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  1. #276
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    Seems like there was an episode of House of Cards where Frank did something similar
    Been watching that with the wife the past few weeks. If any of that is anything but complete fiction? I'm buying an island.

  2. #277
    俺はまんこが大好きなんだよ baseline bum's Avatar
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    You mean since we ins uted the massive, expansive "War on Poverty"? Don't mean to be too sarcastic, BB, but that kind of makes my point.
    War on poverty? You mean the war on working people with St Ronnie's union busting and Bush 41 / Clinton and their free trade crap?

  3. #278
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    The presidency is so completely unlike running a business that the skills don't even come close to carrying over.

    Worse, Trumps arrogance and posturing would make him enemies in both parties, and simply create another running feud between the executive and legislative branch, making him by definition ineffectual, even more so than Obama has been.

    Running a business as a CEO that can unilaterally implement policies without dealing with a legislative body doesn't make you magically better. Obama for all the hullabaloo about the executive orders tried that, and any informed analysis of those orders was that they were pitifully ineffectual at achieving desired policy goals.

    A president needs congress and vice versa.

    Trump will not get you jobs, and certainly won't do as well as Obama has done so far for that simple reason.
    I think that someone who's written the #2 ranked book in business/entrepeneurship with a le called "The Art of the Deal" and run a multi-billion dollar company will get along with Congress and get jobs better than a community organizer who doesn't even try to get along with Congress but go around them.

    Respectfully, let's just agree to disagree.

  4. #279
    俺はまんこが大好きなんだよ baseline bum's Avatar
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    Liberty should be the most cherished, and protected goal, because once it is lost, it is (almost) never recovered.
    The conservative idea of freedom and liberty is so abstract. How about the freedom a good public transportation system would give working people to find jobs without having to take a car loan and being at the mercy of constantly fluctuating gas prices?

  5. #280
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    The conservative idea of freedom and liberty is so abstract. How about the freedom a good public transportation system would give working people to find jobs without having to take a car loan and being at the mercy of constantly fluctuating gas prices?
    Or the freedom of being able to go to work and take care of your family without having to second guess if you're going to go bankrupt after spending 10 days in a hospital... much more practical and tangible freedoms than hurr, durr thomas jefferson...

  6. #281
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    We'll always be slaves to our needs, so we'll never be free. The closest any of us will come to that is the folks who are so rich that they can meet their needs with little effort. Not gonna happen.

    But yeah, I'm really more concerned with being slaves to corporate America than I am to being slaves to a paternalistic government. I'm not for either, obviously, but I would at least like to know I could get the basics in life without having to be a good bet to companies looking to make money off me.

  7. #282
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    The conservative idea of freedom and liberty is so abstract. How about the freedom a good public transportation system would give working people to find jobs without having to take a car loan and being at the mercy of constantly fluctuating gas prices?
    Or the freedom of being able to go to work and take care of your family without having to second guess if you're going to go bankrupt after spending 10 days in a hospital... much more practical and tangible freedoms than hurr, durr thomas jefferson...
    We'll always be slaves to our needs, so we'll never be free. The closest any of us will come to that is the folks who are so rich that they can meet their needs with little effort. Not gonna happen.

    But yeah, I'm really more concerned with being slaves to corporate America than I am to being slaves to a paternalistic government. I'm not for either, obviously, but I would at least like to know I could get the basics in life without having to be a good bet to companies.
    Wow.

    It seems self evident to me what freedom is. It is the ability to succeed or fail based on ones abilities, opportunities and good fortune. The more of that you trade away for "protection" or "basics in life" (do those include cable TV, smartphones and cars - 'cause just about everybody has those), the less you have, and the less you have to gain. If you fail to recognize that corporate America's big win is centralizing power in Washington, and then grabbing that power as necessary for itself, then you cannot be helped. I live here in the North East - Wall Street and DC are VERY close to each other - express trains run between them. That is no accident. You are puppets for those who you think you are fighting.

  8. #283
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    We'll always be slaves to our needs, so we'll never be free. The closest any of us will come to that is the folks who are so rich that they can meet their needs with little effort. Not gonna happen.
    Or, we can continue to put forth a great deal of effort to more than meet our needs. Why is having to work an indication of not being free? Your definition of freedom includes not having to do anything productive, or of value. Because that is how I read that.

  9. #284
    俺はまんこが大好きなんだよ baseline bum's Avatar
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    So more pie in the sky freedom?

  10. #285
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    So more pie in the sky freedom?
    What is pie in the sky about self-determination?

  11. #286
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    The conservative idea of freedom and liberty is so abstract. How about the freedom a good public transportation system would give working people to find jobs without having to take a car loan and being at the mercy of constantly fluctuating gas prices?
    Why do you think that only government can provide a good transportation system? I would bet money that the private sector could provide that system cheaper, faster and better than the public sector. Miami-Dade County has taxed us an extra 1/2 cent for an inefficient system has gone absolutely nowhere while we continue to pay for years and years to come. They promise and never come through and does that tax roll back? Of course not. I have worked for the government and the waste and duplication is unreal. My husband has been on an interview with the County and they are so behind in technology, it would be funny except that my tax dollars are funding this.

