I don’t think so. If he wasn’t on a rookie contract, I think we could do an extend and trade, but he is on a rookie deal. I think he can only be signed and traded during the FA period starting in July.
Or simply the most obvious reason. He ws tired on a back to back in the 4th . Flight landed 2.30am FYI.
Pop recognized this. subbed hims for rest midway in the 4th and tried to get him back in around the 3min mark. When there was finally a stoppage under 2min left, pop decided to ice him. Game was over by then
THE LAST PLAY OF THE GAME WAS FOR HIM.
People need to stop making excuses for him. He’s nothing beyond a physical package. He’s mentally weak and scared.
Even accepting your version of events, I don't think what you said makes sense. A guy who scores 20 points but isn't able to be the guy at the end of the game is still really valuable. All points count the same. Getting 20 points in the thick of the game is how you end up being in a position to make a critical bucket. Danny Green, for example, was a guy who didn't get many clutch shot attempts. There is a large portion of Spurs fans who consider him a choker even. But he was still a critical member of great teams. Even if Lonnie couldn't do it at all in the playoffs, regular-season games matter too.
Anyway, I don't actually know which play you're referring to, since the Spurs had multiple chances to tie at different points in the game. It would help to be able to look at it to see how much of what you said was just your interpretation. Hopefully, Pop isn't just calling iso plays to end the game. It's extremely lazy to do that, and having a guy who doesn't normally take them do it would be weird. I think the Washington game showed that the Spurs should be more willing to pass in end-of-game situations and not just try to one-on-one their guy. There's no question Lonnie has a much lower threshold for passing than his raw ability should have engendered. Him shooting, especially when he's having a good game, is probably a better option than many passes. But for that reason, he's also the best player on the team at bending a defense and creating an open look. Putting the ball in his hands doesn't necessarily mean him scoring is the top acceptable result.
I think Pop should basically force Lonnie to take as many shots as possible. A lot of his misses are due to him not committing to the shot until the last second. Getting a better ratio of passing to scoring would help both sides, because teams have learned to play him for the pass in those situations. I'm pretty confident that a Lonnie who consistently scores 20 points game in and game out will also pick up five or so assists each outing. Rather than seeing this year as a nail in the coffin, I think it's the first season that we've seen a notable change in his at ude. Last year, he physically got better at a lot of things. This year, he's starting to accept that he needs to be aggressive to make use of that improved physicality. It sucks we're talking about years three and four rather than one and two, but it is what it is. If they can keep Lonnie on a prospect's contract similar to what they signed Collins for, it makes sense to keep him. They still haven't drafted a more talented player, though hopefully that changes this upcoming draft.
What game are you talking about? Can’t be the Heat game.
Everybody with all the psychology blather. Empty rhetoric. Lonnie’s place on the team is shaky because he doesn’t shoot the three well enough to stick at shooting guard, and that’s the only position he could play. He’s barely at 30% now.
In the 56 games Lonnie has played this season there’s only been 1 game where you could say he was hot from 3pt range. That was a 5 for 7 game last Oct 26, four months ago. Except, this last Heat game he went 4 for 6, finally. So, two “hot” shooting games out of 56, and those on only modest volume. Not good enough.
Beyond that, there’s been only three games when he’s shot the 3 well on even low volume. He has two 3 for 5 games, and one 3 for 4, this season. And that’s all. It just isn’t good enough.
He dribbles okay, but nothing special. Same with passing, nothing special. Despite his willingness to pass, and overeagerness to pass, he’s no playmaker. They aren’t playmaking passes, usually, they just amount to giving a teammate the ball.
He’s gotten better on defense, but he’s not a player you’d keep for his defense. His midrange game is okay, but no better than a lot of others. A lot more could be said.
He makes an occasional highlight reel play. But so can 450 other players in the NBA, and many of them can do it a lot more often than he does.
So if he can’t hit 3pt shots at a good percentage, what’s his place on the team? I don’t think he has one.
Ok i stopped watching with 1min left cos i thought game was over and by that time pop did ice Lonnie. My reasoning still stands .
Youd rarher run with the last 10 secs and sum it all up. Thats upto you.
