Bowen's Knee to Nash Under Review?

[ChumpDumper]

Are you seriously trying to tell me that a clothesline is a safe move in basketball?

Do me a favor and pull one of those in your next pickup game. Let us all know how it turns out.

[THE SIXTH MAN]

He didn't pretend he was not fouling, did he? And he didn't play dirty foot/kick defense, did he? That was more like WWW show. Raja was frustrated that Kobe swiped his famous elbows at him, and got his face, repeatedly in an attempt to clear space, without fouls being called. The refs called those in game 7. More importantly, where is an injury caused by Raja comparing to the cases caused by Bowen?

So because poor little raja was frustrated, it justifies that close line?

[ChumpDumper]

More arm risking.

[cly2tw]

Are you seriously trying to tell me that a clothesline is a safe move in basketball?

Do me a favor and pull one of those in your next pickup game. Let us all know how it turns out.

If you have the vid, you will see Raja made it sure by holding him down to the floor to avoid any injury to Kobe. Otherwise, the punishment wouldn't be just 1 game. Hey, it's the injury cases we are talking about. In that regard, you seem to agree with me that Raja is clean, compared to Bowen's track record, right?

[cly2tw]

So because poor little raja was frustrated, it justifies that close line?

No. He got punished. That's why Bowen got voted for defensive player: He causes injuries and intimidates his opponents along the process without being punished, since in each single case it looks like an accident!

[ChumpDumper]

The funniest thing about this business is that Raja Bell was hired specifically to be the Bruce Bowen of the Phoenix Suns, just like Greg Buckner was signed by Denver and Dallas and Sacramento got Artest. Every team wants a stopper, and any fan of a team who has players like Bruce and trying to paint Bruce as some evil character for playing the same way as their heroes is a flaming hypocrite.

[THE SIXTH MAN]

Even more arm risking.

[ChumpDumper]

Clotheslines are proven to be safe and effective in basketball.

[cly2tw]

More arm risking.

Did I claim Raja never fouled?

And you really need to resort to forgery with your last post putting words as my quotes, don't you?

[THE SIXTH MAN]

No. He got punished.

So then why are you defending it in the post that I quoted you on?

[ChumpDumper]

No, I'm just getting to the core of your argument without all the fluff in which you try to disguise it.

Clothesline good.

[THE SIXTH MAN]

[THE SIXTH MAN]

[Slippy]

Bowen does the same movement a couple of plays later, only this time Nash isn't in Bowen's grill. No harm done.

It's a clear out move with the pivot foot to give your-self space.. which i always thought was legal as long as you watch the elbows. The NBA is probably taking notice because of the Sun's constant whining but no way should he be penalised for it.

[Behrooz24]

If you have the vid, you will see Raja made it sure by holding him down to the floor to avoid any injury to Kobe. Otherwise, the punishment wouldn't be just 1 game. Hey, it's the injury cases we are talking about. In that regard, you seem to agree with me that Raja is clean, compared to Bowen's track record, right?

A safe clothesline?

[UV Ray]

Hey, I'm a Laker fan and not only do we have more rings than your franchise will ever win, but we also beat this Spurs group in 3 of 5 playoff meetings.

Calling Bowen dirty is like calling Jessica Alba a hottie. It's so obvious it's not even an opinion but basically a factual statement for anyone outside of SA limits.

There's not one player in the NBA who does the foot under the jump shooter move with the leg kicking waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out in an awkward, unnatural motion besides Bowen.

It's pretty clear that Bowen's intention here is at best:

1) Make the opponent think about whether he's going to sprain his ankle and limp off the court instead of shooting his jumper.

or at worst:

2) Injure the player.

Whether it's 1 or 2 is debatable. But either way, this is not what sportsmanship or basketball is about. Ray Allen said it best when he said what Bowen is doing is not basketball. It's pure cowardice.

Anyone outside of SA can see it and quite frankly I know a good # of Spurs fans who do see it but frankly don't care about it. Their opinion is basically "I know Bowen's dirty, but he's on my team and frankly I dont give a $hit." I completely understand this line of thinking.

If you have a child who's a "problem child" you aren't going to love him any less because he makes mistakes, even if they are bad. No one is saying because you are a Sprus fan, you should hate Bowen.

But to deny he's dirty, come on! That's just laughable.

Well stated...Bowen makes Bill Laimbeer look like a Girl Scout. I don't think Bowen can help himself...it's pathological. Sad really...I thought the NBA would have moved past this kind of thuggery by now. It's no surprise that most of the comments in this forum support San Antonio Bullyball, but please don't call what Bowen is playing, basketball. If you were truly fans of the game you'd be disgusted.

[Dro210]

Well stated...Bowen makes Bill Laimbeer look like a Girl Scout. I don't think Bowen can help himself...it's pathological. Sad really...I thought the NBA would have moved past this kind of thuggery by now. It's no surprise that most of the comments in this forum support San Antonio Bullyball, but please don't call what Bowen is playing, basketball. If you were truly fans of the game you'd be disgusted.

Thugery? San Antonio Bullyball?



That whole paragraph/co-signing sounds like something I would say sarcastically... very, very sarcastically

[Dro210]

Twice as physical is a crazy exaggeration.

Also, the guys in question, MJ, and Pip, weren't the physical types you are thinking about. You're thinking about Derek Harper, Joe Dumars, Piston Bad Boys, Knicks of Pat Riley, etc.

Regardless, it's crazy to say Bowen has the impact as a team defender than MJ/Scottie. Those guys would impact not only the guys they were guarding but the entire opponent's offense beign so disruptive in passing lanes and shotblockers.

Look at their steal #'s compared to Bowen's. It's just night and day.

Using steals as a scale on judging how good of a defender a player is tells me all I need to know....

