Heath Ledger dead

[David Bowie]

No, I don't think that the antianxiety meds are a cure for anxiety at all. However, what causes my anxiety is OCD, which is another psychiatric condition. Changing my diet, etc, is not going to cahnge my thought process. I had a lot of friends in college who were on antidepressants, and I could never understand why anybody would want to take a psychotropic medication, esp with all the sexual side effects and the tiredness that those pills cause. I also used to think that all psychological problems were cureble by changing youre lifestyle, relaxing etc. However, sometimes disorders become so bad that you are unable to function and make any needed changes. I don't think that medications are a caure (although they seem to be for some.) However, they allow you to feel better so that you can make those lyfestyle changes and progress onward with recovery.

[whottt]

Anyone care to provide me with the stats on the trends of depression?


Are more people getting it now than ever before? or less?

I mean PCT of the general population...




What about suicide rates...are they rising, or declining?


Gimme those answers and then we'll see how much good those meds are doing...




A big part of the reason we live longer now is because we have learned how to do surgery that can extend life expectancy... like that...I mean from legitimate physical impairment...


That doesn't mean giving someone a pill for every little ailment they get is a wise thing to do...


If it's proven to cure it, that's one thing...if it's just enabling someone to put off the real problem, while getting them addicted to a drug...that's another thing entirely.




And if you don't think money is a primary factor behind that trend...you are the asshole.

[ShoogarBear]

Eh....I quit drinking cokes and it had a tremendous impact on my mood...I like the result better than freaking Paxil.

Next up...cigs.


If scientology can help people overcome problems without drugs...isn't that a postive?


Since it's basically a form of hypnosis(albeit a dangerous form) I have no doubt it actually can help people overcome issues without drugs.

I don't think you can easily dump mild anxiety/mood disorders and major anxiety/depression/psychoses into the same basket.

Nicotine addiction is verifiable biochemical phenomenon. That doesn't mean you need to combat it biochemically, but some people can overcome the craving easier than others. Just because one specific method works for you doesn't mean it will work for others.

The problem with Scientology is they claim THEY have the true answer and other people are selling snake oil, which is usually the first sign of a snake oil salesman. I also seriously doubt Scientologists would care to take on the problem of "curing" schizophrenia (because most of them don't have money; actually I'm surprised Tom Cruise hasn't tried to convert Ron Artest).

Psychiatry doesn't claims to have all the answers, but at least over the last 20-30 years they are trying to use hard scientific evidence to do ent how effective medications are (or aren't).

[ShoogarBear]

Anyone care to provide me with the stats on the trends of depression?


Are more people getting it now than ever before? or less?

I mean PCT of the general population...




What about suicide rates...are they rising, or declining?


Gimme those answers and then we'll see how much good those meds are doing...




A big part of the reason we live longer now is because we have learned how to do surgery that can extend life expectancy... like that...I mean from legitimate physical impairment...


That doesn't mean giving someone a pill for every little ailment they get is a wise thing to do...


If it's proven to cure it, that's one thing...if it's just enabling someone to put off the real problem, while getting them addicted to a drug...that's another thing entirely.




And if you don't think money is a primary factor behind that trend...you are the asshole.

Logical fallacy: Incidence rates for diabetes are going up, too. Does that mean insulin doesn't work?

[peewee's lovechild]

i hope they get shot if they do that... no lie! everyone of them shot in the head

This is the second time I agree with Fillmoe.

I'm scared.

Anyway, it just goes to show you how ed up and full of hate religiosity is.

[whottt]

No, I don't think that the antianxiety meds are a cure for anxiety at all. However, what causes my anxiety is OCD, which is another psychiatric condition.

Yeah...I don't know if I have OCD but I get that way about cigarettes. I got a major cigarette addiction....obsessiive.

Changing my diet, etc, is not going to cahnge my thought process.

You don't think it can help at all...I guess if your diet is good then it probably won't.


