parker and Ginobili and then saying Indiana will accept Nazr+Barry in a trade for Ron ron
I would never include Manu or TP in a trade for Artest, but the argument that he is a cancer has been overdone in my opinion. There have been many times that the Spurs have picked up a supposed "cancer" and things worked out. Glenn Robinson, Ron Mercer (at least until he wanted out for more pt, but it was all professional) and Nick X to name a few. 70% of me wants the team as it is for chemistry reasons and 30% of me wants him to come just to see the possiblities if he behaves himself and is willing to come off the bench. Having 4 all NBA defensive team type players is a luxury that I don't think any team in NBA history has been awarded (I may be wrong). In all honesty though, the chances of him coming are very small and the chances that he wouldn't be some kind of disturbance is even smaller.
He's ruined the championship aspirations of a very good team two years in a row. I don't know how that can be overstated.the argument that he is a cancer has been overdone in my opinion.
I guess I meant his influence as a cancer on the Spurs. I should of said his impact as a cancer on the Spurs. I also said I really don't want him here, but for the sake of the potential to add an all league talent to an already loaded squad, it's totally a curiosity, not a wish. But then again, curiosity did kill the cat.
You can't compare NVE, Big Dog with Artest.
Big Dog was a $200k gamble over 3 month.
NVE is a $700k gamble over 1 year.
Artest is a $30M gamble over 4 years.
If you add that Artest is way more psycho than these guys, it's a very risky move.
As said before, if Artest was expiring, yes. but no with his contract. I don't see Spurs front office ready to bet so much money.
If Artest ruins the chemistry, we can't waive him contrary to NVE, Big Dog and Mercer.
pacers are fighting among themselves without reggie
pacers need to get rid of either tinsley,jackson,oneal or ron
they are all to high strung players to play on the same team
ron may be helping them win a championship or atleast getting back to becoming a contender with getting rid of ron if they get anytalent back
it was not completly ron's fault that jackson and oneal went into the stands
it was ron's fault that he went crazy but jackson and oneal did that on their own
If the Spurs want to trade for Artest, what are they going to offer?
The Pacers want a pairing of either a promising young player, an expiring contract or a player who can help to win now.
The Spurs don't have a promising young player (Beno isn't playing, Oberto is 30 years old)
The Spurs do have an expiring contract with Nazr but it won't be enough.
The players who can help the Pacers win now without Artest are Manu, Parker, Duncan and Bowen.
Duncan will never be traded.
Parker is the futur of the Spurs.
Manu could be the guy? Just watch some tapes of the last playoffs and any Spurs fan should see him as untradable.
I think that the best shot will be to trade Bowen. I think that a guy like Bird won't underestimate what Bowen brings to the table and he could be a very good replacement for Artest.
We should probably throw in Oberto and maybee even Finley.
Will Pop and RC do it? I don't think it is too out of mind. It remembers a little what happened in that Rose for Nazr trade last year. Sure Bowen is a lot better than Malik was but so is Artest and Nazr.
You know when I see Ronnie...I think Roy Tarpley or Michael Ray Richardson all over again, except in this case Ronnie don't need the rock cocaine to go crazy, he pretty much can do that all on his own.
The only way to make Indiana THINK about the trade is to offer Manu. No chance they Pacers would give SA another quality player just for Barry/Oberto or Nazr...
I wonder when the Trade will go down and who Indiana will trade with...
There is no way on earth the Pacers would trade Artest to the Spurs, unless it was for Tim Duncan. And that's plain stupid.
I don't think the Pacers are dumb enough to trade Artest to a le contender unless the deal is too good for them to pass up(i.e.Ginobili)...
Why would they give him a shot at a ring with the way he's disrupted their organization?
What's weak is not being able to look at another team (Indiana) and recognize their needs, strengths, and weaknesses.What's weak is you tinking Artest is better than Parker and Ginobili and then saying Indiana will accept Nazr+Barry in a trade for Ron ron
But that's typical for the majority of this board.
Indiana needs inside depth (Nazr). They need a reliable point guard (Beno). And they need a shooting guard (Barry).
They can take care of all their needs with one trade.
Who else would the Spurs take back from Indiana? Because Barry+Nazr+Beno is about 11M, right?
Also, they've been offered ALL-STARS for Artest. Why would they take scrubs?
I might buy the Nazr argument even though Foster has come back and Croshere has been decent, but Beno isn't going to supplant any of their three point guards and I'm not sure Barry is going to get them too excited as a starting SG -- I mean this is 38 minutes and 19 ppg they're looking to replace, to say nothing of the defense. Is this really the closest Walsh could come to equal value? Especially if another deal could take a deal like Croshere's off his hands?
