Who Believes the Bible Is Literally True?

[Phenomanul]

I think the problem was that when you said "fate" it sounded as if you were telling them they are free to choose between salvation or damnation. That's what got them all worked up. It was a missunderstanding. The problem is although it may seem like "fate" and "destiny" are similar words, in this case they have completely different meanings.

Yeah I've already said, I should have used the other word.... in Spanish, at least, they are really the same word...

Oh well.... people often choose to hear what they like... and toss out everything they don't...

[Phenomanul]

Thought this was a good quote that I should share --

There seem to two kinds of searchers: those who seek to make their ego something other than it is, i.e. holy, happy, unselfish (as though you could make a fish unfish), and those who understand that all such attempts are just gesticulation and play-acting, that there is only one thing that can be done, which is to disidentify themselves with the ego, by realizing its unreality, and by becoming aware of their eternal iden y with pure being. - Fingers Pointing Toward the Moon by Wei Wu Wei

Join the boutons_ clan... It really pisses him off he can't dismiss me as some ignorant, bible-thumping, dimwit....

Hey, if we were all dumb wouldn't it be really easy for you all to be dismissive on those grounds alone... I don't mind being the one to pose the challenge to that notion... Anyhow, this is a discussion board... and I hadn't made any mention of my background until post 1000 or something like that... my scientific background was being questioned (as is usually the case with newbies who haven't been around to read the whole forum)... no ego stroking here Mr. Peabody... it just is what it is...

[DarkReign]

I think the problem was that when you said "fate" it sounded as if you were telling them they are free to choose between salvation or damnation. That's what got them all worked up. It was a missunderstanding. The problem is although it may seem like "fate" and "destiny" are similar words, in this case they have completely different meanings.

Ding! Ding! Ding!

Fate != Destiny

Fate = Negative connotation
Destiny = Postive connotation

"Your fate awaits" = bad thing
"Your destiny awaits" = good thing

[DarkReign]

Thought this was a good quote that I should share --

There seem to two kinds of searchers: those who seek to make their ego something other than it is, i.e. holy, happy, unselfish (as though you could make a fish unfish), and those who understand that all such attempts are just gesticulation and play-acting, that there is only one thing that can be done, which is to disidentify themselves with the ego, by realizing its unreality, and by becoming aware of their eternal iden y with pure being. - Fingers Pointing Toward the Moon by Wei Wu Wei

Great quote, but the if I understand what "...by becoming aware of their eternal iden y with pure being." means.

But oh well, still good. If wellness is an eternal iden y of pure being away, Im hip.

[pussyface]

"Educate me pf, since it's obvious that you're a logical and reasonable person who pursues knowledge perhaps you wouldn't mind giving a logical, reasonable, and knowledgeable explanation on why you believe Bible literalists are Taliban-like" jcche or whatever, that hardcore christian guy
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
People who literally believe the Bible (in spite of all that science/research/logic tells us) are living in the same Dark Ages that the religious fundamentalists in the East live in. It is not a coincidence that these two groups see each other as the Earthly personification of evil; the irony is that both have so much in common.

In my estimation, both groups are EXTREMELY dangerous because they believe that no matter what happens, they have God on their side, actively participating in their coronation.

they believe those on the other side will go to if they don't repent and join their religion because they read this in a book/heard this from a leader.

pat robertson is an American terrorist.

[Spurminator]

I think some of you may be confusing the term "literal" with something else altogether. There's nothing terroristic about believing the universe was created in 7 days.

If you're talking about people who think the Law handed down to the Isrealites by God in the Old Testiment should still hold true today, that's another thing, but apart from being extremely rare in modern Christianity (if not altogether extinct), that's not necessarily a component of a literal belief. I can believe in the Bible literally and still understand the audience and purpose of the Old Testament.

[Mr. Peabody]

Join the boutons_ clan... It really pisses him off he can't dismiss me as some ignorant, bible-thumping, dimwit....

Did you think I was attacking you or something?

Hey, if we were all dumb wouldn't it be really easy for you all to be dismissive on those grounds alone...

Who are you referring to when you say "you all?" And, why am I in the "you all" category?

I don't mind being the one to pose the challenge to that notion...

no ego stroking here Mr. Peabody... it just is what it is...

