Bill Maher called an Islamophobe for acknowledging reality

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Yeah, Alexandra Pelosi likes to interview poor, uneducated people and show them on Bill's show. Here's another

I've seen that one too

Obamabucks

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I'm pretty sure he was a Lutheran. He was a mathematics professor at a seminary school and was highly motivated throughout his career by his religious beliefs. Maybe I missed something there, but a few sources I looked at said his first inclination was to become a minister.

You're right in that practically all of those guys' works were rejected by the catholic church and many were accused of heresy. You'll never find me defending the catholic church. DoK made a throwaway statement about Christians perpetuating ridiculous and erroneous scientific views throughout history. I gave a simplistic response stating that many of the biggest breakthroughs in science were made by men of faith. I was basically saying he was right, but that it goes both ways. Overall, I think it's a moot point.

What venue could a man not of the faith go to and promote those ideas during that time? Recorded history outside of the church was nonexistent. I know you like to paint that as the the catholic church but the alternative eastern orthodoxies were worse. Church founders like Nestor went a long way towards making the dark ages so dark. That was kind of the point.

And lets keep in mind that much of the tiness went on before and during the time period of the council of nice. You know the Nicean Creed and all that. The First Pick and Choose Creed.

The church wiped out any methodology that differed from their own with impunity. They set up all the schools. It's only been in the last 100 years that secular schools existed in significant numbers. Now the only dogma factories are places like Orel Roberts. The church had the western world for over a millennium.

So now you can try and divorce yourself from that legacy because you are a protestant but we get a whole lot of anti-intellectualism from your bretheren. The Catholics at least learned its lesson but the people on this continent want to see if they can pull it off.

[exstatic]

What I don't get is why right wingers who agree with me about Islam supported a war that removed what was a secular dictator in Iraq, and also supported a president who allied America with the biggest Islamic theocracy in the world.

Not to mention that they hated Maher's guts until 5 minutes ago.

[rjv]

actually, now that i think about it, maher's stance does make sense in that it really backs up obama's position.

http://www.zcommunications.org/obama...y-ali-abunimah

[RandomGuy]

the question is from does where right and wrong originate? I say God and all things he created.

No it doesn't. It comes from us.

You can't claim God is moral, because the God in the Bible.. is far from it.

I will call Bull on this. Prove that statement.

[RandomGuy]

Are you intentionally ignoring the New Testament, which pre-dates the United States? Just read the words of Jesus and tell me how he's not a source of morals? Tell me where Martin Luther King Jr. was wrong?

Tell me exactly where Jesus said to ignore God's old testament edicts in the new testament. You don't get to weasel out of that the old testament albatross that easily. I'm not ignoring anything.

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

15:4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.

When Jesus was talking about this, it was not in the context of telling people to disobey it, he was admonishing others for not living up to God's law.

Further, what does pre-dating the US have anything to do with this?

[RandomGuy]

It's a tool used to encourage ignorance. And ignorance usually leads to all kinds of ill . I get and agree with that.

But, you seem to admit that some good can come from a christian belief system.

Which leads to the following point: the fact that some good can come out of a belief system responsible for a lot of bad leads me to believe the issue isn't so much with the belief system itself, but how people use it.

I disagree.

Believing in something without good evidence is inherently a bad thing, because it predisposes you to other acts of blind faith. That is a huge intellectual drawback, don't you think?

Wouldn't a better rule for determining what to believe or trust be "place trust only where it is earned?"

[RandomGuy]

You must be equal to God to know what is necessary [in all things]

I can see that mass drowning of people by way of Noah's flood was unneeded. Why not just simultaneously stop all the wicked people's hearts, but for Noah's family?

I can see that God ordering Moses to slaughter children was unnecessary for the same reason.

I am by far not equal to the capabilities attributed to God, and even I can see how unneeded those actions were.

Further, I can see that both actions are vile and reprehensible. My morals are superior to that of God, who sees no problem with either action.

[vy65]

I disagree.

Believing in something without good evidence is inherently a bad thing, because it predisposes you to other acts of blind faith. That is a huge intellectual drawback, don't you think?

Wouldn't a better rule for determining what to believe or trust be "place trust only where it is earned?"

How does religious belief predispose one to other acts of blind faith? I don't see that connection.

I think that there is something to be said for religious faith in an ethical or moral sense -- totally divorced from the ins utionalization of religion. And I don't think it's pointless subjecting that faith the rigors of the scientific method. There's something to be said for a little mystery that evades scientific rationalization.

[rjv]

why didn't maher call out the augustinian tradition of theodicy (found in great abundance in catholicism and protestantism)? it's clearly a tradition that advocates just war or utilitarian evil with seemingly endless boundaries. and what of the trumpet of atheistic/nihilistic sponsored terrorism so prominent in europe throughout the 20th century (in both the form of state sponsored and individual terrorism)?

[DarrinS]

why didn't maher call out the augustinian tradition of theodicy (found in great abundance in catholicism and protestantism)? it's clearly a tradition that advocates just war or utilitarian evil with seemingly endless boundaries. and what of the trumpet of atheistic/nihilistic sponsored terrorism so prominent in europe throughout the 20th century (in both the form of state sponsored and individual terrorism)?

Because we live in 2013

[Blake]

There's something to be said for a little mystery that evades scientific rationalization.

Romantically speaking, maybe.

Real world speaking, no.....not a thing to be said.

[Blake]

Because we live in 2013

Islamophobic times we live in

[rjv]

Because we live in 2013

but the tradition of theodicy is still quite prominent in many christian denominations, including those that have a symbiotic relationship with western culture and governments. and the traditions begun at the start of the 20th century are the philosophical predecessors to today's brand of terrorism.

[rjv]

Islamophobic times we live in

agreed

[DarrinS]

Islamophobic times we live in

Willfully ignorant times we live in

[Blake]

Willfully ignorant times we live in

Yeah, I'd say that would describe Islamophobia

[Spurs da champs]

Sharia's law is the pinnacle of violence & hate, tbh.

[RandomGuy]

How does religious belief predispose one to other acts of blind faith? I don't see that connection.

I think that there is something to be said for religious faith in an ethical or moral sense -- totally divorced from the ins utionalization of religion. And I don't think it's pointless subjecting that faith the rigors of the scientific method. There's something to be said for a little mystery that evades scientific rationalization.

Perhaps it would help if we define terms.

Define what you consider "faith".

[vy65]

Faith implies a sense of hope or expectancy in something that cannot be empirically proven -- in fact -- escapes rational proof. It's an a-rational belief in someone or something (didn't want to use the word belief, but that's the best I could do while dropping a deuce ...)

[DarrinS]

The belief that everything spontaneously came from nothing is also a leap of faith.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Faith implies a sense of hope or expectancy in something that cannot be empirically proven -- in fact -- escapes rational proof. It's an a-rational belief in someone or something (didn't want to use the word belief, but that's the best I could do while dropping a deuce ...)

So why is encouraging faith a good thing?

[2centsworth]

Another Bill Maher-esque smackdown. United Kingdom's "The Rumble".

http://bcove.me/j71v3w91

[redzero]

The belief that everything spontaneously came from nothing is also a leap of faith.

Who believes that?

[mingus]

A lot of wisdom in religion and a lot of fundamentalist stuff that is clearly bogus and in some cases dangerous. Some people are wise enough to recognize the latter and some are not. To incriminate an entire teaching and it's followers though is painting with broad brush. Maher does that a lot though so no surprise. Maher is as unfair and intentionally obtuse as anyone on left or right IMO.