Stoudemire calls Spurs 'dirty' (Bruce & Manu)

[samikeyp]

Any example requires "Internet" do entation (the lowest possible standard of proof)

I agree but to a lot of people here, proof and the truth mean nothing.

[Durruti]

I wear their complaints as a badge of honor.

It seems like it wasn't all that long ago that we had to deal with that annoying label of a 'soft team.'

Now, we're practically the Detroit Pistons of the late 80's.

I can live with it.

How many times does this have to be said?

There is nothing "hard" or "tough" about flopping, grabbing onto people's legs or kicking them in the ankle when they go up for a dunk. "Dirty" does not equal "tough". It means THE OPPOSITE. It means you don't have the STRENGTH to play straight up like real men.

Instead you have to resort to cheap shots when the refs aren't looking, or becoming drama queens when the OTHER team gets physical. What you see in those Raja pictures is the perfect example of a tough player.

Think of it this way: when a kid pokes a tiger in a cage with a stick, is that tough? No, quite the opposite: it's sneaky and cowardly.

What you see in Manu's flopping or Bowen's attempts to injure other players are the epitome of softness. Indeed, these examples only CEMENT your reputation as a soft team.

But unlike in the past, when you could still claim the moral highground even if other fans labeled you soft, you now have the dubious distinction of being both soft and utterly classless, a bunch of cheap-shot scalywags more concerned with suckering the refs than playing solid ball. Your reputation is very quickly becoming one of a dirty, dirty team.

Talk about a fall from grace!

I have nothing against Spurs fans, you guys ARE classy, but you're gonna run the risk of losing that distinction as well if you go around defending the likes of Bowen instead of manning up and admitting his behavior is unacceptable. If I were a Spurs fan I would be more concerned about legacy. How do you want to be remembered? Think about that before you condone Bowen's behavior.

[sprrs]

How many times does this have to be said?

There is nothing "hard" or "tough" about flopping, grabbing onto people's legs or kicking them in the ankle when they go up for a dunk. "Dirty" does not equal "tough". It means THE OPPOSITE. It means you don't have the STRENGTH to play straight up like real men.

Instead you have to resort to cheap shots when the refs aren't looking, or becoming drama queens when the OTHER team gets physical. What you see in those Raja pictures is the perfect example of a tough player.

Think of it this way: when a kid pokes a tiger in a cage with a stick, is that tough? No, quite the opposite: it's sneaky and cowardly.

What you see in Manu's flopping or Bowen's attempts to injure other players are the epitome of softness. Indeed, these examples only CEMENT your reputation as a soft team.

But unlike in the past, when you could still claim the moral highground even if other fans labeled you soft, you now have the dubious distinction of being both soft and utterly classless, a bunch of cheap-shot scalywags more concerned with suckering the refs than playing solid ball. Your reputation is very quickly becoming one of a dirty, dirty team.

Talk about a fall from grace!

I have nothing against Spurs fans, you guys ARE classy, but you're gonna run the risk of losing that distinction as well if you go around defending the likes of Bowen instead of manning up and admitting his behavior is unacceptable. If I were a Spurs fan I would be more concerned about legacy. How do you want to be remembered? Think about that before you condone Bowen's behavior.

Sure as doesn't imply that they're soft.

[samikeyp]

I have nothing against Spurs fans, you guys ARE classy, but you're gonna run the risk of losing that distinction as well if you go around defending the likes of Bowen instead of manning up and admitting his behavior is unacceptable. If I were a Spurs fan I would be more concerned about legacy. How do you want to be remembered? Think about that before you condone Bowen's behavior.

To be fair though...if you are going to generalize an entire fan base due to the actions of one or two players....that is just as ignorant as a Spurs fan thinking their team does nothing bad at all.

Question...why is it when Bell does it, its defense but when Bowen does it, its dirty? You know...Bell does not have a clean rep either.

[Russ]

I have nothing against Spurs fans, you guys ARE classy, but you're gonna run the risk of losing that distinction as well if you go around defending the likes of Bowen instead of manning up and admitting his behavior is unacceptable. If I were a Spurs fan I would be more concerned about legacy. How do you want to be remembered? Think about that before you condone Bowen's behavior.

How many players has Bowen seriously injured? If this were soccer, his plays would be called "professional fouls."

[cherylsteele]

People call Manu lots of things but I have never heard anyone call him a dirty player.

[timvp]

I've called out Bowen for being dirty before. For example, I think he knew what he was doing when Steve Francis landed on his foot.

But I just don't see it in this play. I don't think Bowen would risk his livelihood on something as dumb as a kick to the back of the leg. That doesn't make any sense.

