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That's exactly what I'm saying. Do you know who Andre Brown is?
You think the larger Philly deal is bad for us? We don't play Williams, Bonner is out for at least a couple more weeks and will have the usual trouble working back into the rotation afterwards (see what happened to Rasho in 2005), Finley is not playing well to put it mildly, Butler is not projected to play for us this year either (and is showing no signs of being a "stud" as a project either).
Ollie would take either 2nd or 3ed PG spot, and I think he'd be considerably better than Beno. Compare them on 82 games -
Beno
http://www.82games.com/0607/06SAS3A.HTM
Ollie
http://www.82games.com/0607/06PHI4A.HTM
Statistically, Ollie is a better shot (EFG%), a better passer, a better rebounder, and makes less TO's.
Both Hunter and Smith would make it into our big rotation beside Duncan. In particular, having Hunter and Elson would allow us to have a "fast" big on the floor for 40+ mpg, allowing us to eliminate small ball entirely if we so choose...
Yeah, financially, the spurs pay a penalty this year (Lux tax + no distribution), but 1) It's not my money, and 2) Smith's expiring is big ~ 6.75 million this year, and would take them well under cap for next year (relatively, Bonner and Williams total to ~6.3 million).
How is this a bad trade for the Spurs? They get rid of people they don't use or aren't playing well, and get back people they would use.
That's exactly what I'm saying. Do you know who Andre Brown is?
Yes, rookie forward for the sonics. Still not understanding your reasoning on the trade offer with scola included
It sucks. That's my reasoning. They could pick up a guy that has actually played in the NBA for nothing and could conceivably contribute this season. Your trade does nothing for them this season and probably even less for the future considering the trade package possiblities it ruins for them
I consistently see you put down everyones ideas on how to improve the spurs but rarely see any ideas of your own??Maybe I have missed it in this thread but what logical trade or idea needs to be done for improvements for this year and next for the spurs?
I put down all of my own ideas before I post them.
Najera is 31, a four rebounds and five points a game career bench player. Why would we want to go old and mediocre?
My God, if this is the best we can do there really is noone out there.
Try putting down your put downs and enjoy life a little more.
I enjoy putting down trade ideas.
you are truly a master of put downs, congratulations.
1. It screws up our future cap space.
2. We throw in Scola for no apparent reason.
3. We dont even get a first round pick back for all of that.
If we are going to throw Scola in, I would rather do a deal with Chicago & get back players like Khrypa & Duhon...areas where we need help.
1) Finley and Ollie's contracts match in length and are very close in value. Bonner and William's expiring contracts are exceeded in value by Smith's expiring. Hunter's contract is approximately 1 million per year bigger than Butler's, and he'll be doing something useful on the court. A decent backup center on that contract is a deal. Particularly if locked in for long term over a players most productive years (which it is!). That's not what I would call screwing up our cap space...
2) Scola is in so the deal actually goes through. Remember Philly wants something out of this as well. They don't want to win this season, they are going for ping-pong balls. So they want prospects (Butler and Scola!) whom we aren't using, and they get to save some money on the lux tax.
3) You really believe that other teams are gonna give away first round picks? As it is, we get Philly's 2nd, which will be 31-35. The best we might hope to get from Philly is Dallas's 1st, which is 28-30, and that's a contract that we will be stuck with if he busts. It eats cap-space and is more difficult to convince to stay overseas for a couple of years...
PS. if you think Chicago is going to give out Kryapha and Duhon for Scola during the season, you're wrong. They can always do that deal during summer, without helping out a team they may play in the finals, and possibly gimping their back-up PG spot (without getting themselves a player to fill their post scoring problem).
Thing is, Scola is actually worth Khryapa+Duhon. He's worth well more than Ollie+Hunter.
Is he?
Really, according the Spurs FO, Scola's worth less than $10 million/3 years and a roster spot...
If he never comes to the NBA, he's not worth much!
If you really think that they would agree to this trade with the Bucks 2nd round pick in place of Scola, the Spurs can go ahead and try it, but I wouldn't expect a trade to go through unless the Spurs are willing to cough up something that's an actual asset.
Same thing with the clippers trade. To get Singleton, you have to put something on the board. He's not likely to come for White or Udrih alone.
Sorry..I just don't see how Steven Hunter & Kevin Ollie are going to put us over the top. Hunter is signed for 3 more years after this one & he is not worth $3.5 mil of our cap every year until 2010. And about Chicago sending us Duhon & Khrypa for Scola during the season, you are right..but that goes for just about every other team as well. The Spurs dont really have any assets beyond Barry, EWills contract & Scola, & there are not going to be many, if any, teams that are going to trade us something useful during the season. We are probably going to be going with the team we have right now, hoping that things start "clicking" & if they don't adjustments will be made in the off-season. I know most fans dont want to hear or believe that, but that is just the reality of it.
