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  1. #251
    I refuse to act with common decency spurscenter's Avatar
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    this MO FO LOOKS LIKE HE RUNS THE ING MOB



    BOB DELANEY. lol

    Testified before Congress in 1981 during hearings on Organized Crime led by Senator Sam Nunn.

    http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74427
    Last edited by spurscenter; 07-21-2007 at 04:37 AM.

  2. #252
    Believe. Shred's Avatar
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    Jul 21, 6:22 AM EDT


    FBI probes whether NBA ref bet on games

    By BRIAN MAHONEY
    AP Basketball Writer

    A point-shaving scandal is an enormous problem in any sport. This one, which might involve an NBA referee, has the potential to permanently scar the league.

    The NBA acknowledged Friday the FBI is investigating Tim Donaghy for betting on games, including ones in which he officiated.

    "It's a shame," the Los Angeles Lakers' Kobe Bryant said. "It's just unfortunate. ... Like I said, it's a very serious issue."

    According to a law enforcement official, authorities are examining whether the referee made calls to affect the point spread in games on which he or associates had wagered thousands of dollars over the past two seasons.

    The referee had a gambling problem and was approached by low-level mob associates through an acquaintance, said the official, who spoke to the AP on condition of anonymity because he wasn't authorized to discuss the ongoing investigation.

    Gambling long has been a problem in sports, and leagues have made a point of educating players of the potential pitfalls. The NBA, for example, discusses gambling at rookie orientation, even bringing in former mobster Michael Franceze to speak.

    And the NBA dealt with negative stories about its officials earlier this year when an academic study detailed a bias by referees against players of the opposite color. The league requires its officials to file reports and defend or discuss every questionable call they make in a game.

    Donaghy, who reportedly has resigned, was an NBA official for 13 years. He officiated 68 games in the 2005-06 season and 63 games in 2006-07, according to the Elias Sports Bureau. He also worked 20 playoff games, including five last season - Pistons-Magic on April 23; Warriors-Mavericks on April 27; Suns-Lakers on April 29; Nets-Raptors on May 4; and Spurs-Suns on May 12.

    Those studying Donaghy's games might have noticed some trends.

    When the home team was favored by 0-4 1/2 points, it went 5-12 against the spread in games officiated by Donaghy this season, according to Covers.com, a Web site that tracks referee trends. Home underdogs were 1-7 against the spread when it was 5-9.5 points.

    Donaghy was part of a crew working the Heat-Knicks game in New York in February when the Knicks shot 39 free throws to the Heat's eight, technical fouls were called on Heat coach Pat Riley and assistant Ron Rothstein, and the Knicks won by six. New York was favored by 4 1/2.

    Defense attorney John Lauro confirmed Donaghy is under investigation, but refused to comment on the allegations or the case.

    "They are serious allegations," the leader of the referees' union, Lamell McMorris told the Philadelphia Inquirer. "It's an ongoing federal investigation. And we don't really have much more to say about it, and neither do the referees."

    In Bradenton, Fla., a woman came to the door of the home where Donaghy lives and shouted through the door: "We have no comment."

    Donaghy is perhaps best-known previously as one of the referees in the 2004 game at Detroit that ended with Indiana Pacers players fighting with Pistons fans, among the biggest black marks in league history.

    This could top it.

    "We would like to assure our fans that no amount of effort, time or personnel is being spared to assist in this investigation, to bring to justice an individual who has betrayed the most sacred trust in professional sports, and to take the necessary steps to protect against this ever happening again," commissioner David Stern said in a statement.

    Stern's statement said the FBI is investigating allegations a "single" referee bet on basketball. But the law enforcement official said other arrests are expected.

    NBA players in Las Vegas for USA Basketball minicamp were surprised and disappointed to learn of the accusations.

    Denver Nuggets forward Carmelo Anthony said he was confident the NBA would sort it out.

    "I'm pretty sure they're going to take care of it when they find out what's going on, so I leave it up to them," he said. "It's shocking. I'm pretty sure they're going to get to the bottom of it."

    Nevada gambling regulators were not involved in an investigation and had no information about the allegations, said Jerry Markling, enforcement chief for the state Gaming Commission and Gaming Control Board.

    Veteran oddsmaker John Avello, at the Wynn resort on the Las Vegas Strip, said that without specific information it would be difficult to identify wagering irregularities over the last two seasons.