I used to drink about 2-3 32oz Dr. Peppers per day...it seriously ed with my mood...I didn't realize it till I got off them. I don't even want to drink one anymore.

I had a lot of friends in college who were on antidepressants, and I could never understand why anybody would want to take a psychotropic medication, esp with all the sexual side effects and the tiredness that those pills cause. I also used to think that all psychological problems were cureble by changing youre lifestyle, relaxing etc.

I agree with what you said there...and I also agree that you can't cure all psychological problems by a lifestyle change...I mean some people have some seriously ed up brain chemistry, through no fault of their own, and they do need medicine to deal with it.


But I think a great deal many people are going on the same path as the people with serious conditions, and they don't need to be, and a lot of the time they aren't getting good advice on the best way of dealing with that problem...a lot of times, they are getting a pill.

However, sometimes disorders become so bad that you are unable to function and make any needed changes. I don't think that medications are a caure (although they seem to be for some.) However, they allow you to feel better so that you can make those lyfestyle changes and progress onward with recovery.

I agree with that...especially if the people have conditions exacerbated by the anxiety like high blood pressure...




My stance basically comes from getting prescribed Paxil when I tried to quit smoking and freaked out a couple of years ago...


That was insane...I can't believe they give that stuff to people, complete with the warning that you may feel cidal and kill your family or somthing in the first 48 hours you are on it...or something like that.



They also don't really tell you that you will get these enery jolts if you go off the stuff cold turkey...

I am pissed they put me on that stuff...I wasn't asking for it either.
They just gave me a pill...that I didn't really need.

[peewee's lovechild]

How did whott get two spurs?

[ShoogarBear]

How did whott get two spurs?

For running all those game chats enjoyed by Spur fans everywhere.

[ShoogarBear]

My stance basically comes from getting prescribed Paxil when I tried to quit smoking and freaked out a couple of years ago...

That is a problem. I also agree things went way overboard with the ADD diagnosis and prescription of Ritalin a few years back.

The problem is that the diseases are much more difficult to diagnose with precision than say, diabetes or hypertension. And unlike the response to something like an antibiotic, the response (and side-effects) to the medications are equally difficult to predict.

[peewee's lovechild]

For running all those game chats enjoyed by Spur fans everywhere.

That's it??

, I'm going to start doing that.

[whottt]

I don't think you can easily dump mild anxiety/mood disorders and major anxiety/depression/psychoses into the same basket.

I agreee....

Nicotine addiction is verifiable biochemical phenomenon. That doesn't mean you need to combat it biochemically, but some people can overcome the craving easier than others. Just because one specific method works for you doesn't mean it will work for others.

I agree with that too.

The problem with Scientology is they claim THEY have the true answer and other people are selling snake oil, which is usually the first sign of a snake oil salesman. I also seriously doubt Scientologists would care to take on the problem of "curing" schizophrenia (because most of them don't have money; actually I'm surprised Tom Cruise hasn't tried to convert Ron Artest).

I agree about Scientology being wrong to claim they have all the answers...

I also think that some of what they do is potentially dangerous...

But I also think that some of what they do actually can help cure people...because it is based in hypnosis.

Psychiatry doesn't claims to have all the answers, but at least over the last 20-30 years they are trying to use hard scientific evidence to do ent how effective medications are (or aren't).

I've got no problems with Psychiatry...I don't agree with the scientology view that it's evil.

At the same time...I do think people are too quick to hand out a pill these days. A potentially addictive and harmful pill.


Awseome stuff when you break out the Doctors knowledge Shoogar, and appreciated


I've been waiting for that


I will say this though...what happened to me over simple nicotine withdrawl was way more than minor...a great deal of it was my own doing and eating habits...but it was anything but minor. I literally went crazy just by trying to quit smoking cigs...from the anxiety caused by the nicotine withdrawl, how much sugar I was eating, and a lack of sleep.


Lack of sleep is some serious stuff....it can take you places you'd never think you'd go.


