No - The team is now weaker in crucial areas
Yes - Kidd is what is needed to get them that championship
It's not AS bad though right? That black hole that is the JET sometimes is frustrating...it's not like he's doing exploratory runs into the paint or looking for cutters...he just dribbles around the outside for a bit.
I think your Mavs team finally is moving the ball much better and they won't fold in crunch time....the biggest knock on the Mavs in prior years. I don't think Kidd is the "championship" missing piece but he's made the Mavs better.
A fairly well reasoned post, and one I would agree with if it was 4 years ago, but now that Kidd can't shoot and other teams don't even have to honor him.....it makes the trade bad, IMHO.
DD
Ha dirks never been that short of leader! Thats well do ented. What this team needed was a point guard The great teams had it ... and the mavs didn't.
People have been saying that of dirk for years. Ever wonder why some of his best years were with Nash at the point? Devin is not a point. He tries but in 3 years it hasn't panned out. This team tried too hard to convert baskets this year and that was hugely in part to not having a point guard running the show. When Kidd got here they got easy transition baskets and when they didn't score off the initial thrust, they got mismatches from the push in transition that led to easy baskets. this team doesn't struggle on offense now. And now the defense is starting to pick up significantly.
Just as the playoffs are starting ti roll around.
Oh yeah and about the chemistry thing, Devin's been here longer so his record will be a lil higher. Given Kidd that same stretch next year and we'll talk.
Audio,
I hear ya !!
I just think you are wrong....Devin is just coming into his prime, whereas Kidd left his behind a few years back.
Although I would take him over Alston if he were in a wheel chair.
DD
Since when needing a pure point become a requisite to success in the playoffs? Billups, Fisher, Jason Williams, Parker, and Steve Kerr are not pure point guards. They were great spot up shooters and slashers. Kidd can only hit open 3's at this point in his career and can't slash when his defender is in front of him in the half court.
all i have to say is Jordan, Kobe, Wade, Shaq, Duncan all guards except for 2 of the greatest center in NBA history ...
Billups is a true point NOW. jason is very streaky and a defensive liability. Kerr was an excellent bus driver. But then again his only job was to hit open shots. Fisher is a very small 2 guard. But again, all he had to do was play tough and hit open shots. These weren.t called to run a team. But Kidd was. parker, just now is starting to shoot a lil bit better, but he still can be slowed a lot in the half court. He's much better in transition and defense.
I think the biggest plus is that Dirk is playing much better, but that could also be partly due to the fact that he gives a now whereas I remember early in the season, everyone was talking about him declining and forever impaired by the GS series.
On the other hand, Kidd from what I've seen, is still rendered useless in many of their halfcourt situations, and the Mavs still too dependent on the ISO with Dirk late in games.
The only way the Kidd trade is good is if the Mavericks win the championship this year or next.
Dirk was playing well before the trade. Dirk's injury was what finally made Howard play better. The only player that improved significantly by the trade is Dampier. The Mavs were 23-6 against the western conference before the Kidd trade, and have probably have the best record in the NBA since Harris came back from injury toward the end of 2006. I think the Mavericks were in position for first round HCA before the trade, and now they are battling just to make the playoffs. The only silver lining is that they can't take any games off at the end of the season and enter the playoffs in a funk.
If the Mavs start to play defense and dominate the boards, which were the focus when AJ took over and the team suddenly got good, they will have a chance in the playoffs. Unless that happens, they'll be lucky to win two games in any first round series.
Um, excuse me?
He was averaging around 22 points a game, shooting below 30% from the three point line, and if you watched the games you'd have seen his body language which was total . He looked like a guy who didn't believe in his team. Now things are way different. Dirk was completely reenergized by this trade.
I watched the games, and he started going more forcefully into the paint, drawing contact and really working to dictate the game a month before the trade. I never said he played well the whole season before the trade. Dirk leads by example, and I thought that he was trying to set it, and began doing so while Harris and Diop were still on the team. I'd bet that his free throw attempts per game went up at that point, but you can confirm that for me.
It's possible that he was reenergized by the trade rumors, and you are welcome to make up any justification you like, but Dirk is well aware that a major factor in the loss to the Warriors was the team peaking at the wrong time. That he would have kicked it up a notch when he did is hardly unexpected. If Dirk didn't believe in the team prior to the trade, I'm not sure what the catalyst is to suddenly believe in the turd that the Mavericks have been since Kidd arrived. Dirk doesn't love moral victories the same way his fan base seems to.
Good take Allanon. You pretty much summed it up. They gave up on Devin's future for the risk that Kidd can get them over the hump. I think there's just too many good teams out there and they probably won't, but it gives them the proverbial fighting chance they didn't have. Only problem is that they'll only have the MLE to try and shore up backup center and the two-guard spot in the summer, unless they're willing to make a big splash and trade Josh and the Basshole.
This trade was an impulse trade, not a trade to pan out "for the future" at all. If Kidd does not deliver a le or long playoff run for the Mavs, this trade would be considered a disaster and a horrible one. Kidd isn't in a retirement home yet, so even if he doesn't help them win it this year, he still has at least 2 solid years left to do it.
It was a smart trade though, in the West you have to make big moves if you don't have a strong grasp on the conference in order to make some noise in the post-season, and everyone had a feeling that the Mavs team as it was constructed was not getting it done. Having made the Finals and losing in the way they did in the collapse of last year just isn't something you can keep a team together as-is. But is Kidd really the solution to those problems? I really don't think that a PG like Kidd was ever really thought of when you think about the Mavs' problems, but as I said, big moves need to be made to make a splash in the league, especially in a conference so tough as the West where there are 6 teams that could legitimately make the Finals and win.