    My idea of freedom is being able to do what I want to do (within the law). That includes the freedom to teach my kids what and how I want (homeschooling) - instead of relying on a decaying public education system that will indoctrinate them with liberal views. I would like to save for my old age instead of relying on a Social Security that looks like it wouldn't be around when I get to retirement age. I KNOW that I can do a better job with that money than the government. More and more taxes take away my freedom to live the way I want, educate my children the way I want and provide for my family.

    These freedoms we enjoy is why everybody wants to come to the US. We take these freedoms for granted and want to turn ourselves into Europe - want to take the power (because that's what money is) out of our hands into the hands of a wasteful, inefficient government for more promises.

    Oh, my husband says he and some other programmers could put up a better Obamacare website for MUCH less than $2.1 BILLION - one that actually has the backend.

  12. #287
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    Or the freedom of being able to go to work and take care of your family without having to second guess if you're going to go bankrupt after spending 10 days in a hospital... much more practical and tangible freedoms than hurr, durr thomas jefferson...
    I have health insurance for that. I pay for it. I am not afraid of going bankrupt. If you cannot afford health insurance, the ACA guarantees to subsidize your premium payments.

  13. #288
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    Wow.

    It seems self evident to me what freedom is. It is the ability to succeed or fail based on ones abilities, opportunities and good fortune. The more of that you trade away for "protection" or "basics in life" (do those include cable TV, smartphones and cars - 'cause just about everybody has those), the less you have, and the less you have to gain. If you fail to recognize that corporate America's big win is centralizing power in Washington, and then grabbing that power as necessary for itself, then you cannot be helped. I live here in the North East - Wall Street and DC are VERY close to each other - express trains run between them. That is no accident. You are puppets for those who you think you are fighting.
    Why not address corporate America's "big win" in centralizing power through Washington and leverage the power of the federal government to serve as a counterbalance to corporate interest so that it is a government of the people, by the people and for the people?

  14. #289
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    Why not address corporate America's "big win" in centralizing power through Washington and leverage the power of the federal government to serve as a counterbalance to corporate interest so that it is a government of the people, by the people and for the people?
    Corporations leveraging the Federal Govt. as a counterbalance against corporate interest? I think I either don't understand what you are saying, or you did not say what you thought you said.

  15. #290
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    Corporations leveraging the Federal Govt. as a counterbalance against corporate interest? I think I either don't understand what you are saying, or you did not say what you thought you said.
    Sorry. I wasn't clear. Take away corporate America's "big win" by preventing them from leveraging the federal government for its own interests. Return the government to the people, allowing them to leverage government size and power to serve as a counterbalance to corporate interests.

  16. #291
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    We'll always be slaves to our needs, so we'll never be free. The closest any of us will come to that is the folks who are so rich that they can meet their needs with little effort. Not gonna happen.

    But yeah, I'm really more concerned with being slaves to corporate America than I am to being slaves to a paternalistic government. I'm not for either, obviously, but I would at least like to know I could get the basics in life without having to be a good bet to companies looking to make money off me.
    I encourage you to use the internet to find something to enhance your ability to provide for your needs. We are a single-income family of 5 - I've home schooled for years now, but I searched out things I could do at home with 3 small children and educated myself in those things. I do things like day-trade and mine bit coins to make extra money. Yes, there are stock winners and losers but the more you know the better and the longer you do it, you get a feel for it. If I had more time, I would tutor neighbor kids. Whatever it takes, search it out. One thing I try to instill in my kids (in order to survive) is GRIT - don't give up - try, try again. Remember MJ, what his high school coach told him and how he responded.

  17. #292
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    Please don't see the above as a recommendation to day-trade. That should be done only with money one can afford to lose - it is very risky.

  18. #293
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    I think that someone who's written the #2 ranked book in business/entrepeneurship with a le called "The Art of the Deal" and run a multi-billion dollar company will get along with Congress and get jobs better than a community organizer who doesn't even try to get along with Congress but go around them.

    Respectfully, let's just agree to disagree.
    A bit on Obama's job creation record.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...nt-presidents/

    Underlying all this is the fact that presidents don't really "create" jobs. What you should be asking yourself is how this is going to happen.

    The economy does that. By your own logic Obama has created millions more jobs than Donald Trump ever has.

    The only jobs a president can actually create are those that are direct government hires.

    About all a president can do is create policies aimed at encouraging private investment that might create jobs. That requires a compliant congress that will pass the policies into law.

    Do you think that Trump will get the next congress to play ball any more than Obama does?






    ... or will he have to go around congress with unilateral executive orders... which is what CEOs generally do.

    I don't find that line of reasoning convincing at all.