    "At this point, it's too early to know if any games were affected," Avello said.

    The law enforcement official said the referee was aware of the investigation and had made arrangements to surrender as early as next week to face charges.

    The investigation was first reported Friday by the New York Post.

    "I'm shocked, terribly shocked," said Gary Benson, an NBA official for 17 years who retired two years ago.

    Benson said he didn't work with Donaghy much.

    "You have a lot of acquaintances and very few friends. ... I probably worked a handful of games with him overall, just a handful."

    Donaghy's neighbors in Bradenton also knew little about the man who has grabbed the attention of the NBA and FBI.

    Bob Girard, who lives near Donaghy in a gated community along a golf course, said he only noticed one thing out of the ordinary about his neighbor.

    "His house just went up for sale," said Girard, who recalled Donaghy moving into the neighborhood less than a year ago.

    When Girard saw the news of the NBA betting scandal on TV, he wondered whether it might involve his neighbor, the NBA referee with daughters who sometimes sold lemonade in front of their house for five cents a cup.

    "They've got a nice family," Girard said. "They seem to be a pretty normal family to me."

    ---

    Associated Press Writer Pat Milton in New York, AP Writer Ken Ritter in Las Vegas, AP Sports Writers Noah Trister in Little Rock, Ark., and Fred Goodall in Bradenton, Fla., contributed to this report.

    © 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. Learn more about our Privacy Policy.

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  3. #253
    I refuse to act with common decency spurscenter's Avatar
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    HIM

    I hope his daughter paid taxes on that lemonaide or else the IRS should come down on her.

  4. #254
    Believe. CubanMustGo's Avatar
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    Here shred, you need some of this:


  5. #255
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    This is really reaching since the only game it specifically mentions is the Heat-Knicks game.
    If you're going to say the Spurs-Suns game, then you have to say EVERY game he worked.
    It will all come out in the trial.
    Until then, kindly refrain from preposterous alligations, please!

  6. #256
    Believe. Shred's Avatar
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    This is really reaching since the only game it specifically mentions is the Heat-Knicks game.
    If you're going to say the Spurs-Suns game, then you have to say EVERY game he worked.
    It will all come out in the trial.
    Until then, kindly refrain from preposterous alligations, please!
    I'm not a M.D., but a colonoscopy would probably help you locate your head.

  7. #257
    Believe. CubanMustGo's Avatar
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    Spoken like someone who knows all about having their head stuck firmly up their ass.

  8. #258
    Free Throw Coach Aggie Hoopsfan's Avatar
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    I'm not a M.D., but a colonoscopy would probably help you locate your head.
    Kind of ironic considering that's where all Suns fans appear to have theirs.

  9. #259
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    I'm not a M.D., but a colonoscopy would probably help you locate your head.
    How old are you, 15 or 16?????????
    Just the sort of immature childish remark I would expect from someone of your limited intelligence!
    Can you say, "intelligence challenged"?
    Nope?
    Thought so!
    Why don't you try posting something worth reading for a change.
    Geeez, no wonder the Suns fans have such a bad rap around the league!

  10. #260
    Believe. medstudent's Avatar
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    How old are you, 15 or 16?????????
    Just the sort of immature childish remark I would expect from someone of your limited intelligence!
    Can you say, "intelligence challenged"?
    Nope?
    Thought so!
    Why don't you try posting something worth reading for a change.
    Geeez, no wonder the Suns fans have such a bad rap around the league!
    I'm an MD, and in my professional opinion, we should have a colonoscopy scheduled stat.

  11. #261
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    Wasn't this the same Ref who ejected the Spurs Coyote??????????????

  12. #262
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    McCallum weighs in, some interesting stuff about Donaghy's personality in this one:

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...0/ref.scandal/

  13. #263
    99/03/05/07/14 Spurs Brazil's Avatar
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    McCallum weighs in, some interesting stuff about Donaghy's personality in this one:

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...0/ref.scandal/
    One NBA coach called him "absolutely the worst referee in the league"

    Pop?

  14. #264
    Big in Japan GSH's Avatar
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    Stern's statement said the FBI is investigating allegations a "single" referee bet on basketball. But the law enforcement official said other arrests are expected.