I know very well that regular season means nothing if you make it to the playoffs (I'm a Spurs fan, after all) so I am not ready to judge this trade completely, yet. However I am not completely impressed with the Mavericks team after this Kidd trade. I live in Dallas and watch nearly all their games and I just don't see much new to the table, in general I see the same team that has the same end of game techniques and execution.
Kidd is nice for some appeal, passes and defense but I don't see this being a big enough trade to win them the le, which was the point of this panic-mode trade. As a Spurs fan (and many have said the same), I like seeing the Mavericks without Harris and Diop, like it or not, sheets or numbers can't say how big of factors they were against us, but I don't see any significant improvements Kidd has done for the Mavs team. The chemistry has been much better since his initial games on the team, yes, but I don't see this trade making them any better, or any worse than they were.
The big problem is all they gave up for Kidd, I know a whole new season is happening soon and anything can change, undoubtedly, however for this Mavs team, a Jason Kidd isn't that missing piece needed to win the a le. In the end, a trade WAS necessary for that Mavs team, but they probably could have gotten something better than Kidd, I didn't know who was shopping and shipping what, but a big man in the paint is what is needed to put the Mavs over the top, not an aging point guard.
you people seem to forget that Harris was injured before, during and after the trade. Odds are, they would have lost all those games.
And ALL they gave up??? What exactly did they give up that was of any consequence. Harris was nothing in the half court. He basically passed the ball from one side to the other. Why do you think Avery ran so many plays for this team? And diop was just a backup center [although you do need one] He wasn't having that good of a year anyways so it wasn't too big a loss. Oh and a few picks on unproven talent. If youre trying to build a championship you think youre going to do that in the next 2-3 years in the draft? No, you use that trade value for proven talent now.
If you can't see the difference in the team now as opposed to when harris was here, then i don't think anyone could help you. You must not be watching the same games.
Last edited by Audio 2; 04-10-2008 at 07:51 AM.
You are full of .
If you really watched the games, you would have known that he didn't really get forceful until about 2 games before the all-star break, which happened to coincide with the time period when the Kidd rumors got serious. Prior to that, he had been very inconsistent the entire season.
Now I'm not saying I don't agree with you talking about how Dirk did not want to peak at the wrong time. That is a very good possibility, but he was not playing well until about the time the Kidd rumors got serious. Perhaps it was a coincedence, but he absolutely did not pick up his game a whole month prior to the trade.
and this is what pisses me off when people criticize the trade. what big men were available that could put us over the top? its not like there are many great big men avaliable, and the ones that are even any good are usually not going to be available. they had to do what they could, and Kidd would help them and their stagnant offense, which was their biggest problem.
Did you read my other part of the statement? I am aware of that, I was making that claim in a general sense of the spectrum, I didn't know who was shopping what, but I am certain that if they were offering to trade more and mix up their team a bit (something needed for this team to get a boost of life) they could have gotten a formidable big man for what they were sending out. I didn't mean an all-star to be gotten in a trade or anything.
I did read that, and I wasn't entirely referring to you in my post. It was to people who strongly criticize the trade and says we could have gotten a big man, when in fact, we most likely could not have. what big men are even out there that can get us over the top? please, just name some. fact is, just about any big man worth getting is not available, or would not help us win a le. Gasol or Shaq would not have helped us. Gasol plays no defense, and Shaq is a ing cancer, I don't care what people say. Unless we were giving up JJ Barea for him, I don't want him on this team, because he will the whole team up within 2 seasons. Notice that every team he left, he left on bad terms and tore the lockerroom up and the franchises went downhill. Orlando. LA. Miami. and it was not because of his departure either, because the teams were already going downhill even with him. his fat, lazy, lethargic at ude is NOT something we need on this team.
Stretch just proved that he's a genius
what, do you hate shaq too?
shaq is a piece of garbage.
I wasn't actually talking about his production, but instead his shot selection, his aggression and his defense. And I certainly wouldn't characterize Dirk's play this season as "very inconsistent".
Dirk attempted 94 free throws in November, 91 in December, and 141 in January, but it was only about two weeks before Kidd arrived, and not a "full month" as you say. Those numbers look to have plummetted since Kidd actually arrived in town, so I'm reluctant to grant that it was excitement about Kidd that made Dirk turn it around. Regardless, he did it when Kidd was still in New Jersey, and persisted when the trade looked to be dead. It's always possible that they had a couple of big tests against the west and Dirk stepped up for them because it was time to do it. He lived in the paint against the Lakers and was really aggressive against the Celtics. If he hadn't let Rondo beat him out for that rebound they could have won that Boston game.
And I might be mistaken, but I think Kidd was already a Maverick two days before the all star break.
I don't hate Shaq at all but I think you are completely correct about his lazy work ethic and the way he demoralizes locker rooms after he leaves.
seriously. like we would have a great chance at winning a le with him here, but it doesnt matter because if people think our future is ed by trading away Harris and Diop, it would be about 100x worse if we had traded for Shaq. We still have a good outlook for the future with this team. But with Shaq, your future is good as ed.
Dirk's play early in the season was inconsistent. He was shooting in the low 40%, and under 30% on 3s.
I agree that he started to play a bit harder around January or so, but he didn't really take off until around the time that the Kidd rumors were serious.
Also, it was you who said he picked it up for a whole month, and I disagreed.
And you are mistaken. The trade wasn't completed until after the all-star break.
And the thing I don't understand is how people rave about his defense, his defense seems pretty sub par to me, he can get a couple of blocks but all he does is usually just wack the out of the person driving to the rim. I would take Damp's defense to Shaq's anyday. If Damp only had some better hands he would be a double double man.
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