You don't know much about basketball

[Dro210]

So this is where suns fans come to cry.

Indeed it is.... and too think the series isn't even close to over really...

I knew the Suns and Mavs had more in common than not being able to play defense or win the big one.... ass fans!

[powerpower]

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_ar..._knee_on_nash/

NBA Investigating Bowen's Game 3 Knee On Nash
14th May, 2007 - 6:42 am
abc13 -
The NBA has decided to look into Bruce Bowen's actions in the Spurs-Suns series.

For the first time in an increasingly contentious San Antonio Spurs -Phoenix Suns series, Bruce Bowen is officially under the league's microscope.
Bowen

An NBA spokesman confirmed Sunday night that Bowen's third-quarter knee to the groin of Suns guard Steve Nash in Saturday's Game 3 is under review for possible punishment.

Nash declined after Saturday's game and again Sunday to voice any public displeasure with Bowen's physical play. But the league decided anyway to conduct a full investigation into this incident after declining to do so when Bowen was accused of intentionally kicking Amare Stoudemire in Game 2.

Stoudemire called Bowen and Manu Ginobili "dirty" players after the Game 2 tangle, in which Bowen admitted he "did clip" Stoudemire from behind on a dunk.

If the league decides to fine or suspend Bowen, that announcement would come before Monday night's Game 4. [READ]

[WalterBenitez]

So are still because a playoff mode of playing , I see hey aren't ready

[bobbyjoe]

Using steals as a scale on judging how good of a defender a player is tells me all I need to know....

You don't know much about basketball

Anyone without silver and black eyeglasses on would tell you that Jordan and Pippen were better defenders than Bruce Bowen. It's just not even close.

If you had reading comprehension skills, you'd be able to decipher that I never argued steals are the be-all, end-all for how good a defender someone is. MJ and Pip were as good on ball as Bruce but MUCH better off the ball as team defenders. The steal and block #'s bear that out as does a set of basic observational skills.

But if you argue that steals have nothing to do with how good a defender is, you just don't know what you're talking about. Steals and blocks kill offensive possesions from opponents and typically lead to easy transition offensive opportunities.

When a guy like MJ in some years has averaged over 3 steals a game, absolutely he's impacting the game more than a guy with 0.5 steals a game like Bowen. That's a 4-6 point turnaround MJ is giving you over Bowen before other facets of defense are even factored in.

Also, a guy with a great # of steals is going to have numerous more plays a game where he's deflecting passes and taking away passing lanes. Plays like this don't show up in the stat sheet but impact an offensive team in a negative way. There's a high degree of correlation between guys with big steal #'s and disruptive team defenders (see DRob, Hakeem, Gary Payton, MJ, Scottie, AK47, etc).

Bowen has always been great on the ball but you are kidding yourself if you think he's in the class of the above as a team defender. Not even freaking close.

[ponky]

I can't wait for all the Mavs losers to come on here and equate clearing space with your leg to punching a guy in the nuts.

You rang? Anyway, you're wrong about all the Mavs loser (god, you guys never learn), it's not the same because we can't really tell if Bowen meant to or not whereas Terry obviously punched Finley and deserved the suspension BUT I'm not surprised D'Antoni will use every thing he can to get an advantage over the Spurs...most coaches would, it's part of the game, just like flopping and injuries so all is fair.

[Dro210]

Anyone without silver and black eyeglasses on would tell you that Jordan and Pippen were better defenders than Bruce Bowen. It's just not even close.

If you had reading comprehension skills, you'd be able to decipher that I never argued steals are the be-all, end-all for how good a defender someone is. MJ and Pip were as good on ball as Bruce but MUCH better off the ball as team defenders. The steal and block #'s bear that out as does a set of basic observational skills.

But if you argue that steals have nothing to do with how good a defender is, you just don't know what you're talking about. Steals and blocks kill offensive possesions from opponents and typically lead to easy transition offensive opportunities.

When a guy like MJ in some years has averaged over 3 steals a game, absolutely he's impacting the game more than a guy with 0.5 steals a game like Bowen. That's a 4-6 point turnaround MJ is giving you over Bowen before other facets of defense are even factored in.

Also, a guy with a great # of steals is going to have numerous more plays a game where he's deflecting passes and taking away passing lanes. Plays like this don't show up in the stat sheet but impact an offensive team in a negative way. There's a high degree of correlation between guys with big steal #'s and disruptive team defenders (see DRob, Hakeem, Gary Payton, MJ, Scottie, AK47, etc).

Bowen has always been great on the ball but you are kidding yourself if you think he's in the class of the above as a team defender. Not even freaking close.

So by your reasoning.... a guy like, say... Allen Iverson... or Gilbert Arenas....

Those are great defenders? Because they get alot of steals? Really? You have to get steals to be a good off the ball defender? Really? You can't just deny the best player on the opposing team of the ball the whole game?

I never said Jordan and Pippen wern't great defenders...the ?.... All I said is using steals as a scale for judging somebody's impact at the defensive end is just stupidity. Bowen doesn't have to get a single steal all year as long as he keeps holding the Dirks and Kobe's of the league to a good 10pts below their average every night. ( 4-6 maybe, maybe not points)

I dare you to ask around the NBA.... Anybody (player or coach) who's not a complete crybaby (i.e. Wince Harder or Ray Allen... add Stat and D'Antoni) is gonna tell you that he's the best defender in the NBA right now, probably tell you he's the best they've ever faced, and that they have nightmares knowing they have to go up against him. Anybody.... Ask Kobe... Kobe'll tell you. He loves and hates playin Bruce.

He's not a perrinial 1st team All-NBA defender for nothing.

[word]

my favorite thing about this board is that if you cant win an argument you

a) call us crybabies

b) talk about your rings or your series lead

c) call people crybabies

Stop being a crybaby.