    I remember all the I took from people who said that "no NBA ref would intentionally fix a game"... or that they "couldn't affect the outcome of a game" with a few bad calls here or there... or that "the bad calls go equally both ways, so quit talking about the refs." And the people with those opinions get almost violent about it. Why? Because they need to believe it so badly. If the outcome of NBA games is not being determined by the players, it turns into the same thing as the WWF - entertainment, but not a sport.

    When Stern suspended Joey Crawford, it got so much attention that most people completely missed the fact that there were at least two different Boston Celtics players talking about how they had tanked games last season in an attempt to get the top lottery pick in the draft. Stern managed to get them silenced about that subject, and it basically went under the radar - which he desperately needed to happen. Considering the "character" of a lot of the cretins playing in the NBA, he didn't want anyone even considering the possibility of them fixing the outcome of a game. Because if they would tank a game to help get a better lottery pick (when they might not even be on the team next year) why wouldn't they fix a game for a chunk of cash?

    Joey Crawford's little stunt of kicking Duncan out for laughing on the bench was enough to send the message that an NBA ref could, and would, take over the outcome of a game. It didn't mean that Crawford did it for money, but it didn't have to. Just the appearance that the game might not be determined by the players is a death sentence to a sport. The fans will forgive legitimate bad calls. But if they ever start believing, "We lost that game because the ref wanted us to," it's all over. Whether it is due to a personal vendetta, or a payoff, is immaterial. Because if one exists, the other can exist. And if it can, it probably does.

    I have seen calls in NBA games over the past several years that were beyond inexplicable. (And no, not just against the Spurs.) Calls that were so egregious that I said, "There is no way that a referee at that level could possibly make that call." Not just "poor vision", but calls that go completely opposite the rules. And very often those calls come right in the middle of a "miracle" comeback, by a team that was getting blown out of the game all night. At times, it has borne entirely too much resemblence to the WWF, where one guy gets beaten senseless for most of the match, and then suddenly comes alive to win.

    Anyone who believes that a ref cannot directly change the outcome of an NBA game is an idiot. (And there were several of them on this forum.) A few well-placed fouls can totally chage the momentum of a game. Making it impossible for one team to play defense, while handing out offensive fouls on the other end? A ref can create a 10-12 point swing in a matter of a minute or two. I'm not going to debate whether it did happen in this game or that game. But I don't see how anyone could deny that it could happen.

    I don't think they would make this kind of arrest unless they were damned sure the guy helped fix games. And when they say "more arrests are likely", it makes me think that other refs have been involved, whether they can absolutely prove it or not.

  15. #265
    Veteran braeden0613's Avatar
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    Stern's statement said the FBI is investigating allegations a "single" referee bet on basketball. But the law enforcement official said other arrests are expected.

    I remember all the I took from people who said that "no NBA ref would intentionally fix a game"... or that they "couldn't affect the outcome of a game" with a few bad calls here or there... or that "the bad calls go equally both ways, so quit talking about the refs." And the people with those opinions get almost violent about it. Why? Because they need to believe it so badly. If the outcome of NBA games is not being determined by the players, it turns into the same thing as the WWF - entertainment, but not a sport.

    When Stern suspended Joey Crawford, it got so much attention that most people completely missed the fact that there were at least two different Boston Celtics players talking about how they had tanked games last season in an attempt to get the top lottery pick in the draft. Stern managed to get them silenced about that subject, and it basically went under the radar - which he desperately needed to happen. Considering the "character" of a lot of the cretins playing in the NBA, he didn't want anyone even considering the possibility of them fixing the outcome of a game. Because if they would tank a game to help get a better lottery pick (when they might not even be on the team next year) why wouldn't they fix a game for a chunk of cash?

    Joey Crawford's little stunt of kicking Duncan out for laughing on the bench was enough to send the message that an NBA ref could, and would, take over the outcome of a game. It didn't mean that Crawford did it for money, but it didn't have to. Just the appearance that the game might not be determined by the players is a death sentence to a sport. The fans will forgive legitimate bad calls. But if they ever start believing, "We lost that game because the ref wanted us to," it's all over. Whether it is due to a personal vendetta, or a payoff, is immaterial. Because if one exists, the other can exist. And if it can, it probably does.

    I have seen calls in NBA games over the past several years that were beyond inexplicable. (And no, not just against the Spurs.) Calls that were so egregious that I said, "There is no way that a referee at that level could possibly make that call." Not just "poor vision", but calls that go completely opposite the rules. And very often those calls come right in the middle of a "miracle" comeback, by a team that was getting blown out of the game all night. At times, it has borne entirely too much resemblence to the WWF, where one guy gets beaten senseless for most of the match, and then suddenly comes alive to win.

