NRA press conference in response to NewTown massacre

[DMC]

That is a terrible insult to Ron Paul.

Fuzzy is a ing idiot.

I am aware they have different ideologies, but they are both too radical to effect change. It's just a token stance at this point, for either of them.

[CosmicCowboy]

meh. The electorate is changing and once Boomers die off then who knows what the disposition would be. Times change. , this time last year the talk was that both parties were afraid to bring it up. Now? Not so much.

I am more interested in finding effective policy than posturing about political will about generalities.

It's not lost on me that you ignored a few points that were the crux of what I was saying though. I will requote them:



You apparently need some more intellectual handholding. Where do you think the guns the cartels use are purchased other than from the US and smuggled?

It's the same argument about Chicago.



Then you look at the Indiana gun laws and the relative position of Indiana to Chicago. Critical thinking.

Central America is loaded with guns, not to mention the Cartels relationships with hamas/hezbolla. They would still have guns if ZERO guns crossed the US / Mexico border.

[boutons_deux]

So you agree that draconian strict gun laws don't prevent criminals from getting guns?

duh.

Thanks for playing.

no, dumb , I pointed out that strict MX guns laws are useless unless enforced, just like any law or regulation.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

That is a terrible insult to Ron Paul.

Fuzzy is a ing idiot.

You are just like WC in this.

I fyou are going to call me stupid then you need to point out how. Otherwise you just seem petulant.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Central America is loaded with guns, not to mention the Cartels relationships with hamas/hezbolla. They would still have guns if ZERO guns crossed the US / Mexico border.

You suck at reading comprehension too. I am here to help though.

Look at the word 'other' in the sentence that I used and try and think about how it modifies the following phrase.

Definition of OTHER

1
a : being the one (as of two or more) remaining or not included <held on with one hand and waved with the other one>

[DMC]

And you have yet to make a compelling argument.

radical

Was a semiautomatic ban effective in Australia or not?

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/05/gun-control-in-australia


Some scholars even credit the 1996 gun law with causing the decrease in deaths from firearms, though they are still debating that point. A 2003 study from AIC, which looked at rates between 1991 and 2001, found that some of the decline in firearm-related homicides (and suicides as well) began before the reform was enacted. On the other hand, a 2006 analysis by scholars at the University of Sydney concluded that gun fatalities decreased more quickly after the reform. Yet another analysis, from 2008, from the University of Melbourne, concluded that the buyback had no significant effect on firearm suicide or homicide rates.
So there’s no consensus about whether the changes decreased gun violence or had little to no effect.

Australia is ranked 13th in the world in firearms owned per 100K people. Supposedly they went from a 7% ownership to a 5% ownership.

Then there's this most recent news:

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/su...909-25lw5.html

So you think the laws stopped all the mass shootings?

[CosmicCowboy]

no, dumb , I pointed out that strict MX guns laws are useless unless enforced, just like any law or regulation.

So if criminals broke the law to have guns it's law enforcements fault for not catching all of them?

Kind of like what happens in the US?

[DMC]

Central America is loaded with guns, not to mention the Cartels relationships with hamas/hezbolla. They would still have guns if ZERO guns crossed the US / Mexico border.

Which this admin wouldn't allow, since they prefer giving assault weapons to cartels.

[boutons_deux]

So if criminals broke the law to have guns it's law enforcements fault for not catching all of them?

Kind of like what happens in the US?

The US doesn't enforce its weak gun regs anway. 40% of gun sales have no b/g checks, etc, etc, etc.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Never timed it, but what's a half second between friends?

If you tie the trigger back, you can shoot a revolver much faster than you can a semi-auto.




Since the clip is the spring, you must mean magazines.

Speed reloaders are not bersome. They are smaller than magazines and you can load them incredibly fast without needing to release the action afterward.

Not enough obviously, but strange argument given the earlier argument that there are too many guns thus the high gun death rate. Are there too many knives?

If you mean the Australia gun ban, that's par per for gun debates. Australia always had different laws concerning guns. You cannot simply superimpose their laws onto Americans and pretend you will get the same results. BTW, check out New Zealand's gun laws.

Take a look at Mexico's gun laws, then note that Mexico's death by gun rate is higher than the US. Socioeconomic factors, no doubt, but the US has the same factors in parts of each city.

Generalized anecdotes inserted for facts and a semantic argument. BRAVO!!

I am not getting in the line by line thing with you. I have no desire to debate spread style. It's a lame tactic especially in a public forum.

