USA vs Argentina

[monosylab1k]

did I ever metion coach K???

coach K said "we"

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

or you'll what?

I am not saying things were not said. I didn't see or hear Carmelo say that so I will take your word for it. If he did, then yes, that was unneccessary.

Physical play is fine but physicality within the course of the game is one thing and I have no problem with it. Getting physical just because you are getting beat is bush league, which is a problem I have with the NBA but that is another thread for another time.

My point still stands though. The US players are not the only who are talking trash, staring down, or celebrating after good plays, yet they are the only ones getting called out for it. That is a double standard.

If the US team wins, they are arrogant and they "were playing our C team" or "they were supposed to win". If another team wins a game its because of talent, heart and passion. Another double standard.

I have no problem giving respect to the winners. That is what you do in sports. It is a sign of good sportsmanship and win the US got beat in 2002, 2004 and last year, I was one of many here who gave credit where it was due. On those nights the US got beat, the other team was better. But respect goes both ways and it seems that too many people use their anti-US feelings as reasons to rip this basketball team who just just trying to succeed in international compe ion like anyone else. The US style is based on athleticism. So is Argentina's. Both are fun to watch. Neither is better than the other, they are just different. So to riducule one style for the sole reason of the color of that team's uniforms is ignorant. Argies got pissed when some fans here talked about them in 2004 (and rightfully so) so why shouldn't I defend my country's national team for the same reason?

You're missing the point. One thing is to celebrate and another completely different is try to look cool and badass. US played better, deserved to win, end of story. I'm not arguing against the US victory, their style of play or anything like that. What is kind of sily is the posturing, the stares...Do the Spurs make any of those? No, they don't, and if a Spur dared to do something like that, Pop would sit his ass on the bench.

For the sake of your own game, this kids need to watch more tape from Magic or Bird and less hip hop music videos. Specially about on and off the court at udes. Not the entire team...you know who they are...they seem more concerned to look cool or badass for the latest Nike ad than other things.

I also disagree that Argentina's game is based on athleticism, our historic style was fundamentals, but just in the recent years with players becoming top professionals athleticism is starting to be a factor.

[ArgSpursFan]

coach K said "we"

yeah,Bush says also WE,but that doesnt mean all Americans Think the same way

[Switchman]

They should be able to stare down anyone they want. If the arg players don't like it. Keep them from scoring or hipcheck them into the score keeper.

Sounds like you guys are admitting defeat and just coming up with things to knock team usa for.

[samikeyp]

You're missing the point. One thing is to celebrate and another completely different is try to look cool and badass. US played better, deserved to win, end of story. I'm not arguing against the US victory, their style of play or anything like that. What is kind of sily is the posturing, the stares...Do the Spurs make any of those? No, they don't, and if a Spur dared to do something like that, Pop would sit his ass on the bench.

For the sake of your own game, this kids need to watch more tape from Magic or Bird and less hip hop music videos. Specially about on and off the court at udes. Not the entire team...you know who they are...they seem more concerned to look cool or badass for the latest Nike ad than other things.

I also disagree that Argentina's game is based on athleticism, our historic style was fundamentals, but just in the recent years with players becoming top professionals athleticism is starting to be a factor.

No....I see the point, I just don't agree. I do agree that some of the US players have been guilty of it some of the time, but my point was it was not every player nor every time and its not just US players.

I do agree though about watching more Bird and Magic. I think that should be fundamental viewing.

As far as the Argie style of play, I have only watched really since 2002 so that is what I was going on.

[samikeyp]

yeah,Bush says also WE,but that doesnt mean all Americans Think the same way

You think we do.

[manubili]

conclusions from a happy argie:

1. This US Team is the best I've seen in a long time. Too bad Duncan isn't playing as the starting center. That would make a truly new Dream Team.

2. The only argentine player who showed NBA caliber is Scola. Too bad for Delfino. (And bad for the Spurs too).

3. I want to see this US team playing under real preasure. It would be a complete different story playing against some other all-nba teams like Spain, full-argentina, Serbia, etc.

4. I love flashy moves, even those against my NT, but I don't like the y at ude. That's different, some US players seem not to know the difference. Manu or Tony did a lot of flashy moves in the Spurs, but we never saw them trying to humilliate anyone. That's classless. Period.

[freedom&justice]

conclusions from a happy argie:

1. This US Team is the best I've seen in a long time. Too bad Duncan isn't playing as the starting center. That would make a truly new Dream Team.

2. The only argentine player who showed NBA caliber is Scola. Too bad for Delfino. (And bad for the Spurs too).

3. I want to see this US team playing under real preasure. It would be a complete different story playing against some other all-nba teams like Spain, full-argentina, Serbia, etc.