I just don't know how anyone can look at the past 5 games and write this dude off. He's still fairly young, and there's a real chance he can turn the corner and be a very good player in this league. I don't know if people are just angry he's not a super star or what, but dude is definitely someone who the Spurs should be keeping at the moment. This isn't the first stretch like this this season either. Before COVID hit, he was rolling in a very similar fashion. I just don't see any reason to write this guy off. Some of you are convinced the book is written on him and that he's terrible and it doesn't make any sense.
No. Not till free agency. Walker is a very unlikely sign and trade candidate. Very few scenarios where this would make sense for potential suitors.
Rather have Josh Richardson in the bench rotation than Lonnie. He is a more stabilizing presence for Primo. Just focus on the 19 year old instead of the 4th year theoretical player.
I’m confident his good streak will carry on until the end of the season. The team doesn’t have any result pressure apart from Pop’s record and it will be achieved this week. Then it’s all bonus and it will positively work on Walker’s confidence. He’s a keeper and his next season will be good.
^Agree. He has the physical tools, the glimpse of greatness. It’s the mental work. The rest of the season would be telling how hungry Lonnie is on proving his naysayers. It’s a feel good story not new to Spurs, overcoming adversities.
Keep him, but only at a reasonable contract. And unless he turns the corner his role will diminish.
It may be a moot point. This feels like another moment where Dallas or Detroit signs one of our guys in the off-season. Sort of joking.
Spurs gonna lose him for sure. No room with our gluttony of sg's
22 pts in 25 minutes. Lonnie is starting to attack the rim with more confidence.
I'm starting to think Pop just can't figure out how to get the best out of Walker. It's frustrating how often Lonnie gets subbed out when he's playing well just to maintain the rotation chart. A Spurs team trying to win games needs to take full advantage of Walker when he goes nuclear. A Spurs team looking to the future needs to focus on developing him if they're going to play him at all rather than subbing him out, because getting Lonnie in that mode more consistently would be allowing him to take multiple steps forward.
It doesn't help that Walker can easily be phased out if he plays with guys like Murray, Vassell and Johnson. For as much hay as was made about Lonnie being scared or whatever, the Spurs have a few guys who struggle to balance out calling their own numbers versus passing. That gets exacerbated when talking about situational awareness. If Walker is having a hot-shooting night, getting him the ball is probably more productive than running into the teeth of the defense or jacking up a long-two. I don't think the Spurs lack players who want to be the guy in crunch time. I think they lack players who are able to be that guy. Walker's the only guy with the clear talent to get his own good shot whenever he wants, but he has the mentality of a supporting player. Maybe there's no way to change that, but if there is, it's not going to be cutting him off when he's actually looking for his own shot consistently and then sliding him back in quietly when he cold and expecting guys who are used to being the top options are trying to take over.
I'd much rather Lonnie play 12-15 minutes (if not more) straight minutes and not come back in the half than try to stagger him. If he's too tired to come back in, that's what guys like Richardson and Primo are for. My guess, though, is that a guy in the shape Lonnie is in can probably play minutes into the high 30s rather than the mid 20s and would be able to handle that kind of load on nights when he's mentally locked in.
They cleared the deck for him on that bench unit. Giving him no option but to be aggressive. What more can Pop do short of trading DJ.
Literally this. Pop has broken every rule for Lonnie. He doesn’t have to play defense to get minutes, and he doesn’t have to run our offense. He looks over the defense and either has blinders on all the way to the hoop, or passes the ball away up top because he doesn’t have a clear easy lane. The Ugly Game, because it certainly isn’t beautiful.
That's the way a lot of players are playing in this league. Having the green light in some aspect of the game, Lonnie comes of the bench and gives the Spurs a spark offensively. That's his role and he's doing fine actually.
I don't understand some coms.
Last edited by duncan2150; 03-01-2022 at 11:59 AM.
we can only hope he continues this good streak
He’s proving me wrong but his recent play only exacerbates our dilemma at the 2.
