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If Gervin played next to Duncan, Spurs would be going for their 5th straight le.
Iverson single-handedly lifted the Sixers into the 2001 NBA Finals, winning the league MVP along the way. He averaged 33 points per game during that playoff run; while he shot 39% from the floor, he also dished out more than 6 assists per game and pulled down almost 5 rebounds per night.
The notion that Manu or Tony were ever that good is beyond ridiculous.
And, by the way, Ray Allen played a fairly significant role in Milwaukee reaching the 2001 Eastern Conference Finals (in 7 ECF games that season, Allen averaged 27.1 ppg and 5.4 apg while shooting almost 47% from the floor; he averaged 25.1 ppg, 6.0 apg, and shot 48% from the floor in the Bucks' playoff run that season)
As I've said before, Manu and Tony are undoubtedly very good players; very good, but not great. The idea that either Manu or Tony would be leading teams on long playoff charges without a superstar like Tim Duncan nearby strikes me as one of the most ridiculous things I've read in this forum.
And, of course, that's another difference between those two and a superstar legend like Ice -- Gervin did, in fact, lead his teams on long playoff runs. His teams played in 3 Conference Finals series between 1979 and 1983. If Tim Duncan wasn't a Spur, I don't think it would be reasonable to think that Parker or Ginobili could have done the same.
Last edited by FromWayDowntown; 02-27-2007 at 04:50 PM.
If Gervin played next to Duncan, Spurs would be going for their 5th straight le.
I can't believe anyone would even consider Tony at the level of any of the all-time great guards . . . yet. He has the potential to get up there, but we will have to wait and see. (Personally, I'm starting to get concerned about him putting too many miles on too early).
As for Manu, as great as some of the stretches of play he has had, he can't even sustain a 35 MPG pace despite getting tons of help from Tony and Tim. To imagine him trying to do what Iverson or Kobe or Gervin did is ridiculous. He wouldn't last much more than half a season carrying that much of a load.
For the record, I do think that Manu Ginobili will ultimately end up enshrined in Springfield (at the Basketball Hall of Fame) because he might have the most impressive resume of combined international and NBA accomplishment we've seen. He's been a Euroleague MVP and champion; an All-Tournament selection at the 2002 and 2006 World Championships and a silver medalist in 2002; an MVP of the Olympic tournament and a gold medalist; an NBA All-Star and a 2-time champion with the opportunity to do more. Given that the Hall enshrines people for accomplishments beyond the NBA, to me, Ginobili is pretty close to being a lock for that honor.
That, however, is very different than saying that he's among the great guards in the history of the NBA.
I also think, in the end, that Parker will have a better overall career in the NBA than Ginobili will have had, and not just because Parker will likely have played more seasons. But, in the crazy world that is basketball today, I don't think Tony Parker is likely to ever be a Hall-of-Fame lock the way that Manu appears to be. I don't know that Parker will ever be a guy who will be among the greatest of the great guards of his era (much less of All-Time). He's a very good player, playing on a great team, and he's experiencing a great deal of success by virtue of those two facts. But, again, I don't see that Parker is the kind of guy who can be "the guy" a team deep into the playoffs, the way that the Iceman did with the Spurs teams that he played on or the way Iverson did in 2001.
You can't say that for sure....my guess is that he'd learn to adjust his play, like every other great guard has done.
Manu played basketball year round for like 4 straight years.
I think Manu is one of the better guards in the league to build a team around...they may not win 60 games every year, but they'd be in the playoffs.
So I just don't agree with that...every time Duncan or DRob played in the Olympics they got injured in the following NBA season....Manu played year round and held up better than most guards would.
I am not 100% thrilled with Pop's resting philosophies, I think he overrests players...like Horry.
Is it a coincidence that Horry and Kerr's best post seasons with the Spurs were the ones they logged the most minutes due to injury?
Did minutes hurt Elie?
It was almost like Pop euthanized David's NBAability at times.
If the are going to be expected to play 40 mins in the playoffs, you need to let them hit that level every once in a while.
IF you want to train for a marathon you have to run the full 26 at some point, you can't just do nothing but run for 10 miles a day and expect to be able to go 26 miles the day of the marathon, at championship level.