They gave me a pill for it...that I didn't really need...they probably knew the cokes were a big part of it(bigger than I would have agreed at that time) but they still gave me the pill anyway...

Why?

Because it was the easiest thing to do?

So I wouldn't sue them for failing to give me medicine(although I wasn't asking for it)?

That's what my problem is...they just gave me that damn pill...the worst drug I have ever taken in my life.

[whottt]

Logical fallacy: Incidence rates for diabetes are going up, too. Does that mean insulin doesn't work?

Ahah!


No...but it means our diet is part of the problem...that's my point.

Are we just getting more diabetes out of the blue? Or is it the foods we now eat?

Foods that hundreds of years ago required to much processing and expense to be commonly available...that now don't and are commonly available?


Basically...we are getting pills to enable us to do things we shouldn't be doing....and the pills aren't really taking away the reasons that we shouldn't be doing these things, just enabling us to do them more easily, and they are giving us side effects.


That's my point..

[whottt]

That is a problem. I also agree things went way overboard with the ADD diagnosis and prescription of Ritalin a few years back.

The problem is that the diseases are much more difficult to diagnose with precision than say, diabetes or hypertension. And unlike the response to something like an antibiotic, the response (and side-effects) to the medications are equally difficult to predict.

But isn't it true now that the first course of treatment is usually a pill...rather than the less dangerous treatments?

And if that is true, do you think that's wise?

[boutons_]

For all you literal Bible-thumpers, your buddy Rev Phelps/Westboro tells y'all how the Bible sees dearly departed Heath:

The Westboro Baptist Church's First Foray Into Celebrity Funeral Protest: Condemning Heath Ledger

Chez Pazienza

Posted January 23, 2008 | 06:33 PM (EST)


Never ones for subtlety, Fred Phelps and his merry band of lunatic minstrels at the Westboro Baptist Church are making sure their opinion of Heath Ledger -- or lack thereof -- won't be misconstrued by even the densest among us. It was pretty much a given that a guy who rose to critical acclaim playing a gay cowboy would draw the hyperbolic wrath of America's most vocal phobes, but it's nevertheless shocking the speed with which Phelps and company have gingerly begun proclaiming Ledger's demise and, of course, descension into .

This morning, Phelps -- "Phelpsy" as I like to call him in those intimate moments -- rushed to circulation a bombastic press release announcing the intention of he and his traveling roadshow to protest at Ledger's funeral. Their message, as far as I can tell, is that God took time out of his busy schedule striking down average folks by the thousands in Kenya to teach America a lesson about the evils of sexuality by offing the Joker. According to the press release: "God hates the sordid, tacky bucket of slime seasoned with vomit known as Brokeback Mountain, and he hates all persons having anything whatsoever to do with it."

This is why God was passed over to fill in on Ebert & Roeper while Roger Ebert recovering from surgery -- even Rex Reed isn't as brutal when he doesn't like a movie.

For some time I've held fast to a rather unpopular, if not entirely outlandish opinion: I think Phelps and company are making this crap up. In fact, if it weren't for the fact that they've caused a lot of very real hurt to the families of fallen U.S. soldiers and the victims of assorted other tragedies, I'd probably be one of their biggest fans.

There's simply no way that this level of crazy can be for real.

The antics of the WBC have always been so completely over-the-top, so laugh-out-loud absurd, such a brilliantly ironic indictment of everything its more sophisticated brethren in the Fundamentalist Christian movement stands for that they can't possibly be anything other than Andy Kaufmanesque performance art at its most sublime.

Watching America's garden variety intolerant jackasses stumble and stammer as if Darryl Revok somehow got inside their brains, trying to find a way to simultaneously shun Phelps's psychopathic hostility without dismissing the belief system behind it -- trying to kill only the messenger, as it were -- is just priceless. (If you're looking for a perfect example of this impossible tap-dance, check out the Phelps write-up in Conservapedia.com, in which he's cast as a tool of the Democrats -- as if the Westboro Baptists are so far to the Right that they've gone all the way around and come back on the Left.)