4. I love flashy moves, even those against my NT, but I don't like the y at ude. That's different, some US players seem not to know the difference. Manu or Tony did a lot of flashy moves in the Spurs, but we never saw them trying to humilliate anyone. That's classless. Period.

I agree with number 1. But Tim will never play in FIBA again.

2. Delfino is Delfino. He's really talented, but just so damn inconsistent. I wish him luck with the Raptors.

3. Me too. They're freestyling a bit too much for my tastes right now, but I think they'll be ok. They have a bunch of vets who know how to play in the end game on that team.

4. Flashy moves are the specialty of Melo, Bron and Kobe. That's part of what makes them superstars - it brings excitement and gets people off their seats. Kidd is also an excellent PG for that kind of play. Flashy moves and gestures are normal for them, so I wouldn't read too much into it. They're not really immersed in international play, so they act like they do in the NBA. And it's not everyone. I haven't seen Deron Williams or Chauncey Billups or Tayshaun Prince do that, so... Just my 2 cents.

[hendrix]

I don't have ANY problem with the flashy moves. Argentina has its own set of moves (mainly as a team, not many individual flashy moves, except for Manu, because he can) and it's fun to watch them do that.

And the at ude issue... OK, it makes you hate them a little.
The staring, the hitting on the chest, etc..
But it's because they need to feel they can be atop again. They respect us and so they are happy to beat us. And also it's a dominant male at ude. Or dominant basketball player in this case. As when a dog faces another one.

You can do 3 things in these cases:

1. Disregard, which is the smart thing to do in this case, because it is not A REAL PIMP vs PIMP situation. It's not a clash, just a game. They make millions of dollars more than any of our guys. They have the best chicks and may f*ck some others even if thay don't want to.

2. Compete at that level. BUT... making starings after a layup, or knocking the chest after a failed 3-pointer dont have the same effect.

3. Punch them. Yeah... that is an option too. The complete opposite of number 1. You can't do number 2 and you if feel humilliated and want to do something... start a brawl. Kick Kobe in the gonads, something. That would ban you from playing several international compe ions in some time. And perhaps you can take Kobe and Lebron with you.

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

You can do 3 things in these cases:

1. Disregard, which is the smart thing to do in this case, because it is not A REAL PIMP vs PIMP situation. It's not a clash, just a game. They make millions of dollars more than any of our guys. They have the best chicks and may f*ck some others even if thay don't want to.

2. Compete at that level. BUT... making starings after a layup, or knocking the chest after a failed 3-pointer dont have the same effect.

3. Punch them. Yeah... that is an option too. The complete opposite of number 1. You can't do number 2 and you if feel humilliated and want to do something... start a brawl. Kick Kobe in the gonads, something. That would ban you from playing several international compe ions in some time. And perhaps you can take Kobe and Lebron with you.

I expect a lot of #3 from whoever losses between Argentina or Brazil on Saturday. Hopefully not, but tempers will be sky-high

[E20]

A side question here...
Based on the standings, W/L, etc. it appears to me that the U.S. and Argentina will both finish first and second in the tournment, even if they lose their games tomorrow. Am I correct, or can someone clear this up for me?

I didn't seen anybody answer your question, but: Argentina and USA need to win on Saturday to qualify for the Olympics, if they lose they have to play another qualifying tournament.

One comment: The only thing that irked me was Mike Tirico or whoever was commenting aside Bill Walton.

About the whole playes thumping there chest thing, nodding over and over when a basket is made and going OHHHHHHH when a dunk happens. Well that is what USA ball is today. It's more about show and flare, it annoy's people, but you gotta live with it. That's another reason I'm a Spurs fan.

I would be suprised if Puerto Rico did NOT do those kind of things, I mean come on........they're sponsered by And1, of course they're gonna pick some things off.

[diego]

conclusions from a happy argie:

1. This US Team is the best I've seen in a long time. Too bad Duncan isn't playing as the starting center. That would make a truly new Dream Team.

2. The only argentine player who showed NBA caliber is Scola. Too bad for Delfino. (And bad for the Spurs too).

3. I want to see this US team playing under real preasure. It would be a complete different story playing against some other all-nba teams like Spain, full-argentina, Serbia, etc.

4. I love flashy moves, even those against my NT, but I don't like the y at ude. That's different, some US players seem not to know the difference. Manu or Tony did a lot of flashy moves in the Spurs, but we never saw them trying to humilliate anyone. That's classless. Period.