Who could possibly characterize your completely self-serving "Listen to me. I know what I am talking about"-post as ego stroking?

[Phenomanul]

Did you think I was attacking you or something?


Who could possibly characterize your completely self-serving "Listen to me. I know what I am talking about"-post as ego stroking?

You've done it before.... indirectly or not... don't play me for stupid. Your little Wei Wu Wei quote would otherwise be irrelevant if you had nothing to say by using it.

[Phenomanul]

"Educate me pf, since it's obvious that you're a logical and reasonable person who pursues knowledge perhaps you wouldn't mind giving a logical, reasonable, and knowledgeable explanation on why you believe Bible literalists are Taliban-like" jcche or whatever, that hardcore christian guy
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
People who literally believe the Bible (in spite of all that science/research/logic tells us) are living in the same Dark Ages that the religious fundamentalists in the East live in. It is not a coincidence that these two groups see each other as the Earthly personification of evil; the irony is that both have so much in common.

In my estimation, both groups are EXTREMELY dangerous because they believe that no matter what happens, they have God on their side, actively participating in their coronation.

they believe those on the other side will go to if they don't repent and join their religion because they read this in a book/heard this from a leader.

pat robertson is an American terrorist.

While we may agree on the Pat Robertson issue.... your other view is a little too "Hollywood"... generalizations are dangerous too you know.

[Mr. Peabody]

Great quote, but the if I understand what "...by becoming aware of their eternal iden y with pure being." means.

But oh well, still good. If wellness is an eternal iden y of pure being away, Im hip.

I think it has something to do with extinguishing the "self." It's a Buddhist quote.

Why I introduced a Buddhist quote into the Bible discussion thread, I am not sure.

I just thought it was a good observations about the reasons many people flock to religion. There seems to be this underlying notion of reward.

Would we still adhere to the precepts of religion of there was no reward at the end of it? I doubt there would be many that would, but I could be wrong.

[Phenomanul]

Ding! Ding! Ding!

Fate != Destiny

Fate = Negative connotation
Destiny = Postive connotation

"Your fate awaits" = bad thing
"Your destiny awaits" = good thing

fate:
in Spanish | in French | in Italian
in context | images


Adapted From: WordNet 2.0 Copyright 2003 by Princeton University. All rights reserved.

fate
A noun
1 destiny, fate

an event (or a course of events) that will inevitably happen in the future
Category Tree:
event
¨^happening; occurrence; natural event
¨^destiny, fate
¨^doom; doomsday; day of reckoning; end of the world
¨^predestination
¨^kismet; kismat
¨^karma
¨^inevitable
2 Destiny, Fate
the ultimate agency that predetermines the course of events (often personified as a woman); "we are helpless in the face of Destiny"
Category Tree:
en y
¨^causal agent; cause; causal agency
¨^Destiny, Fate
3 fortune, destiny, fate, luck, lot, cir stances, portion

your overall cir stances or condition in life (including everything that happens to you); "whatever my fortune may be"; "deserved a better fate"; "has a happy lot"; "the luck of the Irish"; "a victim of cir stances"; "success that was her portion"
Category Tree:
state
¨^condition
¨^fortune, destiny, fate, luck, lot, cir stances, portion
¨^failure
¨^misfortune; bad luck; tough luck; ill luck
¨^providence
¨^good fortune; good luck
B verb
1 destine, fate, doom, designate

decree or designate beforehand; "She was destined to become a great pianist"
Category Tree:
express; verbalize; verbalise; utter; give tongue to
¨^state; say; tell
¨^declare
¨^decree
¨^ordain
¨^destine, fate, doom, designate

[Mr. Peabody]

You've done it before.... indirectly or not... don't play me for stupid. Your little Wei Wu Wei quote would otherwise be irrelevant if you had nothing to say by using it.

It was somewhat irrelevant (see my previous post). I actually just read it on Google's Buddhist Thought of the Day and thought it was thought-provoking.

However, even if posted the quote to make a point about this discussion, why is that point necessarily an attack on you? Quit being so damn egotistical.