    Anyone who believes that a ref cannot directly change the outcome of an NBA game is an idiot. (And there were several of them on this forum.) A few well-placed fouls can totally chage the momentum of a game. Making it impossible for one team to play defense, while handing out offensive fouls on the other end? A ref can create a 10-12 point swing in a matter of a minute or two. I'm not going to debate whether it did happen in this game or that game. But I don't see how anyone could deny that it could happen.

    I don't think they would make this kind of arrest unless they were damned sure the guy helped fix games. And when they say "more arrests are likely", it makes me think that other refs have been involved, whether they can absolutely prove it or not.
    Great post.

  16. #266
    Believe. Clutch20's Avatar
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    As far as any fan can tell, there are few checks and balances in how NBA games are reffed. It's varies widely from game to game and within a game when the refs finally decide they want to control it. There are special rules for the last few seconds when you get much more physical.

    I think the NBA needs to move from reffing as an art form and get to work on getting the calls right and consistent from ref to ref, game to game, quarter to quarter, and between first quarter and crunch time. In baseball, strikes and balls are closely scrutinized by MLB. This year I've noted that they are calling checked swing strikes much more consistently. However, I won't be holding my breath waiting for this to happen.
    Yep.......having a training center of sorts that will teach basics to younger refs, then taking those lessons out to a full sized court to let them apply those classroom lessons as they are overseen by a veteran staff of refs practice-calling a real game at their facility, having the practice game taped, taking the recordings back to the classroom for the breakdown.

    Oh, and invite a few BB fans to sit and watch, and bait the refs with name calling and gametime crap, just like the real games.

    The money's there, it would be good PR for the NBA to show the next logical step to be taken in the evolution of the game. Players have gotten bigger and faster, also there's a whole lot more money being made these days than back in the day when 5 bucks got you in plus paid for dogs and suds. Officiating basically hasn't changed much since those nickel and dime days.

    Le'ts all move on and improve.

  17. #267
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    Stern's statement said the FBI is investigating allegations a "single" referee bet on basketball. But the law enforcement official said other arrests are expected.

    I remember all the I took from people who said that "no NBA ref would intentionally fix a game"... or that they "couldn't affect the outcome of a game" with a few bad calls here or there... or that "the bad calls go equally both ways, so quit talking about the refs." And the people with those opinions get almost violent about it. Why? Because they need to believe it so badly. If the outcome of NBA games is not being determined by the players, it turns into the same thing as the WWF - entertainment, but not a sport.

    When Stern suspended Joey Crawford, it got so much attention that most people completely missed the fact that there were at least two different Boston Celtics players talking about how they had tanked games last season in an attempt to get the top lottery pick in the draft. Stern managed to get them silenced about that subject, and it basically went under the radar - which he desperately needed to happen. Considering the "character" of a lot of the cretins playing in the NBA, he didn't want anyone even considering the possibility of them fixing the outcome of a game. Because if they would tank a game to help get a better lottery pick (when they might not even be on the team next year) why wouldn't they fix a game for a chunk of cash?

    Joey Crawford's little stunt of kicking Duncan out for laughing on the bench was enough to send the message that an NBA ref could, and would, take over the outcome of a game. It didn't mean that Crawford did it for money, but it didn't have to. Just the appearance that the game might not be determined by the players is a death sentence to a sport. The fans will forgive legitimate bad calls. But if they ever start believing, "We lost that game because the ref wanted us to," it's all over. Whether it is due to a personal vendetta, or a payoff, is immaterial. Because if one exists, the other can exist. And if it can, it probably does.

    I have seen calls in NBA games over the past several years that were beyond inexplicable. (And no, not just against the Spurs.) Calls that were so egregious that I said, "There is no way that a referee at that level could possibly make that call." Not just "poor vision", but calls that go completely opposite the rules. And very often those calls come right in the middle of a "miracle" comeback, by a team that was getting blown out of the game all night. At times, it has borne entirely too much resemblence to the WWF, where one guy gets beaten senseless for most of the match, and then suddenly comes alive to win.

