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LMAO! Mono, you changed screen names to continue to argue. Come on now.
what about this little bit of comedic genius.
It will be ok ...
LMAO! Mono, you changed screen names to continue to argue. Come on now.
Tell Melo I need court side tickets for the Pistons game when they come into Detroit. Oh, and tell him he's still a punk. I just had his back on this particular issue. Thanks, Woody.
I don't mess with guns. But, if he can get me a complimentary Nate Robinson Knicks jersey, it would be great.
Except they don't have to prove you wrong, considering the referee in question agrees with their assessment of the situation. And considering how you bandy on so about the "slow-mo replay", it's rather interesting that we are looking at a play that happened on a horrible video with poor quality and distant perspective.
Yet instead of attacking the official (who had a much more advantageous view of the play, and has a much better idea of what cons utes an ejection than we do) for making an improper call, you're going after the people who are just stating that they agree with the official decision to eject a player. Your stance is basically, "well, they didn't suspend him so obviously it wasn't too bad".
Uh. Hold on their buddy. Melo got tossed. Not after a discussion. Not after a checking of the rules. The official saw the play and immediately threw him out with a flagrant two. Now, I've seen some pretty crazy flops in my life. I don't recall the last time a flop got the other player immediately thrown out of the game. There is absolutely NO visual evidence to suggest that Melo should have stayed in the game. Throat grab. Ejection. Simple. Even you admit his hands closed around his throat. I've never really tried to grab a guys chest, so I'm pretty sure Melo knew what was going on.
As far as his reaction goes, well damn, maybe was surprised that the fingers of another player were curled around his throat in a game that was no longer in doubt? I got shoved really hard for blocking a player's shot one time in a pickup game. It surprised me so much because it was a clean block that I didn't even think to shove the guy back. I was just like, "... did that just happen?" By the time I realized the exact reason and cir stance, the moment of anger had long past. Vuj just looks like a guy who's a bit blitzed by what happens and is trying to walk it off. Why would he be criticized for that? Players walk off injuries all the time and are fine afterwards. If I had a guys hand on my throat, I'd want to make DAMN sure that I was fine before I got back into the game.
Add to the fact that the cir stances involved (the Nuggets getting destroyed), the fact that this is a recurrent behavior from Melo, and just the peculiarity of the event itself leads me to believe that Melo is not a saint in this case. You said that we've never played contact basketball. I guess you're right. I've been in thousands of pick-up games and several organized events in high school and college. Never, ever, not ONCE, have I ever grabbed a person's neck. I have never had my neck grabbed. I have never WITNESSED someone's neck being grabbed, except once. And that was in the middle of a rec-league brawl (quite hilarious, truth be told).
The fact that you accuse others of obsessing, huff and haw about how it's just the internet so nothing matters and you don't give a , insult others, and then proceed to post -the longest rant in the thread- is almost humorous. I mean, really. When you latch on so quickly to your opinion that Polesmoking "backtracked" and use that as a jumping point for the rest of your argument, it is not conducive to your initial stance. You jumped a shaky ship for greener pastures, as you knew your first position about Vuj flopping was hard to defend.
For the record, I came into this not really disliking Melo. I see him as a kid who's got a of a lot of growing up to do. But this is not cool. The repe ive behaviors and the at ude need to go sooner, not later.
I mean, really. Is Vuj THAT hard to guard?
I guess the strangest part of this whole thread is that historically I've found you to be a reasonable, rational poster. You're too intelligent to need to resort to base, vile insults. And so what if it's the internet? You're spending time here, you post a lot, you obviously enjoy Spurstalk. Don't try to play the Mr. Tough Guy card and say you don't give two s. Because if you honestly don't, you've wasted a of a lot of your life here. There, now I've alleviated you of the longest post in the thread. Call me names for actually constructing a decent thought on the subject.
Last edited by Cry Havoc; 12-04-2007 at 12:11 PM.