The reality of course -- and I'd love to believe that proving this is secretly their intention -- is that Crazy Fred and his acolytes are doing nothing more than what the Bible instructs. In an admittedly very sick sense, they're people of faith such as even the most ardent Sunday morning church goers will never be. In the same way that a suicide bomber is really little more than an absolute dogmatist -- a believer who has truly done as his sacred text demands by abandoning all rationality to his god -- Fred Phelps has just taken what the Bible itself says and ran with it.

If you've got an issue with him and his "church," then maybe it's time to evoke the sage words of that great religious philosopher, Ice-T: Don't hate the playa, hate the game.

Because Phelps damn sure isn't the only Fundamentalist Christian who called Heath Ledger a sodomite in the wake of "Brokeback Mountain," he's just the only one willing to take his righteous indignation to the next level.

For the record though, practical joke or not, the Westboro Baptists' first foray into the world of celebrity funeral protest should be interesting. They're going to be far away from their home turf and likely walking right into the San Fernando Valley of Death.

God help them.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/chez-p...r_b_82956.html

[T Park]

I go to church and I disagree with him.

Step back from Bouton's head exploding.

[ShoogarBear]

But isn't it true now that the first course of treatment is usually a pill...rather than the less dangerous treatments?

Yes, and no. Now this is out of my area of expertise, but I think that the medications are probably underprescribed in cases where they might be effective, but in other cases given out where they probably aren't necessary. Prescribing practices are also probably extremely variable: some physicians are much quicker on the trigger than others.

Some of it stems from the fact that psychiatry is even less of a science and more of an art than most other areas of medicine. There are numbers that tell you when your blood pressure or glucoses are too high, and you can know when medications are needed and how to track the effect on those numbers. It much more difficult to do that with everyday psychiatric problems.

[ShoogarBear]

Now, the Westboro Baptist Church is an example of a whole group of crazy people who probably could do with some mass medicating.

[CuckingFunt]

Now, the Westboro Baptist Church is an example of a whole group of crazy people who probably could do with some mass medicating.

Since when has arsenic been considered a medication?

[ShoogarBear]

Ahah!


No...but it means our diet is part of the problem...that's my point.

Are we just getting more diabetes out of the blue? Or is it the foods we now eat?

What you're pointing our it the difference between treating the symptoms of a disease versus treating its cause. The jump in type 2 diabetes is almost undoubtedly related to diet. But that doesn't mean the same situation exists for mental illnesses.

Take depression. Assuming there is more depression diagnosed now, is that because there is more depression, or because we're more sensitive to diagnosing it now? The latter is definitely true; I don't think anybody knows about the former. (There's some reported evidence that Abraham Lincoln was bipolar.)

It's in the same argumental ballpark as serial killers and child molestation (not that I'm trying to compare them to the depressed). Do you think there's "more" of it now because society is so different, or has it always been there to this extent and we're just more upfront about recognizing it? I think the latter argument is stronger.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

I think allowing the WBC to spread their hatred allows the rest of us to see that they're so far out there.

[NASpurs]

Don't know if this has been posted already but check this out


http://www.bestweekever.tv/2008/01/2...answer-always/

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Don't know if this has been posted already but check this out


http://www.bestweekever.tv/2008/01/...-answer-always/

I love America!

[CuckingFunt]

Don't know if this has been posted already but check this out


http://www.bestweekever.tv/2008/01/2...answer-always/

That is capital-k Klassy.

[mrsmaalox]

Since when has arsenic been considered a medication?

I think starting now

[boutons_]

T_pork, my head's fine, thank you. Has your bloated gut exploded, yet?

Another one of your phobic, conservative heroes being A Big Man with a Big Heart and Dyed Hair:

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/23/...-mocks-ledger/