    Anyone who believes that a ref cannot directly change the outcome of an NBA game is an idiot. (And there were several of them on this forum.) A few well-placed fouls can totally chage the momentum of a game. Making it impossible for one team to play defense, while handing out offensive fouls on the other end? A ref can create a 10-12 point swing in a matter of a minute or two. I'm not going to debate whether it did happen in this game or that game. But I don't see how anyone could deny that it could happen.

    I don't think they would make this kind of arrest unless they were damned sure the guy helped fix games. And when they say "more arrests are likely", it makes me think that other refs have been involved, whether they can absolutely prove it or not.
    ^That is a great post and I completely concur.

    It is the "wanting to believe" so bad that makes people so violently against any talk of referees unduly rigging or fixing outcomes of games.

    I have been saying it for years also and have taken my share of flak as well. It isn't a team thing, it is a fair play thing and it has been obvious for a long time that something is seriously wrong with many NBA officials, not just Donaghy.

  18. #268
    delivering the goods
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    No but by responding you show just how insecure you are about the whole asterick thing, which wasn't even meant to be serious. Good job
    your little ponies are the redheaded step children of the Texas teams, its fun beating ya'll down. Last time I checked there is still a rivalry with the teams or you wouldn't be posting comments like you did garnering the responses you got. Its simple elementary. anyway


    ESPN just showed a clip of Nash talking about if he won the series for the Spurs.

    Nash is still cryin.... sad
    is this recent?? on edit: if it is recent, that is just pathetic.
    Last edited by judaspriestess; 07-21-2007 at 01:11 PM.

  19. #269
    Get Refuel! FromWayDowntown's Avatar
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    Stern's statement said the FBI is investigating allegations a "single" referee bet on basketball. But the law enforcement official said other arrests are expected.
    I have assumed this to mean that the FBI is investigating those with mafia ties who were betting along with Donaghy. I would think that if it meant that the FBI expected to arrest other NBA officials, the stories would have been about investigations of NBA officials. To this point, there's been no suggestion that this goes beyond Donaghy on the NBA side.

    I remember all the I took from people who said that "no NBA ref would intentionally fix a game"... or that they "couldn't affect the outcome of a game" with a few bad calls here or there... or that "the bad calls go equally both ways, so quit talking about the refs." And the people with those opinions get almost violent about it. Why? Because they need to believe it so badly. If the outcome of NBA games is not being determined by the players, it turns into the same thing as the WWF - entertainment, but not a sport.
    I don't think that NBA officials decide outcomes. I just don't. In any event, to the extent that I might fall within the ambit of those you are implicating in this paragraph -- and I have been outspoken here about my belief that NBA officials don't determine outcomes -- I remain steadfast in that belief. Mostly, my argument has been (and remains) that teams have so many other things within their power that to blame the outcome of a game on the officiating is ALWAYS a weak take. I don't think this situation changes that.

    * * * *

    Joey Crawford's little stunt of kicking Duncan out for laughing on the bench was enough to send the message that an NBA ref could, and would, take over the outcome of a game. It didn't mean that Crawford did it for money, but it didn't have to. Just the appearance that the game might not be determined by the players is a death sentence to a sport. The fans will forgive legitimate bad calls. But if they ever start believing, "We lost that game because the ref wanted us to," it's all over. Whether it is due to a personal vendetta, or a payoff, is immaterial. Because if one exists, the other can exist. And if it can, it probably does.
    But Crawford's little stunt didn't decide that game. If you'll recall, the Spurs had a lead late into the 4th quarter, but didn't make a basket for an extended period of time and the Mavericks finally broke through and scored enough to take the lead. It's a monumental leap of logic to say that Crawford decided that game -- he hurt the Spurs, but he didn't leave the Spurs without a chance. When an official clearly leaves a team without a chance by his acts, then you might have an argument. But Joey Crawford's antics didn't do that.

    I have seen calls in NBA games over the past several years that were beyond inexplicable. (And no, not just against the Spurs.) Calls that were so egregious that I said, "There is no way that a referee at that level could possibly make that call." Not just "poor vision", but calls that go completely opposite the rules. And very often those calls come right in the middle of a "miracle" comeback, by a team that was getting blown out of the game all night. At times, it has borne entirely too much resemblence to the WWF, where one guy gets beaten senseless for most of the match, and then suddenly comes alive to win.
    That you perceive things that way doesn't make those of us who disagree with you idiots. I've got no idea about your knowledge of NBA rules. I've gone to and watched my fair share of NBA games and I'm certain that officials get calls right at an amazing rate. Fans boo sometimes (or think a team has been screwed) by calls that are perfectly legitimate according to the rulebook.

