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Well I was replying to the poster who asked if as Mavericks fans we felt "cheated" out of a le. Until there's evidence that this is bigger than Donaghy and the 06 Finals were rigged, my answer is no.
I'm gonna have to disagree. While we still had our chances to win, I think most people with eyes who watched the finals saw something really fishy, especially at the end of game 3 and game 5. And i'm not talking about bad calls that went both ways, there will always be plenty of that. I'm talking about blatant phantom calls on Wade and him winning game 5 from the line.
Well I was replying to the poster who asked if as Mavericks fans we felt "cheated" out of a le. Until there's evidence that this is bigger than Donaghy and the 06 Finals were rigged, my answer is no.
What screwed us in G3 was running a box and one and letting the shot clock tick down to 2 on every possession instead of just running our offense and continuing to create shot opportunities. It was akin to a football team running it up the gut 3 straight times and punting in order to run some time off the clock. The Haslem steal off Jet didn't help. Shaq inexplicably making both of his FTs after a foul was huge. I know what we were all thinking, Shaq at the line means we basically got a stop. And then he hit them.I'm gonna have to disagree. While we still had our chances to win, I think most people with eyes who watched the finals saw something really fishy, especially at the end of game 3
Salvatore butchered that call, and the 25 FTAs were awful. Game Five was extremely one-sided, but we're not the first team to have that happen to us in the playoffs. Throw it out and we're still down 3-2. We still had HCA and the opportunity to take care of business on our home floor.and game 5. And i'm not talking about bad calls that went both ways, there will always be plenty of that. I'm talking about blatant phantom calls on Wade and him winning game 5 from the line
I know, bro. I was agreeing with you in stating that based on Donaghy's actions alone, it looks like the Heat were not the recipient of fixed officiating. Favorable officiating is a whole 'nuther story, but not enough to for the other poster to feel "vindicated" in their conspiracy theories.
How many times do you see Finals games won off of a non shooting foul when a team is in the penalty? The answer is never, unheard of. In that situation you let the players play. At the end of game 5, Wade ran right by Dirk, shoving him with a forearm as he went by. And Dirk was called for a foul. It was so blatantly obvious at that point that they had just thrown the game. Then of course Wade goes to the line and wins the game.
Was wondering how long it would take Mav Fan to join Sun Fan in drinking the Konspiracy Kool-Aid. Guess we can get the party started now...
You agree that standing still while getting a forearm in the chest merits a foul, especially in the closing moments of a Finals game?
My "theory" is that the refs were whistle-happy and the Heat were better able to take advantage of it. Some crews, Dan Crawford comes to mind, tend to just let 'em play.
Just 1. The 2006 Finals were rigged or fixed or skewed or whatever you want to call them. Games 3-6 were very obviously poorly offiiciated. I think DumbWade shot about 85 free throws in those 4 games and a bunch of those calls were phantom.
Stop and think about it for a minute, the Mavs were the prohibitive favorite in that series. The Mavs had beaten the Heat by a combined total of 49 points in the 2 regular season meetings and Vegas was giving some good odds on anyone willing to take the Heat. So if you wanted a big pay off you could get good odds as much as 8 to 1 if you bet on the Heat.
I'm not blaming it on Donaghy because i don't think he ref'd any of the games but come on people are you niave or too stupid to believe that he is the only official who bets on games!?
So i will take my one le please. And for you Spurs fans maybe you want to take a closer look at those Laker games of the early 2000's?
As someone who thinks the NBA is rigged (but only when your team doesn't win), I'm not surprised you'd say something so ignorant.
Since the Spurs are routinely at the bottom of the playoff list in free throws attempted, and since Tim Duncan gets fouled more than anyone else in the league, I'm not sure how my being a Spurs fan enters into the discussion.
I recall an NFL official once getting the coin toss wrong. If you need more proof than that, ask a Raiders fan about the tuck rule, ask Tony Dungy about the possession rule, or ask any Seahawks fan about the Super Bowl. I agree that instant replay is a good thing, but it became necessary because the officiating was so terribly bad, and it still doesn't cover the mistakes the officials manage to make.
I agree. There are a large number of competent officials in the NCAA, and officiating is for the most part very good. However, since the NBA takes the best officials from their ranks, I doubt that an entire conference is better overall. I saw enough missed calls and bad judgments during the NCAA tournament to know that it's an order of magnitude below the NBA.
Google "Brett Hull no goal" and see what comes up.Hockey fans don't seem to whine as much as basketball fans do. Notice that hockey players don't complain as much either.
Even if you count the rather simple process of balls and strikes, there are more potential calls of varied types in a single basketball game then in three or four baseball games. Compared to the pace and structure of baseball, basketball is much faster and almost anything can happen. As you mentioned about hockey, I don't follow baseball closely enough to go too in-depth, but the only game I attended this year was decided by a terribly bad call at first base that nobody in their right mind should have missed. It didn't even make the highlights.
On the above, you and I are in complete agreement. I can't even think of a suitable analogy for how bad they are. Yours are pretty good, though.
Your logic:
1. Your team had a meltdown of epic proportions in the Finals
2. Officiating in the series favored the other team instead of your team
3. An official that did not work the Finals that your team lost has been indicted on conspiring to fix games
Therefore:
4. Your team was the victim of a fix and should be the rightfull champions
Using that logic, you should be able to claim the championship this year as rightfully yours as well, right? Do you believe that the GS series was fixed as well? You had the best record in the league. You were the odds on Vegas favorite to win the le. Surely you feel as strongly about that series being fixed as you do the Finals?