  19. #294
    Complete player hitmanyr2k's Avatar
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    I think that someone who's written the #2 ranked book in business/entrepeneurship with a le called "The Art of the Deal" and run a multi-billion dollar company will get along with Congress and get jobs better than a community organizer who doesn't even try to get along with Congress but go around them.

    Respectfully, let's just agree to disagree.
    Running a business doesn't mean you're going be great at making deals with a toxic congress lol. It's like candidates who say because they have governor experience that they're ready to be President. Reagan and Bush had governor experience and both were cluster s when it came to running the country and especially their foreign policy decisions that negatively impacted this country for decades. I haven't seen one thing from Trump that makes me believe he can fix anything in this country. His substance amounts to this...

    "I have a lot of money so trust me, look at my polls, we're going to build a huge wall and make Mexico pay for it, (insert subject) is "tremendous" x 10, (insert subject) is "horrible" x 5, (insert subject) is "terrible" x 5, trust me we're going to win again, believe me I'm going to make it better, random insult on Jeb Bush, so and so is a liar, so and so hasn't attacked me yet so he's a nice guy, did I mention how great we're doing in the polls"

    This is what he's running on, simpleton terms...and he's going to fix the country lol. I think Trump is pulling his latest "Art of the Deal" on clueless rubes right now.

  20. #295
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    A bit on Obama's job creation record.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...nt-presidents/

    Underlying all this is the fact that presidents don't really "create" jobs. What you should be asking yourself is how this is going to happen.

    The economy does that. By your own logic Obama has created millions more jobs than Donald Trump ever has.

    The only jobs a president can actually create are those that are direct government hires.

    About all a president can do is create policies aimed at encouraging private investment that might create jobs. That requires a compliant congress that will pass the policies into law.

    Do you think that Trump will get the next congress to play ball any more than Obama does?






    ... or will he have to go around congress with unilateral executive orders... which is what CEOs generally do.

    I don't find that line of reasoning convincing at all.
    Yes, I think that Trump will get the next congress to play ball more than Obama (who doesn't even try - he just goes around them via EO). And the policies that will bring the jobs are lower taxes to bring back the companies and the trillions parked abroad. See my posts above to see my opinion of government hires.

  21. #296
    俺はまんこが大好きなんだよ baseline bum's Avatar
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    Why do you think that only government can provide a good transportation system? I would bet money that the private sector could provide that system cheaper, faster and better than the public sector. Miami-Dade County has taxed us an extra 1/2 cent for an inefficient system has gone absolutely nowhere while we continue to pay for years and years to come. They promise and never come through and does that tax roll back? Of course not. I have worked for the government and the waste and duplication is unreal. My husband has been on an interview with the County and they are so behind in technology, it would be funny except that my tax dollars are funding this.

    My idea of freedom is being able to do what I want to do (within the law). That includes the freedom to teach my kids what and how I want (homeschooling) - instead of relying on a decaying public education system that will indoctrinate them with liberal views. I would like to save for my old age instead of relying on a Social Security that looks like it wouldn't be around when I get to retirement age. I KNOW that I can do a better job with that money than the government. More and more taxes take away my freedom to live the way I want, educate my children the way I want and provide for my family.

    These freedoms we enjoy is why everybody wants to come to the US. We take these freedoms for granted and want to turn ourselves into Europe - want to take the power (because that's what money is) out of our hands into the hands of a wasteful, inefficient government for more promises.

    Oh, my husband says he and some other programmers could put up a better Obamacare website for MUCH less than $2.1 BILLION - one that actually has the backend.
    Paying taxes takes away your freedom to teach your children?

  22. #297
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    And what type of jobs are being created? Part-time 28 hour jobs. Lesser paying jobs. Look I am well aware of what kind of jobs are out there - my husband just came off his longest period of unemployment - 5 months. That's 5 months of me searching the boards for jobs, and they are much less paid and crappier than the last time he was unemployed.

  23. #298
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    Paying taxes takes away your freedom to teach your children?
    Paying more taxes means less money in my pocket for expenses and saving for retirement - it could mean the difference between me being able to stay home/teaching my kids and having to go out and work.

  24. #299
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Yes, I think that Trump will get the next congress to play ball more than Obama (who doesn't even try - he just goes around them via EO). And the policies that will bring the jobs are lower taxes to bring back the companies and the trillions parked abroad. See my posts above to see my opinion of government hires.
    Obama tried for about 6 years before giving up on Congress. The current GOP dominated Congress has pretty much made it their mission not to do anything that the executive branch wants, for pretty much the sole reason that they are trying not to give him any policy achievements that can be pointed to by the next Democratic candidate for president.

    How exactly will Trump get Congress to play along, and how will that be different that what the current (or even past) president did?

    As for the magic "lower taxes" myth: You can't lower taxes enough to bring back jobs for $10/hr workers to compete with $0.10/hr developing world labor. Those jobs are gone, until you get the rest of the world to begin approaching wage parity with the US.

    You want jobs, increase marginal taxes on the highest incomes, then use that to invest in human capital (education) and physical infrastructure (which can't be outsourced).

  25. #300
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