Manu's best seasons came when he was playing year around...Pop overrests him sometimes...ditto Parker.
How can you say that if you never saw him playing 35 mpg consistently?
not cause Pop donīt play him 35 mins means that he canīt really play consistently for 35 mins.
This is a guy whoīs been playing Olympics and World Championships tournamets EVERY summer since 2001,while other guys like T-mac and Kobe or whoever were Fishing or just Sexually harassting people.Jeez.
Last edited by ArgSpursFan; 02-27-2007 at 05:43 PM.
Pop plays Tony, Tim, and even Bruce Methuselah Bowen 30+ minutes a night. Why would he not play Manu 30 minutes a night? Is his hate for Manu so strong?
I think Manu is in great condition as of right now(knock on wood)
Pop tries to play Barry + Finley as much as possible, that is why manu doesn't get 30mpg
same reason Pop brings Manu off the bench. Does that mean Manu can't start? Does that mean Pop hates Manu? neither.
he is too afraid that heīll get hurt or too tired.I guess he understimate his strength+he must be too afraid his BEST playoff player donīt get to the playoffs 100 % healthy.
hey dude howcome you haven't answered my post. Don't you think Duncan + Gervin would have more than 3 rings right now if they played together?
I just donīt go by the IFs che,cause IF thatīs the case ,If manu and Tony wouldīve played with Shaq the couldīve won 5.See?thats they wouldīve couldīve that I donīt belive in.I go by the facts
Bingo. And with good reason: because he WILL get too tired. Manu himself has admitted his inseason bouts with fatigue.
If Pop made Manu stay out there 35+ a night the US would be at war with Argentina in about a month.
yes or no. be a man.
no way,as a matter of fact,everybody is pissed in Arg.with Pop because of that.Everybody knows Manu is able to play 35+mpg consistently,he showed it in Italy and every summer playing for the Arg Nat.team.
So...nope,wrong again sugar.
Manu himself repeatedly says he gets fatigued when he plays too many minutes in the NBA.
I guess they would,Iīm not taking no credit away from Ice man,But At the same time,donīt you think Manu wouldīve putted more mpg and ppg and TP wouldīve dished more apg playing for another Of.system like Phill Jacksonīs triangle And playing with Shaq?Now you answer me .
Even Manu hates Manu!
I donīt think he even had a chance to play that many mins since He got to S.A.Only on OT games or Playoffs games.And yes, I recall him saying something about getting tired after a back 2 back with OT.But not repeatedly.
Oh man, there is some nice comedy in this thread. Did ArgScolaFan really post that Manu has had a better Spurs career than George Gervin? And did he also just say that Manu is the best Spur in the playoffs? And that the only reason Manu can't play more than 30 minutes a game in the regular season is Pop?
I just want to know where Scola ranks in the top ten.
hey,At least I didnīt say Ely was traded to be the 3rd.big man in the spurs rosterOh man, there is some nice comedy in this thread. Did ArgScolaFan really post that Manu has had a better Spurs career than George Gervin? And did he also just say that Manu is the best Spur in the playoffs? And that the only reason Manu can't play more than 30 minutes a game in the regular season is Pop?
I just want to know where Scola ranks in the top ten.
Try again later
I just cannot believe anybody would say Parker or Manu > Gervin. , at this point in their careers, Parker+Manu < Gervin. It really is sad that fans who never watched Ice play discredit him like this, and no, watching a couple of video highlights != watching Ice play.
Oh well, in another 10 years, we will be arguing that Ian Mahimni > Robinson.
whottt will be on anti-hypertensives by then, so it should be safe.
Wasn't me, either.hey,At least I didnīt say Ely was traded to be the 3rd.big man in the spurs roster
Try again later
Keep spreading the knowledge
I'm in the locker room after every home game. I've heard him say repeatedly how fatigue he gets. Last year he was getting fatigued all the time. This year he doesn't seem to have that problem.
it wasnīt you?there must be another TIMVP in this board besides you though.Wasn't me, either.
Keep spreading the knowledge
ely>Scola ......yeah right.
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