Agree, but i think some of the argentine guys are y too- scola for ex. is known to get carried away celebrating. though that isnt necessary the same as humilliation (i didnt actually see the game so i dont know what the fuss is over, aside from the comments here)

samikeyp, i understand what you are getting at with the double standards, and i dont mean to minimize your point, but dont fans, regardless of nationality, do this all the time?? for ex, suns fans whine to no end about bruce and manu, but say nothing about thomas grabbing and bell flopping. lakers fans saw shaq as the MDE, most everyone else saw a foul machine. etc. I remember when PR beat the US in 03, there were people on other boards saying they wanted to kill Arroyo and invade puerto rico for his chest thumping routine. it would be great if we could all be objective but there is a reason we're not, and it has nothing to do with where we were born. we are subjects and we cannot escape subjectivity, we can only try to be objective and most people dont bother, for lack of need. there's a bill hicks joke about evolution in here somewhere but i cant quite remember it.

[mardigan]

Damn, bunch of sour grapes in this thread, wish I had woke up earlierAnd btw, to Argrocketsfan shouting about them not getting to 100, they let off the gass, they didnt want to show the Argys up, they have to much respect for them.
Argrocketsfan is a racist .

[smeagol]

Damn, bunch of sour grapes in this thread, wish I had woke up earlier

No sour grapes on my part.

By the way, did you watch the game?

Do you still think Bonner > Scola? (and avoid the "In the NBA, Bonner has proven more than Scola" , because we are aware of that).

[samikeyp]

samikeyp, i understand what you are getting at with the double standards, and i dont mean to minimize your point, but dont fans, regardless of nationality, do this all the time??

Doesn't make it right and like you said, doesn't mean we can't try.

Well said though.

[mardigan]

the 92 dream team was classy,all the way

these clowns just want the flashes(exept Billups)....

I reapet they are the best team (as individuals)in the world,but Basketball is a team´s game,and needs to be taken seriusly.
Coze when you start facing the real guys that smile your gonna have to hide it where the sun dont shine.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=C8-jiOcv-Vg

[mardigan]

No sour grapes on my part.

By the way, did you watch the game?

Do you still think Bonner > Scola? (and avoid the "In the NBA, Bonner has proven more than Scola" , because we are aware of that).

Yep, still think that (I actually only ever said in the NBA, learn to read)
All Scola showed me was that he cant guard anyone, gets outrebounded by guys half his weight, and can make layups, congrats on the great pf!

[2centsworth]

USA is finally taking the tournament seriously thanks to inpart Argentina. Now the US is pissed and are ready to terrorize the rest of the world. There will be much posterizing, so you lame Argentinians better get used to it.

BTW, RC should be fired. Scola easily a great prospect who should have been given a chance. He will probably come back to haunt the Spurs.

[smeagol]

Yep, still think that (I actually only ever said in the NBA, learn to read)

I know how to read and after you wrote it several times I said to myself:

"Why does he continue to compare a player who played in the NBA against one who never did, emphasizing that the comparison is " 'Who is the better NBA player' ".

Pretty stupid, if you ask me.

All Scola showed me was that he cant guard anyone, gets outrebounded by guys half his weight, and can make layups, congrats on the great pf!

You probably need glasses, then.

[smeagol]

BTW, RC should be fired. Scola easily a great prospect who should have been given a chance. He will probably come back to haunt the Spurs.

You know about basketball [/mardigan]

[mardigan]

I know how to read and after you wrote it several times I said to myself:

"Why does he continue to compare a player who played in the NBA against one who never did, emphasizing that the comparison is " 'Who is the better NBA player' ".

Pretty stupid, if you ask me.




You probably need glasses, then.

Find a post where I said Bonner had more talent than Scola? Go ahead and look, you wont find it.

Scola has shown skill where he plays.
But if he will have those same skills against guys bigger, faster and stronger is yet to be seen

And btw, my whole point was that it doesnt matter how good he has played in this tourney or any other, he still hasnt proven he can play in the NBA yet.
Im not saying he wont be able to, but to act like its a given that he will be able to do the same things in the NBA is stupid

As far as NBA play right now, Scola is no match for Bonner

Well if thats the bar being set for Scola I can totally agree, he wil be a servicable player no doubt. Just getting tired of all these dip s acting like its a given he will be some kind of 18 and 10 guy

Bonner has proved he can play in the NBA, Scola hasnt
Not saying he wont contribute, but no one really knows how good or bad he will be

Again, where did I say Scola didnt have more skill than Bonner?

[mardigan]

You know about basketball [/mardigan]

Coming from you, thats a compliment

[smeagol]

Mardigan, you have said many times that, in the NBA, Bonner > Scola.

Do you reralize that statement is void of any meaning?

It is like saying: "As far as NBA play, in 2002, Manu was no match for Brent Barry"

What the does that mean?

[ChumpDumper]

Scola played well offensively -- Estebanish even -- but as so many Argentinians told me, the game meant nothing to either team, so I can only conclude any individual performance meant nothing as well.

[smeagol]

Coming from you, thats a compliment

I'm simply trying to prove to you that many knowledgeable posters say the Scola trade was a ty one, and that Scola has more potential than Matt Bonner.

, even Sequ knows this!