I don't have a problem with slinging a few insults here and there just to emphasize a point. I've done it plenty of times, with whottt, Brutalis, Shoogabear, and obviously monosylab1k. I don't take a few insult shots that serious. It's all fun and games on a messageboard. Nearly everyone on this site has slung insults. It's not a big deal. My saying it's just the internet is a direct response to PoleSmoking saying people are pointing and laughing at me. My point ... who cares, it's the internet. Ultimately, who cares what other people think about you over the internet. It doesn't mean I don't like SpursTalk. Obviously, I post quite a bit here and I enjoy it. As for trying to throw out some "tough guy" card, I don't know how you get that. Most of my insults were directed at monosylab1k which basically was a back-and-forth thing. He insults me, I insult him. Not a big deal to me. I don't know about him. But, it really isn't that serious. As for PoleSmoking, he got serious. He went to the "seriously go kill yourself" comment. He melted down. So, to me, it's funny.I guess the strangest part of this whole thread is that historically I've found you to be a reasonable, rational poster. You're too intelligent to need to resort to base, vile insults. And so what if it's the internet? You're spending time here, you post a lot, you obviously enjoy Spurstalk. Don't try to play the Mr. Tough Guy card and say you don't give two s. Because if you honestly don't, you've wasted a of a lot of your life here. There, now I've alleviated you of the longest post in the thread. Call me names for actually constructing a decent thought on the subject.
I accuse monosylab1k of obsessing because he does. I don't go attacking monosylab1k without instigation. I insult monosylab1k when I respond to his stupid . He says stupid , and I respond to his stupid . Calling him obsessive is just another insult. He calls me obsessive, um ok. Another insult. Again, it's not that deep to me.
As for your first few paragraphs that actually talk about the Melo foul, I didn't read it all yet. If there's anything substantive about it, I'll respond. Otherwise, we'll just be re-hashing what's been said over and over for several pages already.
Except they've been saying all along that they did prove me wrong. My initial point in this thread was that I disagreed with official that it was a technical or an ejection. Again, officials make wrong calls sometimes. I called it a flop. There is no proof that there wasn't a flop. You can't prove Sasha didn't flop with certainty. I can't prove with certainty that he did flop. Therefore, it's a matter of opinion and I disagreed with what the official concluded. No one proved anyone wrong with certainty. It was an opinion. That Sasha flopped is an opinion.
No, I do disagree with the official. That's what I was saying. I didn't go after people. I responded to people who disagreed with me. And, no, you are not summarizing my stance accurately. First, I thought Sasha flopped and Carmelo did not choke or choke slam Vujacic. Second, I thought it was wrong to give him a technical (or flagrant as it probably was) and an ejection. Both monosylab1k and PoleSmoking mentioned that Carmelo deserved any suspension he got. I am just using the fact he didn't get suspended as demonstrating he didn't choke slam Sasha.Yet instead of attacking the official (who had a much more advantageous view of the play, and has a much better idea of what cons utes an ejection than we do) for making an improper call, you're going after the people who are just stating that they agree with the official decision to eject a player. Your stance is basically, "well, they didn't suspend him so obviously it wasn't too bad".
As you pointed out that video is pretty bad, I don't see how you can say Melo "grabbed" his throat. Hands around the throat area? Sure. Grabbed it? You can't tell that. And, again, hands on the throat is NOT an automatic ejection.Uh. Hold on their buddy. Melo got tossed. Not after a discussion. Not after a checking of the rules. The official saw the play and immediately threw him out with a flagrant two. Now, I've seen some pretty crazy flops in my life. I don't recall the last time a flop got the other player immediately thrown out of the game. There is absolutely NO visual evidence to suggest that Melo should have stayed in the game. Throat grab. Ejection. Simple. Even you admit his hands closed around his throat. I've never really tried to grab a guys chest, so I'm pretty sure Melo knew what was going on.
First, shove in the back and someone grabbing your throat completely two different things. As for the rest of your opinion, well that's what it is ... an opinion. It differs from mine. Again, no substantive proof either way.As far as his reaction goes, well damn, maybe was surprised that the fingers of another player were curled around his throat in a game that was no longer in doubt? I got shoved really hard for blocking a player's shot one time in a pickup game. It surprised me so much because it was a clean block that I didn't even think to shove the guy back. I was just like, "... did that just happen?" By the time I realized the exact reason and cir stance, the moment of anger had long past. Vuj just looks like a guy who's a bit blitzed by what happens and is trying to walk it off. Why would he be criticized for that? Players walk off injuries all the time and are fine afterwards. If I had a guys hand on my throat, I'd want to make DAMN sure that I was fine before I got back into the game.