If Bowen's goal is to hurt Amare, it wouldn't be that hard to flop into his microfractured knee. Just wait for any contact while Amare is around and propel yourself into the knee. That's what someone would do if they were trying to hurt Amare ... not step on the back of his shoe or whatever.

I still can't believe that of all the plays in this series, that play is getting the most run. Barbosa -- even though he probably didn't do it on purpose -- undercut Parker in a much more gruesome play. And that was after the hard and cheap foul he gave Duncan in Game 1 when he came over with his elbows out to prevent a dunk. If there is someone being reckless/dirty in this series, it's Barbosa.

--timvp

[mardigan]

How many times does this have to be said?

There is nothing "hard" or "tough" about flopping, grabbing onto people's legs or kicking them in the ankle when they go up for a dunk. "Dirty" does not equal "tough". It means THE OPPOSITE. It means you don't have the STRENGTH to play straight up like real men.

Instead you have to resort to cheap shots when the refs aren't looking, or becoming drama queens when the OTHER team gets physical. What you see in those Raja pictures is the perfect example of a tough player.

Think of it this way: when a kid pokes a tiger in a cage with a stick, is that tough? No, quite the opposite: it's sneaky and cowardly.

What you see in Manu's flopping or Bowen's attempts to injure other players are the epitome of softness. Indeed, these examples only CEMENT your reputation as a soft team.

But unlike in the past, when you could still claim the moral highground even if other fans labeled you soft, you now have the dubious distinction of being both soft and utterly classless, a bunch of cheap-shot scalywags more concerned with suckering the refs than playing solid ball. Your reputation is very quickly becoming one of a dirty, dirty team.

Talk about a fall from grace!

I have nothing against Spurs fans, you guys ARE classy, but you're gonna run the risk of losing that distinction as well if you go around defending the likes of Bowen instead of manning up and admitting his behavior is unacceptable. If I were a Spurs fan I would be more concerned about legacy. How do you want to be remembered? Think about that before you condone Bowen's behavior.

You got to be kidding me. Im sure that the Spurs organization and their fans will be just fine being remembered as champions.

[FromWayDowntown]

I still can't believe that of all the plays in this series, that play is getting the most run. Barbosa -- even though he probably didn't do it on purpose -- undercut Parker in a much more gruesome play. And that was after the hard and cheap foul he gave Duncan in Game 1 when he came over with his elbows out to prevent a dunk. If there is someone being reckless/dirty in this series, it's Barbosa.

--timvp

Honestly, I don't think the questionable plays of Spurs opponents are frequently discussed in the broader media because the Spurs don't make a big deal about those things. They tend to keep their business with the league and nothing more than that. When the Kobe/Manu situation went down back in January or February, Pop was candid about the fact that the club had sent video to the league and had asked for the tape to be reviewed, but I don't recall him ever suggesting that Kobe was dirty or clamoring for a suspension. If I'm wrong, I'd be willing to admit it, but I don't recall anything like that occurring. The point, though, is that dirty play aimed towards the Spurs -- and there's plenty of it -- doesn't get air time because there aren't incessant complaints about it. If it gets air time, it's either because there's nothing else really going on (the Jason Terry incident) or because it's a story independent of anything the Spurs might say (the Kobe-Manu incident).

[FromWayDowntown]

If I were a Spurs fan I would be more concerned about legacy. How do you want to be remembered? Think about that before you condone Bowen's behavior.

Great point -- history has such a bad view of the Bad Boy Pistons.

[samikeyp]

Barbosa -- even though he probably didn't do it on purpose -- undercut Parker in a much more gruesome play.

No no no no no no....but he is a Sun...its "good defense" You know...like that clean defense Bell played on Kobe last year.

Anything the Spurs do is dirty.

[cherylsteele]

Great point -- history has such a bad view of the Bad Boy Pistons.

Damn, you beat me to the punch....so to speak.

[Udrihlooms]

i'm a spurs fan, and yes i admit that Bowen is a very dirty player, while Manu is a very physical player similar to Reggie Miller and Rip Hamilton, but Manu is not dirty. Bowen is.

That play (kicking Amare) was downright malicious (knowing Bowen's history) and dirty. If Raja Bell would kick Timmy in the Achilles, we'd all be screaming for Bell's head. Let's just call a spade a spade. But Amare whines like a toddler, way too much!

[Russ]

Great point -- history has such a bad view of the Bad Boy Pistons.

Rule No. 1 -- winners write the history books.

[sunsbum]

No no no no no no....but he is a Sun...its "good defense" You know...like that clean defense Bell played on Kobe last year.

Anything the Spurs do is dirty.

yea forget the fact that kobe elbowed raja in the face NUMEROUS times before raja had enough.. besides, there was nothing dirty about the takedown... raja just straight up clocked him.. bruce bowen has to resolve to cheapshots like kicking his feet under a jump shooter, sweep kicking and kicking people in the back..