[DarkReign]

fate:
in Spanish | in French | in Italian
in context | images


Adapted From: WordNet 2.0 Copyright 2003 by Princeton University. All rights reserved.

fate
A noun
1 destiny, fate

an event (or a course of events) that will inevitably happen in the future
Category Tree:
event
¨^happening; occurrence; natural event
¨^destiny, fate
¨^doom; doomsday; day of reckoning; end of the world
¨^predestination
¨^kismet; kismat
¨^karma
¨^inevitable
2 Destiny, Fate
the ultimate agency that predetermines the course of events (often personified as a woman); "we are helpless in the face of Destiny"
Category Tree:
en y
¨^causal agent; cause; causal agency
¨^Destiny, Fate
3 fortune, destiny, fate, luck, lot, cir stances, portion

your overall cir stances or condition in life (including everything that happens to you); "whatever my fortune may be"; "deserved a better fate"; "has a happy lot"; "the luck of the Irish"; "a victim of cir stances"; "success that was her portion"
Category Tree:
state
¨^condition
¨^fortune, destiny, fate, luck, lot, cir stances, portion
¨^failure
¨^misfortune; bad luck; tough luck; ill luck
¨^providence
¨^good fortune; good luck
B verb
1 destine, fate, doom, designate

decree or designate beforehand; "She was destined to become a great pianist"
Category Tree:
express; verbalize; verbalise; utter; give tongue to
¨^state; say; tell
¨^declare
¨^decree
¨^ordain
¨^destine, fate, doom, designate

WTF is that? That isnt Merriam-Webster.com

Main Entry: 1fate
Pronunciation: 'fAt
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French or Latin; Middle French, from Latin fatum, literally, what has been spoken, from neuter of fatus, past participle of fari to speak -- more at BAN
1 : the principle or determining cause or will by which things in general are believed to come to be as they are or events to happen as they do : DESTINY
2 a : an inevitable and often adverse outcome, condition, or end b : DISASTER; especially : DEATH
3 a : final outcome b : the expected result of normal development <prospective fate of embryonic cells>
4 plural, capitalized : the three goddesses who determine the course of human life in classical mythology
synonyms FATE, DESTINY, LOT, PORTION, DOOM mean a predetermined state or end. FATE implies an inevitable and usually an adverse outcome <the fate of the submarine is unknown>. DESTINY implies something foreordained and often suggests a great or noble course or end <the country's destiny to be a model of liberty to the world>. LOT and PORTION imply a distribution by fate or destiny, LOT suggesting blind chance <it was her lot to die childless>, PORTION implying the apportioning of good and evil <remorse was his daily portion>. DOOM distinctly implies a grim or calamitous fate <if the rebellion fails, his doom is certain>.

While technically fate and destiny are synonyms, in everyday speech, they are used as polar opposites in English speaking countries.

I know, I know...English is ed up. But it is what it is.

[Mr. Peabody]

fate:
in Spanish | in French | in Italian
in context | images

Merriam-Webster Online

fate
2 entries found for fate.
To select an entry, click on it.
fate[1,noun]fate[2,transitive verb]

Main Entry: 1fate
Pronunciation: 'fAt
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French or Latin; Middle French, from Latin fatum, literally, what has been spoken, from neuter of fatus, past participle of fari to speak -- more at BAN
1 : the principle or determining cause or will by which things in general are believed to come to be as they are or events to happen as they do : DESTINY
2 a : an inevitable and often adverse outcome, condition, or end b : DISASTER; especially : DEATH3 a : final outcome b : the expected result of normal development <prospective fate of embryonic cells>
4 plural, capitalized : the three goddesses who determine the course of human life in classical mythology

synonyms FATE, DESTINY, LOT, PORTION, DOOM mean a predetermined state or end. FATE implies an inevitable and usually an adverse outcome <the fate of the submarine is unknown>. DESTINY implies something foreordained and often suggests a great or noble course or end <the country's destiny to be a model of liberty to the world>. LOT and PORTION imply a distribution by fate or destiny, LOT suggesting blind chance <it was her lot to die childless>, PORTION implying the apportioning of good and evil <remorse was his daily portion>. DOOM distinctly implies a grim or calamitous fate <if the rebellion fails, his doom is certain>.

[Phenomanul]

I think it has something to do with extinguishing the "self." It's a Buddhist quote.

Why I introduced a Buddhist quote into the Bible discussion thread, I am not sure.

I just thought it was a good observations about the reasons many people flock to religion. There seems to be this underlying notion of reward. .

