I'd liken CP3 signing here and Barnes waiving his trade kicker to moves like signing Michael Finley, or Robert Horry or Damon Stoudamire or T-Mac. We've always been able to get those kind of FAs. We've never been able to land the big fish, despite guys claiming they'd love to. The biggest FA we've ever been able to land was LMA, and there was a Texas connection there.
Maybe Wemby will change that, but we've heard all this chatter before. Until it happens, it's all just the same chatter we've always heard.
westbrook being traded to Utah only to be bought out is becoming a tradition
Utah starting to utilize some of that cap space. They need to hold at least ~$15MM open if they plan on renegotiating and extending Lauri to the max. I think this takes them to around $33MM, so I don't think they're going to have any problems there.
I might end up following the Jazz more closely than I really want to, just because I'm fascinated by this team building direction.
if they trade Markkanen instead of renegotiating i wonder if they take Lavine off Chicago for a pick. they cant absorb his entire salary but they wouldnt have to send too much salary back
Let us know if they have one.
Right now the direction seems to be: "aimlessly driving America's interstate system, collecting as many roadside souvenirs as they find interesting, not sure where they are going... maybe they'll know it when the find it?"
I hope not. A healthy, I know don't laugh, Lavine on the Bulls can only help Spurs' pick possibly conveying next yr as a 1st rounder.
Clippers having to give up a pick to rid themselves of Westbrook
yes and no. they are giving Dunn 5/17, more then westbrook was makingClippers having to give up a pick to rid themselves of Westbrook
I mean, Utah would probably still have the better pick depending on the yr so doubt they'd even swap.Clippers having to give up a pick to rid themselves of Westbrook
The way they've kept an excess of cap space open COULD seem to indicate that they want to leave as many teams in the mix as possible for a possible trade for Lauri, Sexton or Clarkson. They accomplish this by leaving the space open to absorb salary far in excess of what they are sending out - so a team already flirting with the 1st or 2nd apron can not only match salary but create the space under the apron(s) they need in order to resign Lauri (doesn't apply as much to Sexton or Clarkson - they each have two years left). I'm sure Utah would happily accept a little extra draft compensation on top of the base deal to absorb some contracts the acquiring team needs to shed.
For us, it could mean that sending Keldon and Collins could be something Utah is amenable to (though at this point I'm fairly confident we're out of the picture).
For whatever reason, it seems like some teams are actually interested in Lavine, so I'm not sure Utah is going to be the right team for him... it kind of dead ends him in a weird place. I'm also thinking that Chicago doesn't really need to dump Lavine in order to tank. It's not like he's going to play that much anyway. It's kind of like having Ben Simmons on your team... just a god awful expensive guy on your team who never plays.
Did a little more reading on some Jazz forums today, and the general consensus seems to be something that us Spurs fans can relate to: frustration that the FO seemingly has yet to pick a direction. It seemed like they were primed to tank for Wemby, but Hardy and Lauri caught them off-guard and pulled them up into treadmill land.
One commenter said what I've essentially been saying: Ainge is more concerned with ing over teams over than he is with building up the Jazz. Another commenter even went as far to say that Ainge is holding the team back from a real rebuild with his desire to squeeze every last drop from a Lauri trade.
There's also some long-lasting s shock among that fan base... the best draft pick they ever had was on Dominique Wilkins, who refused to play for them and got traded for some guys that combined played for 4 seasons and then were out of the league. One of their next highest ever picks was used on Enes Kanter... so the allure of high draft picks doesn't evoke the memories and excitement that we get here in San Antonio with DRob, Sean, Timmy, Wemby and now Castle.
Even Jazz fans seem to agree that sitting pat with Lauri is the least logical move for the Jazz at this point. Apparently fans feel like the team made real efforts to get OG, Mikal, PG13 and Tobias Harris and failed at them all. Without a move like that, then you're stuck in no man's land with Lauri. Might as well get the best deal you can and start the rebuild in earnest.
It was an interesting, and rather bleak, trip into the minds of Jazz fans. The only levity came when a Piston's fan chimed in with "trust me, hard tanking sometimes ain't all that great either". Maybe I'll go down a Pistons rabbit hole next... this is a great way to feel a lot better about what we're doing.
They're kind of victims of never wanting to tank.
The only franchise in the league that never lost 60 games.
