The boy thinks too much. Just make the game simple and build from there. The uncertainty of the lineup also kills players confidence. Castle and champaigne both were moved to the bench after a series of goodto great games. Sochan played well and then was moved on and off the bench. Vassell was kept on the SL even though he played like crap for a few games. Now he has a few good games I won’t be surprised he’d be moved to the bench for whatever reason.
The players have no idea what to do and what is expected of them and these youngins are confused.
Spurs are going to pay him. They seem committed to dying on that hill. Go look at Twitter - there are fans claiming he’s a starter. Heck - literally saying the Spurs won the game because of him.
We all know how this ends once the Spurs overpay him like Collins.
In fairness he is improving
Lineups are driven by two things so far this year: injuries/return from injuries and floor spacing. Acquiring Fox without sending out a heavy usage player also led to some rotation changes, since more than Tre’s 16 minutes would be absorbed by Fox.
If only Sochan could play like he did last night every night. He was downright disruptive and was in every defensive play. I think that’s what the Spurs are banking on and hoping he could tap into consistently. Because quite frankly there’s not many in the league who could do what he did last night.
I know half (or more) of this board hate him, but I still think this kid is going to be an elite roleplayer. He was our second best player before he went down early this year, and is starting to show that again lately. He is constantly moved out of position (point guard AND center) and has been a trooper the entire time.
The hatred of him is completely bizarre to me… he is 21 and is showing glimpses of elite level play in every facet of the game besides shooting.
He’s playing very good and his 3PT shot looks better than it ever has IMO. Still lots to prove in terms of consistency but he’s playing well
Yea kid legit does everything asked as well as he can, works hard, is tough and doesn't back down, competes, and doesn't ever feel sorry for himself.
Has improved in every way since coming in with a horrible cast of surrounding players to help him learn the game.
No clue why you'd have a problem with that. 21 with tons of potential still.
I remember last season Jeremy shot 46.7% from 3 in November, and a lot of folks on this site pointed to that as a sign that Jeremy had worked on and fixed his shot, but it turned out it was just a blip. By December, he was back to 32.5%, in Jan he had another good month shooting 37.5%, then February - April he only shot 21.5%.
Point being, maybe Jeremy's shot is turning around, but let's not get too excited about his last 6 3PA.
Specifically the 2nd half. In the first half he was pretty terrible, and I noted that Mitch went away from him and to Mamu the next rotation. Seemed like Jeremy received the message that Mitch was sending and responded very well. I agree with you - if that is full time Sochan, it would be great.
I disagree with the notion that he's shown "elite level play in every facet". That sounds like we've just forgotten what elite level play looks like because we've been bad for so long.
He's shown he can be good at a lot of things. He's shown he can be an elite perimeter defender. That's about as far as I'd go with throwing the "elite" word around.
With that said, he's had to suffer through the coaches making him into things he is not. I think expectations need to be level set on what Jeremy is. He's a role player, not a star. He's always going to be the 5h option on offense. All of those things are actually okay - but as long as we recognize his role on the team I think it's easy to see his potential. Evaluating him as though he is supposed to be something more is always going to lead to disappointment. At the same time, when his contract negotiations come up the Spurs also need to pay him like a role player who's always going to be a 5th option. We're going to do our team a disservice to pay him in the hopes he becomes someone he is not.
god, i cant remember who it was. i believe it was fuzzy lumpkins... but when his 3pt shooting regressed back to normal, Fuzzy hypothesized that it wasnt because the earlier shooting was a fluke, but instead sochan was thrown off his game because he switched positions and was shooting better as a point guard than as a power forward
People need to set aside their immediate term frustrations, Sochan or otherwise, and look at the big picture. Him getting hurt and losing some confidence has slowed his development. That can get us more lotto balls and a renewal discount on his services. We don’t need him to suddenly become a max level rookie contract extension expense.
And yeah coaching needs to develop him better, put him in better spots to succeed, blah blah….
It's irrational, seems many decided exactly what he was as a 20y/o, 2nd yr guy playing playing Point-forward, on a team built to tank, with a bunch of 20-23 y/o guys.
Sochan has EXCEEDED reasonable expectations- he's shooting .544/.340/.722 with a 11.9/7.3/2.6A:1.8TO line.
He's increased his scoring with a significant reduction in FGA, significantly increased rebs in less minutes. He's a good rebounder, an elite O-rebounder (over 10%, ranks Top 20 in the ing league behind Jarret Allen and KAT), he's way above average at getting to the line and he has happily done whatever the team asked. He's also done this recovering from injury and without anything close to a consistent role.
He is has been as good and arguably better this season at 21 than any season Aaron Gordon had from age 21-24 mostly playing similar minutes (more efficient scorer w/less shots, significantly better rebounder, better steals, similar blocks & A:TOs) but Aaron had a consistent role.
Sochan has gone from 24.6% to 30.8% to 34.0% on 3s. Yeah, the volume is low this yr, but someone on this ing teams needs to worry about O-rebs and putbacks and Sochan is elite at those.
Not everyone on the team should be hanging around the 3-pt line, O-rebs and FTAs are very valuable too.
The hate is so stupid. If Sochan gets to 36% from 3 next yr, very possible if not downright likely given his progression, he is an elite role player at the age of 22. WTF do you guys want?
He was still shooting that 45 degree axial tilt shot,and that was never going to be good, long term.
I like Jeremy and actually believe he has a nice role on this team as a 6th man.
But, man, J-Dub was sitting right there waiting to be drafted. What a huge whiff of a draft.