See... now this can generate discussion....

Would we still adhere to the precepts of religion of there was no reward at the end of it? I doubt there would be many that would, but I could be wrong.

Good question... I've have always felt (my opinion of course) that GOD placed an innate desire within each of us to search for the truth... Jesus once said, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life... no man cometh to the Father except through me"... When that search reaches an end, and we find Christ at the end of our quest many of our questions can be answered even if they aren't.... meaning the purpose of our lives is made clear in GOD's embrace, and that alone is worth the find....

I certainly don't call myself a Christian all for the allure of Heaven.... there are many days, and sometimes weeks can go by, when that word doesn't even cross my mind... GOD's presence is the reward....

[Phenomanul]

Merriam-Webster Online

fate
2 entries found for fate.
To select an entry, click on it.
fate[1,noun]fate[2,transitive verb]

Main Entry: 1fate
Pronunciation: 'fAt
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French or Latin; Middle French, from Latin fatum, literally, what has been spoken, from neuter of fatus, past participle of fari to speak -- more at BAN
1 : the principle or determining cause or will by which things in general are believed to come to be as they are or events to happen as they do : DESTINY
2 a : an inevitable and often adverse outcome, condition, or end b : DISASTER; especially : DEATH3 a : final outcome b : the expected result of normal development <prospective fate of embryonic cells>
4 plural, capitalized : the three goddesses who determine the course of human life in classical mythology

synonyms FATE, DESTINY, LOT, PORTION, DOOM mean a predetermined state or end. FATE implies an inevitable and usually an adverse outcome <the fate of the submarine is unknown>. DESTINY implies something foreordained and often suggests a great or noble course or end <the country's destiny to be a model of liberty to the world>. LOT and PORTION imply a distribution by fate or destiny, LOT suggesting blind chance <it was her lot to die childless>, PORTION implying the apportioning of good and evil <remorse was his daily portion>. DOOM distinctly implies a grim or calamitous fate <if the rebellion fails, his doom is certain>.

I've googled the word and even in our language the words seem to be quite interchangeable....

Many people, including myself, use either word when probably the other would be more appropriate....

See for yourself in this discussion:
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=100195

My amazement was that DarkReign would take immediate offense to the word all while calling me an "egotist", and then telling me to "f*&# my exclusive club".... HE then missed the point I was trying to make; which was... He is free to think however he wishes... I am not here to try and convince him otherwise...

[DarkReign]

While we may agree on the Pat Robertson issue.... your other view is a little to "Hollywood"... generalizations are dangerous too you know.

Whoa whoa whoa....

What makes you think you (as a God-fearing Christian) are so much different than Islamic people?

Regardless of the details of each others bible...

a) You both stand on a high moral ground by which only like-minded indviduals in life join your exclusive club in the after-life.

b) You both need/demand active recruitment from its members.

c) You both despise one another.

d) You both have lead war against one another and others based purely on the religious concept of Holy Land and holy tribute.

e) Both declare themselves to be in the knowledge of God in all actions and decisions.

f) Both religions' history is soaked in the blood of its enemies in its respective attempt to subjugate its territory.

This could seriously go on and on for pages. You arent different...your ancestors just bought "the other" book.

Now, heres the part where you cite your differences (or not).

Its all relative. You two are the reason this world might not see the 3rd millenia (or even 2100 for that matter) whether you are directly responsible or not.

By far, the most sickening aspect of the entire fraud that is religion is the killing in God's name. Hypocritical, holier-than-thou bull is all you people are good for.

The only time I tune in to a zealot is to get the news on how the majority of the sheeple in this country are thinking currently. Because God knows once you fervently believe in a faith, you follow its current leaders just as passionately.

My disdain is immeasureable. Not with you Boa, or Smeagol or anyone else particularly. Its your Church and what it stands for.

I dont give a if youre Catholic, Lutheran, Protestant or wtf-ever-christian-iteration-spinoff-of-whackos, youre Christian.

One step above cult based solely on popularity.

[Mr. Peabody]

My amazement was that DarkReign would take immediate offense to the word all while calling me an "egotist", and then telling me to "f*&# my exclusive club".... HE then missed the point I was trying to make; which was... He is free to think however he wishes... I am not here to try and convince him otherwise...