And of course you not just superimpose laws and have the exact results given two different subjects. OTOH outside of Canada, what country or countries do you think are the closest to the US socially, politically and economically. Do you disagree that the UK and Australia are right at the top of the list?

And we can certainly talk about NZ gun laws. What does it take to get a pistol in NZ?

[Wild Cobra]

The US doesn't enforce its weak gun regs anway. 40% of gun sales have no b/g checks, etc, etc, etc.

Since when do criminal checks matter to criminals? There is a huge illegal arms network in the world.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/05/gun-control-in-australia


Some scholars even credit the 1996 gun law with causing the decrease in deaths from firearms, though they are still debating that point. A 2003 study from AIC, which looked at rates between 1991 and 2001, found that some of the decline in firearm-related homicides (and suicides as well) began before the reform was enacted. On the other hand, a 2006 analysis by scholars at the University of Sydney concluded that gun fatalities decreased more quickly after the reform. Yet another analysis, from 2008, from the University of Melbourne, concluded that the buyback had no significant effect on firearm suicide or homicide rates.
So there’s no consensus about whether the changes decreased gun violence or had little to no effect.

Australia is ranked 13th in the world in firearms owned per 100K people. Supposedly they went from a 7% ownership to a 5% ownership.

Then there's this most recent news:

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/su...909-25lw5.html

So you think the laws stopped all the mass shootings?

You still didn't read the study I posted. That much is obvious.

[spursncowboys]

Generalized anecdotes inserted for facts and a semantic argument. BRAVO!!

I am not getting in the line by line thing with you. I have no desire to debate spread style. It's a lame tactic especially in a public forum.

And of course you not just superimpose laws and have the exact results given two different subjects. OTOH outside of Canada, what country or countries do you think are the closest to the US socially, politically and economically. Do you disagree that the UK and Australia are right at the top of the list?

And we can certainly talk about NZ gun laws. What does it take to get a pistol in NZ?

How dare you good sir!!

[FuzzyLumpkins]

you not liking the Canadians?

[DMC]

You still didn't read the study I posted. That much is obvious.

I just cited you three different studies all saying different things.

The issue is that gun control/ban folks focus on gun related homicides instead of just homicides in general. They point out how gun related homicides decreased after the ban, but ignore that the homicide rate remained fairly constant.

Even your "study" is led
faster falls in firearm deaths, firearm suicides, and a decade without mass shootings

Cherry picking homicides to prove a point. Like a parent is more comforted if their child died by a knife or by being beaten to death.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I just cited you three different studies all saying different things.

The issue is that gun control/ban folks focus on gun related homicides instead of just homicides in general. They point out how gun related homicides decreased after the ban, but ignore that the homicide rate remained fairly constant.

Even your "study" is led
faster falls in firearm deaths, firearm suicides, and a decade without mass shootings

Cherry picking homicides to prove a point. Like a parent is more comforted if their child died by a knife or by being beaten to death.

No you didn't. You cited factcheck and it said 2 things.

1) that the buyback had no apparent effect. ie unrelated.
2) that the rate of change was increased.

You still haven't read the study and are trying to drawline between unrelated subjects. None of them are mutually exclusive.

And your theage article is at best a one year sample and certainly does not indicate that Aussie homicide rates have remained constant.

How many australian mass shootings have there been since 1996?

[CosmicCowboy]

No you didn't. You cited factcheck and it said 2 things.

1) that the buyback had no apparent effect. ie unrelated.
2) that the rate of change was increased.

You still haven't read the study and are trying to drawline between unrelated subjects. None of them are mutually exclusive.

And your theage article is at best a one year sample and certainly does not indicate that Aussie homicide rates have remained constant.

How many australian mass shootings have there been since 1996?

Just move to Australia if you love it so much. That isn't happening in the US even after the baby boomers die off.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

FFS from your newage article

But Dr Stuart Ross, a criminologist from the University of Melbourne, warns that a year of data can't be taken out of context.

"After 10 years of a continuing downward trend I think you would want to wait to have more than a year of data to see if things have really changed," he said of Victoria's crime rise.

Police also note that even with the big jump in homicides the rate still fell far below the rest of the world, including most of Canada and the USA.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Just move to Australia if you love it so much. That isn't happening in the US even after the baby boomers die off.

Uh huh. Posturing is fun. Like I said last year they said we would not even have this political conversation. What I take from this is that you acknowledge the efficacy of Australia's actions and now are being a little about it.