    Anyone who believes that a ref cannot directly change the outcome of an NBA game is an idiot. (And there were several of them on this forum.) A few well-placed fouls can totally chage the momentum of a game. Making it impossible for one team to play defense, while handing out offensive fouls on the other end? A ref can create a 10-12 point swing in a matter of a minute or two. I'm not going to debate whether it did happen in this game or that game. But I don't see how anyone could deny that it could happen.
    See above. I think good teams overcome officiating. I think that knowledgable fans don't blame officials for their team's losses.

    I don't think they would make this kind of arrest unless they were damned sure the guy helped fix games. And when they say "more arrests are likely", it makes me think that other refs have been involved, whether they can absolutely prove it or not.
    Again, I think "more arrests are likely" is talking about mobsters, not officials. You choose to see it otherwise, but as we can see from the remainder of your statements, you're predisposed to believe that just about every official in the league is corrupt.

    That's certainly your prerogative -- I just disagree.

  20. #270
    Get Refuel! FromWayDowntown's Avatar
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    ^That is a great post and I completely concur.
    Now THERE's a surprise. The author of the ridiculous "Circle of 7," a Laker fan, whose team would be in the pre-eminent position to benefit from superstar calls and big market favoritism, and who is absolutely convinced that 4 jumpball violations in the NBA Finals is proof positive of a conspiracy to screw the Lakers, somehow believes that all NBA officials are corrupt and that all games are fixed?


  21. #271
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    Now THERE's a surprise. The author of the ridiculous "Circle of 7," a Laker fan, whose team would be in the pre-eminent position to benefit from superstar calls and big market favoritism, and who is absolutely convinced that 4 jumpball violations in the NBA Finals is proof positive of a conspiracy to screw the Lakers, somehow believes that all NBA officials are corrupt and that all games are fixed?

    No offense, but you subscribe quotes to me out of context.

    I have never said all officials are corrupt and all games are fixed.

    But to think that at least some of the outcomes of NBA games in the last several years haven't been manipulated through the use of corrupt officials is naive in my opinion.

    This guy just got caught because he has a gambling problem. Imagine the ones who just get paid off and don't have a gambling problem.

    The bias is just too obvious in certain games to be written off as "missed calls" or even "incompetence" as they end up slanting only against one side in the fight.

    No offense, but you really are not intelligent enough or form enough well thought out opinions to converse productively with me on this topic.

  22. #272
    Get Refuel! FromWayDowntown's Avatar
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    This guy just got caught because he has a gambling problem. Imagine the ones who just get paid off and don't have a gambling problem.
    Do you have any proof of that?

    Of course not.

    The bias is just too obvious in certain games to be written off as "missed calls" or even "incompetence" as they end up slanting only against one side in the fight.
    Says you. Of course, you admit that you're inclined to see things that way, so it's hardly surprising that you see bias when you watch games. Sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy, don't you think?

    I wonder, if you're so convinced that things aren't on the up-and-up, why you even bother to watch the NBA. I'm sure you have some glib answer for that, too.

    No offense, but you really are not intelligent enough or form enough well thought out opinions to converse productively with me on this topic.
    Why? Because I don't drink the same conspiratorial Kool-Aid that you do? Because I'm unwilling to make up facts to support my arguments the way that you do (i.e., the Spurs having the greatest free throw shooting differential of any NBA champion ever in 2003 -- debunked and shown to be not even remotely close to being true)?

    I understand that you believe there's some vast conspiracy. For so long with you, it was Stern's minions who were doing his bidding. It's curious to me that with the Donaghy news, your tenor has immediately changed and there's now an intimation that the puppetmaster isn't the league but some outside influence who's willing to pay officials off. It's convenient for your argument, I'm sure. Personally, I'd be bothered by the inconsistency, but then again, I'm not trying to blame my team's failures on officiating.

  23. #273
    Always waiting for the next game
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  24. #274
    Big in Japan GSH's Avatar
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    I don't think that NBA officials decide outcomes. I just don't.
    Nothing harder to argue with than a close mind.

    Most of your comments are non-sequitir, at best. Like {he hurt the Spurs, but he didn't leave the Spurs without a chance.} He directly affected the outcome of the game, and did so knowingly. It doesn't mean the Spurs absolutely would have won, any more that it means they could not have won with Duncan in the locker room. But to say that he didn't affect the outcome of the game? Sorry...ignorant. And for the record, I think David Stern would disagree with you as well.