Well, your use of the term "fate" in that context implied that he was going to burn in or something similar for his beliefs. I can see how he took offense to the term. You probably didn't mean it that way, but there are so many "believers" out there that make those very threats in discussions such as these.

[pussyface]

big ups yourself dark reign.
well said.

i dont know what that guy meant by "hollywood"...i spoke the truth.

there are plenty of reasons to draw comparisons between christian fundamentalists and their muslim counterparts.

[DarkReign]

I've googled the word and even in our language the words seem to be quite interchangeable....

Many people, including myself, use either word when probably the other would be more appropriate....

See for yourself in this discussion:
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=100195

My amazement was that DarkReign would take immediate offense to the word all while calling me an "egotist", and then telling me to "f*&# my exclusive club".... HE then missed the point I was trying to make; which was... He is free to think however he wishes... I am not here to try and convince him otherwise...

Look man, ask anyone here, in any thread the difference between fate and destiny.

I dont care what google or some other word-association website said...in everyday speech, they arent interchangeable. Their conotation is different, more precisely theyre polar opposites. Period.

[Phenomanul]

Well, your use of the term "fate" in that context implied that he was going to burn in or something similar for his beliefs. I can see how he took offense to the term. You probably didn't mean it that way, but there are so many "believers" out there that make those very threats in discussions such as these.

I didn't mean it that way... or I would have spelled it out that way.

[Phenomanul]

Look man, ask anyone here, in any thread the difference between fate and destiny.

I dont care what google or some other word-association website said...in everyday speech, they arent interchangeable. Their conotation is different, more precisely theyre polar opposites. Period.

Already addressed above Mr. Always Perfect Grammar.... I'll be sure to harp on you whenever you make a similar stumble.... actually scratch that, there's no point to holding a grudge... it was a mistake, born from the fact I don't typically speak using the melodramatic terms of "fate" or "destiny" as daily jargon... and like I mentioned in Spanish they are essentially the same word... I think in both languages all the time you know...

[Phenomanul]

Whoa whoa whoa....

What makes you think you (as a God-fearing Christian) are so much different than Islamic people?

Regardless of the details of each others bible...

a) You both stand on a high moral ground by which only like-minded indviduals in life join your exclusive club in the after-life.

b) You both need/demand active recruitment from its members.

c) You both despise one another.

d) You both have lead war against one another and others based purely on the religious concept of Holy Land and holy tribute.

e) Both declare themselves to be in the knowledge of God in all actions and decisions.

f) Both religions' history is soaked in the blood of its enemies in its respective attempt to subjugate its territory.

This could seriously go on and on for pages. You arent different...your ancestors just bought "the other" book.

Now, heres the part where you cite your differences (or not).

Its all relative. You two are the reason this world might not see the 3rd millenia (or even 2100 for that matter) whether you are directly responsible or not.

By far, the most sickening aspect of the entire fraud that is religion is the killing in God's name. Hypocritical, holier-than-thou bull is all you people are good for.

The only time I tune in to a zealot is to get the news on how the majority of the sheeple in this country are thinking currently. Because God knows once you fervently believe in a faith, you follow its current leaders just as passionately.

My disdain is immeasureable. Not with you Boa, or Smeagol or anyone else particularly. Its your Church and what it stands for.

I dont give a if youre Catholic, Lutheran, Protestant or wtf-ever-christian-iteration-spinoff-of-whackos, youre Christian.

One step above cult based solely on popularity.

I'm not even going to address this one.... there is way too much hate and misunderstanding in this post to try and simmer anything down....

[Phenomanul]

big ups yourself dark reign.
well said.

i dont know what that guy meant by "hollywood"...i spoke the truth.

there are plenty of reasons to draw comparisons between christian fundamentalists and their muslim counterparts.

whenever you bring some substance to the table... then we can discuss... all you brought were opinionated allegations...

Others such as DarkReign or scott at least try and use logical statements to make their points... take some pointers from them...

[Mr. Peabody]

I certainly don't call myself a Christian all for the allure of Heaven.... there are many days, and sometimes weeks can go by, when that word doesn't even cross my mind... GOD's presence is the reward....

That's interesting and something I have never heard before.

It does raise the question -- What implications does God's presence have?