PAD is right in the fact they would not get much better this year with beno, barry, scola for khrypa and duhon. But, they would not get any worse either and still have the talent to make it as deep as eastern final and get better inside play for next year with scola. People forget how young the bulls and with not a long term obligation to both barry and beno could still save $ after this year.
Okay, so Ariza is untradeable....
Eric Williams + Butler for Arroyo + Pat Garrity + Rights to Fran Vasquez and/or 2007 pick
Spurs get backup PG and potential PF/C of future.
Magic get inside scorer, leverage against losing Darko in the off-season, and clear $4+ cap space to go after Vinsanity this off-season.
EDIT: Or throw out the pick and subs ute JJ Re for Garrity. I know he was their first-rounder this year, but he hasn't really caught on because of injury and is sort of in the coach's doghouse. He'd be a great compliment to Duncan as a spot-up shooter.
Last edited by AFBlue; 01-23-2007 at 08:07 PM.
there are so many proposals about trades with the Bulls and arguments why they should do this trade or that trade, but most forget the big picture:
Bulls are in position for a blockbuster trade.
no matter if they finally do it or not, they just won't damage their chances to land the big one, by doing some minor trades in the first place.
no franchise (no well run franchise) would do this.
so the Bulls will never ever (for example) trade Duhon+Khryapa right now, when toses player might be usefull or necessary pieces, to get a big trade finalized.
so the chance to talk Chicago into a trade right now are non existing IMO, even if this trades would make sense for both teams.
Spurs could have the chance to somehow get into a big trade, if a third or fourth team is sought, maybe via the expiring contracts.
If Chicago finds out, that the big trade doesn't fullfill their plans, or would cost to much, they will think of doing minor trades like the mentioned one.
but this won't be before deadline.
so, if we focus on a Bulls trade, we have to be patient.
Yeah, Bulls won't likely of a small deal now because they are trying to get Gasol.
However, a Gasol trade can be interesting for Spurs. Grizzlies will likely rebuild around their young players, capspace and draft picks. They will try to package Swift, Cardinal and Stoudamire with Gasol to have more capspace.
Cardinal is an overpaid scrub : Sprus should saty away from him.
Swift is dumb but athletic, I don't see him being a good fit (not clever enough to rotate) with Spurs but why not.
Stoudamire can be an interesting case : if Grizz dump him on Bulls, Duhon will be more available and I'm not sure that Grizzlies will be interesting in him over expiring + incentives (Duhon is quite young but he is struggling badly, is a limited player and will eat $3.2M of their capspace next summer).
There is no incentive for Chicago to make a minor trade with Khryapa while the season is in progress, unless they get an inside scorer right away.
And yes, to upthread, Scola is definitely worth more than Ollie+Hunter. Probably the best player in Europe? Absolutely he's worth more than that. Even trading him low would net more than that. Ollie is done and Hunter is overpaid and has plenty of question marks.
yes, that is what I thought about being the third team in a bigger deal. if Gasol ends up in Chicago (and I don't see why not, it looks like a perfect deal for all parts) either the Bulls or the Grizzlies will have an overhang of forewards.
(if Bulls trade Deng, the Grizzlies will have Deng, Gay, Warrick, Miller as SFs, but few real bigs)
if Gordon is part of the package (this is what the Bulls have offered), the Bulls will have to many forewards (they have to many, even right now)
I guess the crucial question will be, if a third team is willing to swallow a bad contract (like the one of Cardinal, but also Swift and Studamire are candidates IMO). if yes, there is a good chance that this team can get their hands on, for example, Warrick.
another point in a trade Grizzlies and Bulls is the guard question. no matter if Gordon is part of the deal or not, the Grizzlies have needs in the backcourt. (can't see them resign Atkins and Jones, when they rebuild) so there might be some interest for Beno. (if yes, it is for sure not excessive)
at 3.2 million (3.4 next season) Ollie is probably even more overpayed than (the in fact overpayed) Hunter.
The Hornets pulled a trade for Steven Hunter last season (two seconds for him straight up) and ended up halting the trade when he failed his physical. Hunter had major knee surgery a couple years ago and teams see him as problematic. A time bomb if you will.
Don't we get the best center from Europe a couple of years ago?Scola is definitely worth more than Ollie+Hunter. Probably the best player in Europe?
Didn't Dallas get the best SG from Europe a couple of years ago?
Didn't Indiana get the best PG from Europe last year?
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