[sunsbum]

But Amare whines like a toddler, way too much!

can you name another time youve heard anything from amare about another player or anything else for that matter?

[samikeyp]

yea forget the fact that kobe elbowed raja in the face NUMEROUS times before raja had enough.. besides, there was nothing dirty about the takedown... raja just straight up clocked him.. bruce bowen has to resolve to cheapshots like kicking his feet under a jump shooter, sweep kicking and kicking people in the back..

A clothesline is not dirty?

A Suns fan earlier mentioned that Bowen's actions were not those of "a man should should just play straight up" Despite the elbows, Raja could have been "a man" and not clotheslined him...but oh I forgot..he was "defending" himself. I forgot that ghetto mentality that has permiated into a lot of the players in the NBA..the whole "yo dog, you can't play defense on me...that's disresepecting me and I gots ta get mine"

[sunsbum]

A clothesline is not dirty?

A Suns fan earlier mentioned that Bowen's actions were not those of "a man should should just play straight up" Despite the elbows, Raja could have been "a man" and not clotheslined him...but oh I forgot..he was "defending" himself. I forgot that ghetto mentality that has permiated into a lot of the players in the NBA..the whole "yo dog, you can't play defense on me...that's disresepecting me and I gots ta get mine"

go play some compe ive sports and come back and tell me you wouldnt have reacted in some way to two elbow shots to the face. if you tell me you wouldnt react id tell you to go grow some balls.

[Marcus Bryant]

[FromWayDowntown]

go play some compe ive sports and come back and tell me you wouldnt have reacted in some way to two elbow shots to the face. if you tell me you wouldnt react id tell you to go grow some balls.

I played offensive line for years, including at a Division 1 college. I took plenty of cheap shots from opponents during my day. But I never took a cheap shot against an opponent. It's complete bull . Nothing -- nothing -- ever justifies a cheap shot like Bell's on Kobe during last year's playoffs.

[samikeyp]

I have played compe ive sports and I have reacted just as you are suggesting. Doesn't mean I was right, I have also retaliated in the best way you should...by winning. I also knew that if someone did that to me...I already had the advantage and used that. Besides, professional athletes are supposed to be above that.

Your response was exactly the at ude I was talking about. More concerned about "gettin my respect" and "provin' im a man and I aint no punk" then you are about winning.

[sunsbum]

there you are, i was wondering when you were going to get on and start padding that awesome ass post count. 300 posts per day? man you better get started.

[mardigan]

go play some compe ive sports and come back and tell me you wouldnt have reacted in some way to two elbow shots to the face. if you tell me you wouldnt react id tell you to go grow some balls.

Rajas a dirty player no matter how many excuses you make for him

[kps0001]

At least the Spurs have a past to talk about. Spurs fans as well as Bulls fans, Laker fans, Detroit fans, Houston fans, Miami Fans and all the other previous champions have earned bragging rights. Thats why there are bumper stickers with the words NBA Champions insert year and team, Thats why banners get hoisted in the air, should those be taken down also because the franchise is living in the past? Thats so stupid. Your team has not earned it and neither have you. Stop being a whiny bitter . Way to go

whiny bitter ? you obviously have no idea what you are talking about since I have pretty much sided with Spurs fans regarding this whole debate of being dirty and have even said Suns fans are complaining too much about the play in question. Go find some of my posts where I am whining and or ing.

I have tried to be civil in my responses but it seems it is easier for you to go on the defensive and call people names. Your statement about the banners as a comparison to me saying Spurs fans live in the past is re ed combined with the personal name calling you seem to want to resort to means you have no credibility in my book. Why don't you actually read and actually try to comprehend posts, most importantly your own, before you go spouting off like an amateur.

My point with the living in past comment was it really doesn't matter about your Spurs championships. Those who keep bringing that up obviously have nothing else to bring to the table. Does is it really make a difference that the Spurs have won championships in the past in this current series? If the same exact personnel were on the floor, maybe.

I actually don't know why I am even wasting my time trying to rationalize with you. Way to represent your team and message board.

[sunsbum]

I have played compe ive sports and I have reacted just as you are suggesting. Doesn't mean I was right, I have also retaliated in the best way you should...by winning. I also knew that if someone did that to me...I already had the advantage and used that. Besides, professional athletes are supposed to be above that.

the point is, raja reacted. bowen is doing that crap for s and giggles and to obviously take players out of the game..

another example is raja punching that kid in the . its not like hes planning to do something like that, its a reaction.. bowen is intentionally trying to hurt someone for no apparent reason.