Only a few members want to straight up get rid of him, most of us are just concerned that he won't be worth the money.
If we get him for under 20 million a year, that would be solid value.
And those 3pt percentages mean absolutely nothing when he's alone in the gym for every single one of those shots and takes 1.5 per game this season, hence the percentage improvement.
https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1631110/shots-dash
He made exactly 0 of them with a defender within 6 feet of him. That's a non-shooter.
How many has he made when he mattered? Or even attempted. We all remember those awful passes to him late in the shot clock that always ended horribly.
As I said last summer, there's a bigger gap between a non-shooter (Jeremy) and a bad shooter (Castle) than between a bad shooter and a good shooter.
And it shows. Bad shooters can improve within months with just minor tweaks to their mechanics, non-shooters struggle to make their jumpshot look functional even after years of NBA coaches trying to help them.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not ting on Jeremy as an overall player, I just think that anyone optimistic about his shooting development is deluded.
He needs to develop an array of hook shots, push shots and short range fadeaways from inside the paint to become a positive player offensively. Not everyone can become a solid 3pt shooter, but he needs to play with purpose inside and he needs to finish more situations because right now he can't create anything for himself unless it's a huge mismatch or a putback.
Last edited by LeBowen; 02-11-2025 at 04:08 PM.
I largely agree, but there's at least 1 other area he is definitely elite this yr: OReb% of 10.1% puts him at #18 in the league.
His overall Reb% of 14.6% ranks at 31 this season.
I don't know where to look up Distance ranks, but Sochan is at 72.3% within 3 ft. That maybe not be elite, but its damn good.
There's plenty of areas where he hasn't looked elite, but he is elite at grabbing ORebs this season.
All true LeBowen. Its definitely a value proposition and I think moving to the bench will deflate his market value, so I'm not mad about it.
Also thanks for the link, appreciate the data.
It's the hate I don't get. That chart shows he doesn't take the 3 when guarded, rarely takes it him he's open, and takes most they give to him wide-open. I'm OK with that because he realizes there are better shooters on the court with him.
He is marginally progressing, he shot <26% on wide open 3s as a rook, <33% last yr, 39.5% this yr. He is mostly a non-shooter, but he's getting better at hitting the wide open looks and is a great garbage man which is usually undervalued.
He's hit 1 of 8 with guys within 4-6' so not 0, 0 of 2 guys 2-4' (doesn't shoot them unless closing seconds), hasn't taken one with 0-2' (passes the ball).
He passes the ball to a better shooter, that's what I want him doing right now, passing when they close out, hitting almost 40% when they dare him to shoot. May be not ideal, better would be better, but not deserving the hate.
With Wemby playing more on the perimeter you actually need a PF who’s a good perimeter defender, but plays like a C on offense. That‘s exactly who Sochan is and it’s a pretty rare profile.
https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1631110/shooting
There's also this link, different set of shooting stats.
This forum is full of people who aren't exactly mentally stable, don't take it seriously.It's the hate I don't get.
The issue isn't that he's not taking those shots, it's that it's way easier to scheme against a team that has a non-shooter on the floor.That chart shows he doesn't take the 3 when guarded, rarely takes it him he's open, and takes most they give to him wide-open. I'm OK with that because he realizes there are better shooters on the court with him.
He is marginally progressing, he shot <26% on wide open 3s as a rook, <33% last yr, 39.5% this yr. He is mostly a non-shooter, but he's getting better at hitting the wide open looks and is a great garbage man which is usually undervalued.
Every time Jeremy is on the floor with Wemby and isn't directly involved in the action it's a 5v4 for defense with Jeremy sitting in the corner. They're all willing to accept the risk of him crashing the glass and getting an offensive rebound, but it shrinks the floor so much for us.
If we had elite shooters in other positions, it would be fine. But even with shooting improvements Fox and Castle are both average at best at their position.
It's simplistic, but I think adding two 40% 3pt shooters on the wings would make this team near-unstoppable on offense with Fox figuring his teammates out and Wemby/Castle becoming more consistent shooters.
I see Jeremy as a glue guy off the bench who can do whatever is needed, but I can't see him in the starting lineup with this roster construction.
If we got let's say Garland who's a great 3pt shooter instead of Fox, it would've been easier to start Jeremy, but not like this. At least not in my opinion.
Al Horford has an ugly ass 3 PT shot but over the years went from shooting low to mid 30s into the 40s and as high as 45%. He just needs to keep shooting! Being afraid out there is the biggest enemy.
Not sure a 6th man is legit with his level of scoring profile, but I get what you are saying. Maybe more of a co-6th or 7th man. But, if everyone else in the SL is a scorer, he may actually fit OK there. Fox-Castle-Sochan-future PF-WembyI like Jeremy and actually believe he has a nice role on this team as a 6th man.
But, man, J-Dub was sitting right there waiting to be drafted. What a huge whiff of a draft.
I’d say the PF needs to be able to shoot but maybe we need to accept that any player ideally must be able
to shoot as a given moving forward. Possible exception a bench big who excels at REBs and blocks.
Sochan and his team will probably be looking for the same dumbass deal that Patrick Williams got (5y/90mil). That's a definite deal breaker IMO.
I think somewhere in the ballpark that Okungwu got (4yr/63mil) is fair.
I still don't understand picking up the option on Branham and Wesley, will be especially dumb if they don't get moved in a trade as salary filler this offseason tbh.
Its not rocket science...
Fox
Castle
Sochan
Barnes
Wemby
start them, start winning, get a decent bench group run by cp3 -
done.
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