In 20 years they had just one season with less than 36 wins up until this one, but they had just 5 seasons with 50+ wins.
One conference finals and just 11/20 made playoffs.
The definition of a treadmill franchise.
Pistons and some other franchises are all the way on the other end of the spectrum. Too much tanking just ruins the culture and it's really hard to bring it back.Maybe I'll go down a Pistons rabbit hole next... this is a great way to feel a lot better about what we're doing.
Yeah, they were really unlucky in the lottery over the past years, but still.
We can feel better about us, but the truth is that we've been in the lottery for 5 straight years, second longest streak behind the Pistons and if we didn't win the jackpot with 14% odds, we'd still be a top3 worst team in the league with at least two more years of tanking ahead of us.
This suggests why good relationships with other GMs and franchises helps. The Spurs have good relationships with Toronto and Miami, off the top of my head, and probably pretty good with NOP. These are franchises we've made trades with lately, and more than once. Miami and San Antonio have strong relationships and we've helped them cut salary. Toronto and the Spurs have made more than one trade.
Another relationship popped back up with the DeRozan trade with Chicago. I've never heard about intimate appreciation between CHI and SAS the way we have Masai or Riley and our FO, but no one really felt they got screwed with the DDR trade to the Bulls. It's what they wanted, it was fair, and no hard feelings.
A good relationship probably depends on not trying to screw the other guy over; you want both parties to come away with something they needed, and that history probably helped the Spurs grease the wheels between Sacramento and Chicago, both of whom got what they wanted - Sacto getting a boost of a player they wanted, Chicago not losing him for nothing. The Spurs got a free Harrison Barnes out of thin air.
That's... not something I think Ainge can engineer. As far as I know, he doesn't have those relationships, and Lacob's recent comments are peculiar for how aggressive they were in pointing out a problem. Ainge has a reputation for trying to strong arm and win every deal, when mutual benefit is what keeps these channels open.
Thanks for reminding me of this - there is definitely some degree of pride in the fact that apparently the Jazz have the best-worst record in league history (meaning, if you ranked all franchise's worst season in history, the Jazz have the best one). Weird thing to be proud of, but when you're Utah Jazz I guess every milestone counts.
Indeed (and it also makes me wonder about the Spurs relationship with other folks where they have more direct connections, like OKC and BKN. We haven't really done business with them, but I would imagine there are good vibes from Presti and Marks). I'd also add MIN to the list of teams we seem to have good relations with, having made draft day trades with them in consecutive years.
In the end, I think it's a stark reminder that there is a difference between winning battles and winning wars. Post-Boston Ainge (and maybe even late-Boston Ainge) is winning battles (individual trades) while not winning the war (building a winning team). The current Boston team has foundations built by Ainge, that come mostly from taking advantage of a Nets team who wanted to go all in with aging stars, but it was Stephens who put all the necessary finishing touches on. Utah Ainge is winning battles, but has nothing to show for it.
There is also a lessen in there for the Spurs. We are also winning battles without yet having made tangible progress towards winning the war, but I feel like we've won battles in the way that *should* better allow us to ultimately win the war. But we've actually yet to turn that corner, so we'll see.
Matt Tynan previously stated that he felt the Spurs were fighting against a "Spurs tax" - basically that having Wemby means that we have to pay extra because teams don't want to help us create a monster they cannot contain. Whether that is true or not, I don't know, but it seems like our FO has done it's part to try and mitigate that through good relationship building.
This has been me, complimenting our FO. Anything is possible.
Ha. The Spurs traded Dan's rights as a "touch" in the DeMarre Carroll trade. Not that he amounted to much, but it's another casualty of that disastrous off-season.
Man i haven’t heard that Dangubich name in a while.
Ziaire seemed too delicate for the the Grit n Grind culture there.
Also, back to Utah and LM, he seems like the White Knight that Utah fans seem to pine for, and the team seeks out, so I have to guess he wants out but isn't saying it? If so, perhaps he should start saying it to get things moving.
I believe LM already told Utah that he wants to be traded and will not sign extension.
On the other hand, even if Lauri wants to stay, Utah would still want to trade him in order to tank hard.
For now, Utah is still pretending that they don't want to trade him. But, pretty soon, then cannot pretend anymore.
It will happen before season starts. August 6th will be very clear and trade talks will get moving again.
Guys
Have you heard Cam Johnson moves?
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