    Give me a whistle, and I could manufacture a 10 point swing in nearly any NBA game, in less than two minutes. And turn a 15 point blowout into a 5 point nail-biter. And I mean nearly any NBA game, because the talent level in the league is just too high, even on the bad teams.

    No, I don't believe that "just about every official in the league is corrupt". Just the opposite, in fact. (But don't be surprised if one or more of the other 3 refs from Cardinal O'Hara high school is named before this thing is done.) Calling a basketball game is a difficult prospect, at any level. But the NBA moves so fast, and there is so much contact, that nearly any missed call can be excused. And that presents a perfect opportunity for a few rotten apples to shape a game here and a game there. And remember, all they really have to do is beat the spread.

    [QUOTE=FromWayDowntown]I've gone to and watched my fair share of NBA games and I'm certain that officials get calls right at an amazing rate.QUOTE]

    No ? Ya think so? If they didn't get most of the calls right, nobody would watch it. You somehow have the idea that it would take an incredible effort to massage the outcome of a game.

    I never said "vast conspiracy". I never even hinted at vast conspiracy. Because I don't believe in a vast conspiracy. But I've been convinced for some time that points are being shaved on occasion. And I'll go one better. I'm convinced that a few of the players are, on occasion, shaving points.

    It doesn't have to happen all the time to make it a disaster for the league. If people find out it happens ever, then every single game, every single call will start drawing cries of wrongdoing and conspiracy.

  25. #275
    Get Refuel! FromWayDowntown's Avatar
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    Nothing harder to argue with than a close mind.
    Et tu, brute? If my mind is closed to the possibility of corruption, isn't yours equally closed to the possibility that things are on the up-and-up?


    Most of your comments are non-sequitir, at best. Like {he hurt the Spurs, but he didn't leave the Spurs without a chance.} He directly affected the outcome of the game, and did so knowingly.
    No -- he didn't. If he directly affected the outcome of a game, then he would have ensured a particular result. That demonstrably isn't true of that game in Dallas. He didn't leave the Spurs without a chance; his decision undoubtedly made the Spurs' task more difficult, but that's very different than saying that he affected the outcome. If the Spurs had won that game -- and they should have even without Duncan -- you couldn't say that Crawford had affected the outcome.

    It doesn't mean the Spurs absolutely would have won, any more that it means they could not have won with Duncan in the locker room. But to say that he didn't affect the outcome of the game? Sorry...ignorant. And for the record, I think David Stern would disagree with you as well.
    David Stern and you can believe whatever you wish. I think that only very weak fans ever blame results on officials. You obviously disagree with me about that. Fair enough.

    Give me a whistle, and I could manufacture a 10 point swing in nearly any NBA game, in less than two minutes. And turn a 15 point blowout into a 5 point nail-biter. And I mean nearly any NBA game, because the talent level in the league is just too high, even on the bad teams.
    And you somehow assume that this is occuring with some regularity in the NBA? I don't see any evidence of that.

    No, I don't believe that "just about every official in the league is corrupt". Just the opposite, in fact. (But don't be surprised if one or more of the other 3 refs from Cardinal O'Hara high school is named before this thing is done.)
    Why should this be somehow an issue of where the officials went to high school. I've seen absolutely no proof whatsoever that Mike Callahan is manipulating games in any fashion -- in fact, I'm convinced that Callahan is probably the official in the league who is most often correct with his calls, that he's an official who is highly respected by coaches because he's so often correct, and because of all of that I am certain that Callahan is completely clean.

    Joey Crawford is far too much of a maverick (not Maverick) to ever take instructions from someone outside of the game.

    Ed Malloy is a young official who misses lots of calls, but that's not unusual for an official with just a few years of experience at this level, since, as you acknowledge, "Calling a basketball game is a difficult prospect, at any level. But the NBA moves so fast, and there is so much contact, that nearly any missed call can be excused."

    And that presents a perfect opportunity for a few rotten apples to shape a game here and a game there. And remember, all they really have to do is beat the spread.
    Sure, and we have one. I don't see any reason to believe that this goes beyond Donaghy. Really, what makes you think that "other arrests" means other NBA officials? It's purely conjecture on your part. Nothing else.

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