By that rationale, the Mavs shouldn't have beaten the Spurs to even get to the WCF. I therefore want my le from last year because my team would have actually beaten the Heat.
I thought he was cooperating with the feds and they are now saying he's willing to give the names of other refs involved? Maybe I fell asleep watching sportscenter and dreamed it but I coulda swore I heard it somewhere....anyway regardless I seriously doubt he was the only one involved. You'd have to be naive to totally ignore the possibility.
Obstructed View:
Actually, I think we are more or less in agreement across the board. My main problem with the NBA is not blown calls, but a large disconnect between the rules on the page and the rules on the floor. In other words, the NBA takes a major hit for all of the non-calls on travelling, palming, moving screens, lane violations, and offensive goaltending. Some of these are stupid rules that need to be eliminated (i.e. offensive goaltending), but the proper procedure would be to change the rule, not to just ignore it.
I agree that the perceived superiority of baseball officiating is mostly a side-effect of the sport's design. In baseball, the action is very isolated. Fielding is really the only component that requires cooperation or synergy. Otherwise, the game is a duel between the hitter and the battery. (It is misleading to forget the catcher's role in this; it's not really hitter vs. pitcher.) In other words, baseball really SHOULD have nearly perfect officiating, as this is a reasonable goal in that sport.
At any rate, NBA basketball is really the only league that has such a major disconnect between the "official" rules and the "enforced" rules. In baseball, blocking home plate is illegal if you are not in possession of the ball or receiving a throw. You don't see that called very much, if at all. I really can't think of another baseball example at the moment, but I could probably come up with another one or two. I'm not aware of any rules that are consistently ignored in the NFL or NHL, excepting the previously unenforced (and virtually unknown) tuck rule.
Terry Pluto refers to this as the "pro call" in his books, and it has been a problem in the NBA at least since the ABA merger, if not much longer.
Nope, not at all. In fact i said 2 weeks before the end of the season that we do NOT want to play GSW. they had beaten us 5 out of the last 6 times we played where as we had Crushed the Heat regularly. So i am not crying foul for this year. GSW beat us fair and square. We got out played and out coached.
But 2006 should be ours man. And i don't want to hear anything about the call against G.nosebleed on Dirk on that shot with 23 seconds left in the WCF's either. That was a foul and i have a giant poster of that shot at home and G.Nob's hand is clearly all over Dirks arm! That was just a brain dead stupid play by GiantNose. Otherwise you guys might be celebrating 3 in a Row!
Travelling is a non-issue. Palming is typically only called when it's used to gain an advantage, and I'm okay with that, unless you want to tell Allen Iverson and Dwayne Wade to learn how to dribble all over again. Everything else you mentioned is called when it's seen as far as I can tell. Complaints about those are by people that don't really know anything about basketball, and those complaints will continue until people find a better ill-informed opinion to blindly repeat.
In addition, fouls are called according to the rulebook more often than most fans realize. They are typically looking in the wrong place on a replay when judging whether a foul occurred. A little familiarity with the ACTUAL rulebook would go a long way, but that's an unrealistic goal. We're on an NBA fan board with people that don't know the rules.
That leads to the biggest problem with the NBA IMO: They spend WAY too much time listening to the complaints of the peanut gallery. The compe ion committee keeps trying to change the rules to improve scoring and they don't allow the officials to catch up before changing the rules again. They set up points of emphasis based upon the most vocal complaints. They finally decided to clamp down on the complaining by the players, which was a big step. They'll have to stick to their guns for a couple of years until the fans follow suit.
I agree, but the Heat still had to win a game in Dallas after that. It sucks, it was wrong, but we were eliminated on our own floor. And that can't be pinned on the refs, we collectively sucked in that game.
Dirk missing a free throw to tie the game with three seconds left didn't help.
I've heard reports that he's going to name names. Any indication whether that's mob figures, people threatening him, fellow refs or NBA players has not been given. You have to be careful with ESPN. One of their anchors kept referring to it as "game fixing" earlier today and someone kept saying "point shaving" yesterday, both of which are completely unsubstantiated. All anyone knows for sure as far as I've heard is that he was under investigation for having bet on NBA games. Any number of crazy things may come of this, but none of it has as of this point.
Yeah, that too.
Still, it's way too foolish to write this team off forever after the last two playoff series. Considering San Antonio is going to stay strong for the next 3 years and Houston just got better, they may not get back, considering how tough the West is.
I agree completely. They just picked two years in a row to peak at the wrong time. They were actually helped by the injuries in 2006 because they didn't get the team together until late in the season.
If the Mavs do win it, it's going to be a year where they're clearly not the favorites and where they don't set the world on fire in the regular season. They've shown being Finals favorites and by going into the playoffs as the #1 Goliath, they don't respond to pressure all that well, which is somewhat understandable, being that this is still a very young team. So I don't think things like "heart" or "courage" enter into so much as it does poise and maturity. Those things can't be fixed through a trade.
The Cardinals and the Colts both won les after years of amazing regular seasons and disappointing playoff finishes. When they both turned in ho-hum regular season performances, that's when they finally got it done. It just seems that a team like San Antonio really knows how to pace itself for an 82-game season and then four playoff rounds.
In odd-numbered years, anyway.
I agree with this. If the Mavs ever do win, it won't be with what people will consider their "best" team. And I still think they'll need to find some kind of traditional low-post presence.
I can promise you that you are the only one who thinks that Ginobili fouled Dirk in the WCF's.
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