Exactly. You've never seen anyone grab someone else's throat in pick up or rec league ever during play, only in a brawl. So, even though Melo got a huge suspension last year for throwing a punch, and on national television in a blowout, he's going to choke a player during a play? Come on. He wanted to impede Vujacic's movement. He didn't want to choke Sasha. And, if he was going to choke Sasha, he REALLY WOULD HAVE CHOKED Sasha. If you're going to choke someone, make it count. Kind of like making a flagrant count.Add to the fact that the cir stances involved (the Nuggets getting destroyed), the fact that this is a recurrent behavior from Melo, and just the peculiarity of the event itself leads me to believe that Melo is not a saint in this case. You said that we've never played contact basketball. I guess you're right. I've been in thousands of pick-up games and several organized events in high school and college. Never, ever, not ONCE, have I ever grabbed a person's neck. I have never had my neck grabbed. I have never WITNESSED someone's neck being grabbed, except once. And that was in the middle of a rec-league brawl (quite hilarious, truth be told).
I already mentioned why I talked about that this is only the internet. I don't care about people laughing at me behind a computer screen. It doesn't mean I won't argue my point.The fact that you accuse others of obsessing, huff and haw about how it's just the internet so nothing matters and you don't give a , insult others, and then proceed to post -the longest rant in the thread- is almost humorous. I mean, really. When you latch on so quickly to your opinion that Polesmoking "backtracked" and use that as a jumping point for the rest of your argument, it is not conducive to your initial stance. You jumped a shaky ship for greener pastures, as you knew your first position about Vuj flopping was hard to defend.
And, arguing with PoleSmoking about the rule is actually right on point with my initial stance. My initial points about the Melo foul:
1. Vujacic flopped and Melo did not choke slam him.
2. Melo did not deserve a technical foul (flagrant foul) or ejection.
My argument against PoleSmoking speaks directly to the second point as he made it abundantly clear that there was no room for debate about the ejection because it was an above the shoulders foul. My whole point was that the official made a poor call in judgment. He said in like 7-8 posts over and over again that there was no discretion or room for interpretation because it was an automatic ejection based on an "above the shoulders" foul. Turns out, the rule was for "elbows." Then he comes back with a different rule for flagrants when an official "deems a foul excessive." In that rule, there is discretion. And, having that discretion, I disagreed with the official's determination that the contact was excessive based on my belief that Sasha flopped. PoleSmoking changed his argument. Later he would talk about special exceptions and provisions where he never mentioned anything about those special exceptions or provisions until after I proved what he said all along to be inaccurate. He was so pompous about me reading the NBA rulebook and he got the rule wrong. And, yes, the argument was directly tied into my initial stance.
Thanks for your opinion.
P.S. I generally call people names or throw insults in response. I don't usually call people names unless they start with the name-calling or unless they prove to be unreasonably obnoxious or stupid. Again, name-calling or throwing insults isn't that serious to me. For others it might be.
Oh, and back to that "obsessive" thing, don't you think monosylab1k disguising himself by changing his screen name to face to attack me on the 10th page of this thread is a little obsessive? Isn't it?
Never said he wasn't.
But on the issue of the play, I guess I just trust an official with a clear, hi-def (ie, REAL LIFE) view of the play over what may or may not be discerned from a muddy youtube replay. It has really less to do with you and your ability to judge a play and more to do with the cir stance. I THINK it looks like Melo is choking Vuj, almost impetuously, as in, " , don't try to move around me, I'm MELO." It just seems like he's pissy at losing and wanted to lash out. He wasn't super angry, and that may be why he didn't REALLY go after a WWE type move that ends in a bench-clearing fight. But I -think- he was just fed up of trying and wanted to take it out on a lesser player (can you imagine the hoopla over this if it was Melo and Kobe or Melo and T-Mac?) so that it would largely escape the media's attention. Not that he would consciously be thinking of that, but he knows he can kind of push around smaller players without drawing the ire of Stern.
Again, this is just what I think. But I could be wrong. I defer to the person who had the clearest view.
who knows. I'm thinking the definition of obsessive, however, is this -
which probably rivals my Crocodile Nowitzki article in length. the difference being that nobody gives enough of a to read all of this.
Only one person has to read it. Cry Havoc. If no one else does, that's fine. It was responding to him.
then why not just PM it to him? if you really don't give a about everyone else seeing your obsessive mentioning of my name along with the same tired BS excuse for Carmelo.
LMAO! Because he made a post at me in this thread. I responded to that post in this thread. You are a like a little kid not getting your way, monsylab1k. If you don't care, stop reading, stop responding ... just stop.
Hilarity. PoleSmoking has an internet nervous breakdown and you change screen names to attack me "anonymously." And, you just can't help but keep responding. LOL! Good comedy.
It's pretty well do ented that face is a troll I use. I'd figure you'd have figured this out what with all the research you do about me.
And I'm not the one talking about how I don't give a and then immediately make some 1000 word post defending my entire internet existence.