It's like you didn't read anything I said. This isn't a matter of Pop leading a horse to water but not being able to make him drink. This is Pop looking at a horse desperately gulping down water and then going, "Uhp-uhp that's enough. We'll come back later", and dragging the horse away. Walker has a habit of scoring the majority of his points in one or two stints where he is aggressive. In a game like last night where Walker scored like 15 points in eight minutes, he should not have been subbed out. He should have stayed in the game until he was too tired. It reminds me of Sean criticizing players for "playing the play" rather than reading the defense and cutting off the play to get the score. Pop was playing his rotation rather than looking at the flow of the game. The point of the rotation is supposed to be to get the most minutes of effective play from the roster. But they basically bypassed on their most effective play just to follow the chart. This is something that isn't just true of Walker, but his burst-scoring nature means it affects him more.
When he comes back to close with Murray, Johnson and usually Vassell, he's no longer the obvious hot hand who the other guys feed. Those guys are much more aggressive in looking for their own shots and basically have to be told to give the ball to a certain player. Walker's temperament lends itself so well to fading in the background that he won't break off plays to get himself a shot very often -- even though of anyone on the team, he can do so most easily. So he ends up rarely touching the ball and passing out when he does while the rest of the guys are trying to make something happen. If instead Walker stayed and those guys came in around him, they'd probably continue to feed him, and he's likely maintain his aggression. Then if he can't play the closing stint of the half, that's fine. The Spurs have plenty of wings who can fill in. , even during the fourth-quarter, Lonnie on the bench in crunch time is apparently desirable to some posters, as he's supposed to be too scared to be trusted or whatever.
With the way Lonnie's playing, he's already raising his value quite a bit. If he's going to be this guy for the rest of the season, the Spurs have no business letting him go. This isn't about him needing chances or whatever. If Walker continues to have flaws that caps his growth from here, that's fine. This guy is already good enough -- he doesn't have to be a star to justify keeping him. But obviously, the goal should be to continue to work on those flaws, just as you would with any prospect. If this is the year he finally gets his offense down, then things like his point-of-attack defense or shot : pass ratio can be things he refines in later seasons. There's nothing to indicate he's at the end of his developmental curve except his age, and there's a decent chance that the Spurs will draft a guy closer to his age than Primo's in June.
Its not only Lonnie pop does this With. He's had weird sub patterns all season that don't reflect the current state of the game and how people are playing and it definitely is maddening at times. Frankly, I think Pop is the GOAT, but he's no where near the level he once was and perhaps its him or perhaps its the lack of good assistants on the bench to fill in the gaps he's always had but there are a lot of game management problems with the way Pop coaches.
Yeah, Pop has had some strange rotations this season. Last night, for instance, I think the game was put out of reach late in the 3rd when we had the unit of Collins, Jones, Richardson, McDermott and Lonnie out there. Lonnie was the only one who was a threat and the others were just awful. By the time the starters came back in, we were down by 13. With the way Ja was playing, that was just too big a deficit.
^Agree on both. And it’s maddening when he pulls people having a hot hand. It’s not news to everyone, even Sean comments on that sometimes. But I think Pop is spreading minutes for everyone also to get their playing time, to develop. I don’t think the strategy is to win per se, but to develop and have other players get their minutes also. Also to rest Lonnie and bring him back to close with the SL, with Murray, Lonnie, Vassell, Keldon, Poeltl to close. So it’s interesting that Pop is reserving Lonnie to close, while allowing others also like Tre, Josh, Primo to see minutes in between.
The issue I have is that all points count the same, so having Walker score well in his minutes is more important than having him play during the end of the game. Tre and the rest can be in there during the minutes Walker would have during the end of the game. We don't know if Walker was done scoring when he was pulled in the second quarter last night or if he would have put in another 10 points had he been allowed to play five more minutes. Not only might he had a 30-point game, but the Spurs might have taken the lead over Memphis. We don't know and I'm not trying to say that definitely would have happened. But from a game-flow perspective, it makes more sense to keep him in him. And you have to think if Walker is going to be developed, getting him more run while he's being assertive is the best option. That's the key from him to go from a 14ppg guy to a 22ppg guy. It should be more important to give him good minutes than to give him closing minutes in that regard as well.
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