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Da
Good evening Moscow!!!!!
Da
Suck-egg-mule.
"Make sure you're right........."
"Then give RG & Effy a 12 incher-a-piece."
There are some who subscribe to the "whatever it takes" model in which we give Ukraine all the financial and military aid it needs to completely vanquish Russia from Ukraine. I can't imagine what that is going to cost, but don't forget the new G7 framework for security guarantees that is being worked on -- what is being proposed includes a possible Israel style military aid. Basically setting us up for endless amounts of aid in the billions of dollars even after the war is over if this is actually agreed upon.
WAPO: U.S. intelligence says Ukraine will fail to meet offensive’s key goal.
Thwarted by minefields, Ukrainian forces won’t reach the southeastern city of Melitopol, a vital Russian transit hub, according to a U.S. intelligence assessment.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...ive-melitopol/The U.S. intelligence community assesses that Ukraine’s counteroffensive will fail to reach the key southeastern city of Melitopol, people familiar with the classified forecast told The Washington Post, a finding that, should it prove correct, would mean Kyiv won’t fulfill its principal objective of severing Russia’s land bridge to Crimea in this year’s push.
The grim assessment is based on Russia’s brutal proficiency in defending occupied territory through a phalanx of minefields and trenches, and is likely to prompt finger pointing inside Kyiv and Western capitals about why a counteroffensive that saw tens of billions of dollars of Western weapons and military equipment fell short of its goals.
Well, that is “whatever it takes” means, so yes, whatever it takes.
You want the war to wind down. Myself and others want the Russians to lose.
I am familiar with federal spending being in the trillions. You remind me of the people whinging about foreign aid.
This has been in the zeitgeist for over a month. That being said they have been making gains.
I think most Americans want Russia to lose (including myself) but we're not all willing to pay "whatever it takes".
What it has taken to this point is hardly an issue given the denominator. Why are you complaining?
Explain what you mean by "given the denominator". I hope it's not as much of a fallacy as I think it may be.
Most Americans want peace. A small group wants Russia to lose because of their TDS.
Federal expenditures. You are trying to make this a fiscal issue so like with foreign aid I am putting it into perspective.
It was $5.3 trillion last year. We have given Ukraine $110b in ~18 months.
You live under delusion peddled by Russian that Ukraine only fights this war because they get support from west and because they are ordered so by the west (denying Ukrainians their agency and freedom of action). Both of these are blatantly false. The Ukrainians fought back since 2014, and have done so long before they had any support or interest for help from the west. If NATO ended support for Ukraine, this would not end the war, it would only make it more bloody and brutal especially for Ukrainian civilians. Secondly the defense of Ukraine (which cannot be achieved without defeating Russia) has a big support among the Ukrainian population. If Zelensky came out today and ordered his troops to lay down the arms, he would be removed and replaced by Ukrainian people. He's not Putin, Ukraine is a democracy.
So the option is not "keep supporting and war" or "stop supporting and peace", it's "keep supporting and shorter war" or "stop supporting and longer and even bloodier war". You would would have to be a particularly cruel and selfish person to root for the second option.
But even putting aside moral arguments, there are political and economical reasons to support Ukraine in their fight against aggressor:
1. Shorter war is better for everyone, especially for us in the west since we want to live in peace, freedom and prosperity, and war is not good for business and prosperity
2. Make no mistake this is an ideological war. A successful by tyranny against freedom, puts more free countries at risk and that will mean more wars, which is again bad for business. We are already seeing this in Africa with supporters of Russia's a "new world order".
3. Since the war will continue with or without west's support it's better to be waged with west's input, ensuring it does not escalate out of control. Without west's support you would see a more nationalistic and brutal regime in charge of Ukraine, one financed by less savoury methods. No one in Europe wants a failed state led by hardcore nationalists at their border, one Russia is more than enough.
4. Signaling you are willing to finance the war indefinitely with endless resources demoralizes Russia and their supporters and brings them quicker to negotiating table and thus brings us closer to peace.
As for the costs, i will be brief since i don't have time right now:
1. Old stuff costs to maintain, giving it away saves money.
2. New stuff needs to be tested, that saves you money by not buying and investing in something that doesn't work
3. War is bad for business, the quicker the victory the quicker we can get back to business
4. Peace dividend: keeping a uncertain "frozen" conflict or stalemate costs a lot, consider the cost of armies in cold war time, versus after the defeat of USSR (USA spent over 9% of GDP at the height of cold war, now it's less than 4%), or consider the cost for USA in Korea (an unresolved, frozen war). The quicker and more decisive the win against one of the most destabilizing force in the world, the quicker we can cut our defensive spending all over the west.
For democracies nothing will ever be as cheap as victory against Russia, the sooner the better.
And that is all completely ignoring the moral and humanitarian aspect, pure "real politic" and heartless calculation of what is better for us.
So yeah, whatever it takes and Putin.
The returns are not diminishing. Russia's military power is diminishing.
Whatever it takes.
Dasvidaniya
Back-end-of-mule.
Even more significant in my mind is the that the US, Ukraine's main supporter, has leaked this information to the DC newspaper of record. US support for maximalist outcomes seems to be cracking. I bet Zelensky is pissed.
...good, he's nothing more than a Nazi loving .
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