Seeing how you care desperately about how much recognition you get on this site, you should be thanking me for having any interchange at all with you. Your posts in this thread were about as nondescript and anonymous as they get until I graced you with my presence and started talking . Now you've got all sorts of people going at you. So, your welcome. Unfortunately I've given myself a month long banning for the Patriots sucking so bad last night, and I'm going to get back to that. Good luck finding anybody that gives a what you say in the meantime.
Had no idea you were face but you made it completely transparent with your posts. Why change screen names to argue with me anyway? You're a ing loser.
My saying I don't care what other people think of me over the internet does not prevent or preclude me from arguing a point. Do you have any logic left? Are you about to go into a PoleSmoking meltdown? Do you need to use another screen name to make it seem more people are attacking me? Do you need that hug now?
All sorts of people going at me? You and PoleSmoking, oh and YOU again?
You're a self admitting troll who loves to argue with people to stroke an internet ego. Apparently you gave a about what I said because you won't stop ing responding.
At the very least, you are entertaining, in a look at that little kid in the shopping mall throwing a tantrum at his mother sort of way.
Have fun with the rest of your posting pretending you're internet cool and making fun of people.
Just curious, Jam and Mono, since you two have been measuring for about 10 pages in full now, who's internet is actually longer? Maybe that's why you're both so preoccupied with this Melo-choke incident. One is hoping it's true because choking excites him, the other doesn't want it to be true because he's scared it does.
Call it a nervous breakdown a few more times, and maybe it will make it true. After all, this IS the magical, make-believe world of the internet where anything that JamStone wants is instantly true. Back in reality, I call it "getting fed up with a stubborn idiot and heaping some well-deserved scorn on said idiot." No go ahead and fire of another 1000 line rambling response. I'll be waiting anxiously to NOT bother reading it or responding to you on this thread again.
How about I just quote you again:
I'm sure your rational side tried its damnedest not to let you respond once again since you were "so done with" me. Still lingering effects from your nervous breakdown, I suppose. I suggest a therapist. You can get past your meltdown. I'm almost sure of it.
Here's the Cliff's Notes version of this (now) 11 page thread, for those who didn't have the misfortune of participating themselves:
EVERYONE: "Melo is a punk, choked Vujacic, and got ejected."
JamStone: "In my opinion, Melo didn't mean it and didn't commit a flagrant."
EVERYONE: "Any reason or evidence?"
JamStone: "Evidence? Yes. My solitary opinion, because I know what's going on inside Melo's head."
EVERYONE: "You're wrong"
JamStone: "No, I'm right. And my proof is it's my opinion."
EVERYONE: "You're an idiot."
JamStone: "No, I'm right. I proved you all wrong with my opinion."
EVERYONE: "Ugh ... "
[repeat for another 10 pages]
Seek help with your internet rage.
Here you go dude, I'll make it true for you:
Here I am. I'm angry. I have serious internet rage! I'm raging! Raging with anger! Furiously raging! Anger! anger! rage! rage! rage!
HATE! Foaming at the mouth! Shaking with fury and internet rage! Meltdown! Nervous break-down! But mostly INTERNET RAGE!
Now go and throw your stuffed animals at the wall and pout some more.
Sooner or later, truth comes out. Now if only you would admit you were blatantly wrong about the "above the shoulders" foul as it applied to Melo and that you had to change your argument because you of that.
It's fun to feed the trolls when the trolls get so angry over an internet discussion that they have a nervous breakdown over the net.
I say feed the trolls when it's funny.
You're a total dumb-ass. See how Mono & Cry Havoc were right about how you desperately seize onto something irrelevant when you know your original position is impossible to defend anymore? Perfect illustration. All you're posting now is a bunch of irrelevant bull about how you think I had a nervous breakdown. I mean, how childish can you be? Since you like childhood analogies: you're like that little kid who tries to tease other kids until they get mad, and then tease them because they're mad. Genius. I mean, what would be your point anyway, so what if I did get mad at you? It's not like you didn't give me a reason. Do you think that somehow supports your argument that Melo shouldn't have been ejected? Do you think it proves anything other than that annoying pricks annoy people? Well, I'm not mad and never actually was; but I have lost all patience and respect for you.
Oh, and by the way. I think it's especially amusing that you referred to me as a troll. Do you know what the definition of a troll is? It's someone who posts contrary or argumentative comments to bait others into arguments. Since you are the only one with Melo's back, and since now your gloating because you think you got a rise out of me ... well, that makes YOU the troll.
Last edited by PoleSmoking; 12-05-2007 at 11:37 AM.
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