The fact that only TPark agrees with you speaks volumes
That's what I don't get. If it's true that the Pacers can deal Artest for guys with All-Star credentials -- I've read rumors of Marbury and Carter -- or for young, talented guys -- Al Harrington's name surfaces -- why on Earth would they deal for a group of 30-somethings. I could see it if they thought they were a couple of role players away from a le run, but I don't see that they can deal Artest AND remain only a couple of role players short.
If I was a Pacers' fan and Walsh dealt Artest to the Spurs for the back-end of the Spurs' bench, I'd be bent. If he's not going to bring back talent-for-talent, then he needs to at least bring in role players with attractive contracts, but neither Oberto nor Barry fits that characterization, either. Unless every other rumor is just plain wrong, the Spurs' ostensible offer is pretty weak in that market.
What? A 62-win team wasn't enough for him?
What are some good sports websites to check out trade rumors?? Of course ESPN takes the weekend off when it comes to reporting rumors.
It's not as though the Spurs are desperate for a trade--or am I missing something? Spurs lead the league at 18-4.
And if we wanted Artest badly enough to make a trade, allowing for the possibility he might crash and burn as a locker room personality, isn't Manu the only Spur of comparable value? All-star for All-star?
I bet the Spurs make more money off of Manu T-shirts and memorabilia in Latin American countries than his salary. He's an untradeable asset for that reason alone.
Artest to the Spurs?
Smells like bull to me.
Foster? Also, isn't Reggie's salary still on the books this year? For some reason I was thinking it was.Who else would the Spurs take back from Indiana? Because Barry+Nazr+Beno is about 11M, right?
Also, they've been offered ALL-STARS for Artest. Why would they take scrubs?[/quote]
I don't buy the All-Star rumors. That's Walsh trying to sweeten the offers IMO. The only A-S caliber name I've seen is Vince, and I just don't see NJ making that switch when they're running Jefferson and Vince together at the swing spots. NJ needs big men, not swing men.
The other name is Marbury, and I've already seen that one put down because Isiah won't send out any of his young guys for Artest.
^^ Agreed.
I think its Walsh not the other teams, saying hes been offered All stars, to sweeten other deals.
Barry, Beno, Oberto/Nazr
Either one, offer it up.
Duncan, Manu and Bruce Bowen are off the table.
If at all possible, barry, horry, and nazr along with the rights to Scola should be retained as well.
That leaves Tony Parker and Rasho as the main trade bait. Throw in Finley and Beno, no problem.
Keep Van Exel at this point.
That would leave,
5 Nazr
4 TD
3 Artest
2 Bowen
1 Van Exel
Manu
Horry
Barry
Oberto
filling out the bench.
It does leave us light at the 5, no doubt. But Rasho's contributions are easily replaced imo.
Imagine Bruce and Artest Locking down on D, with TD and Naz guarding the paint.
And on offense? Bruce and Van Exel camped out for the open 3. Naz on board duty and TD and Artest getting the job done inside and out, via score or assist.
And then have Manu coming off the bench? Barry ready to play backup point if/when needed.
Bring Scola aboard next year or trade his rights for a decent big man and the Spurs have the next few rings locked up. NO Matter what the heat or pistons do.
What do ya think?
and while i agree with concerns about team chemistry, you gotta realize, we are the hunted right now.
i don't want to wait to be knocked off to be hungry to stay on top. Rasho just doesn't cut it. Parker is 100% Speed. Age tends to wear that down. Parker is GREAT, don't get me wrong, but if the Spurs had a chance to get Artest? A Perrenial Defender of the Year? A nice guy, in spite of past mistakes and what people think. A guy that lost his head once and did something that he's LEARNED FROM! A guy almost, almost, willing to go toe to toe with Big Ben Wallace? A guy that can learn from Bruce Bowen?
Defense wins championships. Pop Will Make the Chemistry work. And if not? Well, there are Many many takers for Ron Artest. It's not like he wouldn't be tradeable. But i'm betting our Spurs would keep him around for along time once the trophies start piling up.
And I realize that Van Ex is not a fulltime starter anymore, but if that's the case? We can Start Manu Ginobili at the Point.
Manu, Bruce, Artest, TD, Nazr.
Barry, Horry, Van Ex, Oberto off the bench.
I'd like another Big though. What's Kwillis doing these days?
If Marbury is one of their "young guys", I hope Zeke is providing Ensure in their locker room.The other name is Marbury, and I've already seen that one put down because Isiah won't send out any of his young guys for Artest.
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