[CosmicCowboy]

Uh huh. Posturing is fun. Like I said last year they said we would not even have this political conversation. What I take from this is that you acknowledge the efficacy of Australia's actions and now are being a little about it.

Nothing is holding you back and keeping you here. Move if you think Australia's system is so much better than ours. 22 hours on a plane and you can be in your gun free heaven.

I'm not saying that is not a great choice for some (you apparently)

I'm saying the USA will never go that route.

Could be the way both continents were founded.

Australia? Prisoners from the UK dumped on an island in the middle of nowhere. They got good with killing with rocks and knives.

[DMC]

No you didn't. You cited factcheck and it said 2 things.

1) that the buyback had no apparent effect. ie unrelated.
2) that the rate of change was increased.

You still haven't read the study and are trying to drawline between unrelated subjects. None of them are mutually exclusive.

And your theage article is at best a one year sample and certainly does not indicate that Aussie homicide rates have remained constant.

How many australian mass shootings have there been since 1996?

Why are mass shootings worse than serial shootings? Aren't you just playing a political card to draw the distinction? Deaths are deaths. If the time between killings is 2 days or 2 minutes or 2 seconds, it's still the same number of deaths.

[DMC]

FFS from your newage article

One mass shooting happens within a year. Is that then irrelevant if a year goes by afterward and another doesn't happen? Here you want to ignore a year's worth of data but focus on one single event. And do you think that murders with semi-auto weapons can still occur but somehow magically mass shootings won't? Care to explain how that works?

[DMC]

Uh huh. Posturing is fun. Like I said last year they said we would not even have this political conversation. What I take from this is that you acknowledge the efficacy of Australia's actions and now are being a little about it.

Correlation does not equate to cause.

[DMC]

Australia 2012 Crime and Safety Report: Sydney
Stolen items; Theft; Assault; Burglary; Drug Trafficking; Extreme heat/drought; Wildfires; Floods; Hurricanes
East Asia & Pacific > Australia > Canberra; East Asia & Pacific > Australia > Sydney
3/27/2012
Overall Crime and Safety Situation

Crime Threats

The Bureau of Diplomatic Security rated the overall crime situation in Sydney and throughout Australia as MEDIUM. Travelers should exercise the same level of caution and security awareness as they would in any major city in the United States. The most common crimes encountered by Australians and foreign residents alike in Sydney are assaults (non-domestic) and breaking and entering. Armed robberies also occur. In these cases, the most common weapon used is a knife or other cutting implement that account for 35 percent of murders. Australia has extremely restrictive firearms legislation that make the purchase, possession, licensing, and storage of firearms very difficult when compared to U.S. jurisdictions. Local police have attributed a majority of burglaries and robberies to growing problems with substance abuse including methamphetamines (ICE). The crime trend for the past 12 months has remained static although reductions in some crimes have occurred. For example, assaults have dropped 6.4 percent from 2009/10 figures. Also stealing from the person and breaking and entering incidents have dropped by 5.8 percent and 3.6 percent, respectively.

In 2011, the Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research (BOCSAR) reported that Darlinghurst Road in Kings Cross, Oxford Street in Darlinghurst, King Street in Newtown, Glebe Point Road in Glebe, and George Street in the CBD were hotspots for city violence. Typically, alcohol fueled this violence. The BOCSAR report found that 56.8 percent of assaults in the city centre were within 50m of a liquor outlet.

Sydney’s murder rate has halved in the past decade, falling to its lowest level in recent history. Homicide cases have dropped from 88 in 2001 to 43 in 2011, reflecting a statewide trend in which murders fell from 119 to 77. The rate of one homicide per 100,000 people is the lowest in many years, according to BOSCAR. The percentage of murders committed with a firearm has declined across Australia since 1999 to approximately 15 percent currently. This is often attributed to stricter gun laws passed after the Port Arthur Massacre of 1996, yet gun violence has not declined accordingly. Improvements in policing are thought to have contributed to Sydney's falling murder rate, including crackdowns on Middle Eastern crime, gang violence, and domestic violence. Familial homicide, or murder committed by a spouse or relative, accounts for about 40 percent of murders in NSW.

[Latarian Milton]

banning guns ain't gonna help decrease cide rate by any means since the criminals would always find other weapons like knives, stones or even bare hands to kill innocent people one way or another. guns ain't a threat to the society imho, the real threat lies in the evil minds of thugs and the only way to protect the innocent people is by having more good-minded people armed with guns imho.