i dont even think keldon's contract was a mistake. that was a spurs team that has just recently traded away dejounte murray, and months earlier, derrick white. they had no talent locked up at all. a team like that should be extending any young guy who is playing at an NBA level... we are just at a point now where we can and should start getting a little more picky
I rather Sochan aggressive on offense than too much deference like Simmons. The guy can score but would rather take the ball after getting under the basket, unlike Castle who will aggressively attack and get fouled, or has arrays of scoring with contact. Sochan needs to have the same at ude.
what are you talking about, this team has struggled to hit the lower limit for cap for years..
There must be a ton of boomers on this thread then, lol. And, no one is saying give everyone their max, no need to be petulant and dramatic. You should assume a baseline understanding of roster construction here.
Setting aside the merits of the metrics— Keldon likely got his deal BECAUSE of of the year 3 play you reference, nevermind that he was helming a team that would produce Spurs first top 10 selection since Duncan that year. And then again the year we landed Wembs etc.
The bigger point — and your Vassell example is an interesting case in point — is that this team has shown time and again that, whether it’s a small city tax, “culture” premium, staying cool with foreign evaluator, or whatever, it PAYS players it sees as part of its future. They’ve tag Sochan as one of those guys, so don’t hold hope of him getting a Kispert extension number everyone seems to think is “reasonable” around here.
Agreed. Also, I always thought it was designed to be traded, but at a minimum MLE value for a solid bench contributor.
Plus, with salaries going up teams need to diversify their contract amounts. It’s like puzzle pieces. You don’t want to be Milwaukee with very contracts to use for matching purposes and an unhappy star. I sure was glad we had the Tre and Collins contracts when the Fox opportunity presented itself.
I didn't read most of the previous page as when I got to the 100M for 5 years and 125M for 5 years, I had to stop and say "No ing way do you pay him that much." He's going to have to learn to shoot first before I even think about that kind of offer.
If he doesn't like it, he can leave. I do like Jeremy a lot as a person, but not for that much as a player. Can't keep tying up cap space on players that aren't worth that amount.
I’m not gonna quote bc it’s a long response. But all you ever do is ad hominem in your argument. Bringing up Castle has nothing (and I mean nothing to do with Sochan. First, Castles contract isn’t up and he isn’t being considered to have an extension bc he’s a rookie. Second, Castle has made 3 times the amount of threes this season than Sochan and that’s with him shooting like 26% in college. So unlike Sochan, Castle has actually shown an ability to improve as a shooter. In fact Castle has made 30 less threes in not even one full season than Sochan has made in 3 whole ing years. So if you were to ask me which one I have faith in to improve, it’s Castle bc he has shown the ability to improve. Plus right now Castle is the better player.
Sochan has made zero improvements offensively that make you want him to be a starter. He cuts to the basket but not often enough where it’s a real threat. He stands in the conger at the 3 point line uncontested for half our offensive system. He’s doesn’t set hard screens or seal off his defender to make it easier for our guards to get to the rim. He makes some pretty good passes in the lane and I suppose that is the one area he did improve in but again it’s not often enough where it really makes a difference. And he just has zero idea of what to do for half the game. It’s frustrating to watch.
And again bringing up that Castle wouldn’t start on other teams (and he would start for a few) has nothing to do with Sochan. You see since it’s Sochan whose contract is up and it’s those other teams that would offer him a contract, him not being a starter on those other teams is actually relevant. I’m sorry you didn’t understand that fact. You see other teams CAN offer Sochan a contract. Other teams CANNOT offer Castle a contract. And since these teams CAN offer Sochan a contract, him not being a starter on those teams limits the amount of money they would offer him. For instance, if Sochan could be a starter on other contenders then they could make him a legitimate offer that you’re talking about like the 20-25 million (and again Castle has nothing to do with Sochans contract so please please please don’t bring him up again). But since Sochan wouldn’t start for them the most reasonable contract offer they would give is the full MLE.
Now if you are to say specific teams are going to give him that deal. Maybe the Wizards or the Nets or the Jazz for instance (?) then I could see that possibility. However the prudent thing to do is to wait it out and then match it if we want to match it. But outright offering Sochan a larger contract when only 3 teams in the league could (not have done so but might do so) is stupid business. I’d rather go the Lakers route and let him test the market instead offering him a contract that nobody else is going to offer. The Lakers have Reeves for $12 million a year. Every team could’ve had Reeves but they didn’t make him an offer. 4 years and 60 million and put the onus on Sochan to find a better deal.
You're the one who brought up "You'd think Holt's money was yours", not me. What's the point of even raising this if we're assuming a baseline understanding of roster construction here? The number of zero's on Jeremy's paycheck is only relevant to me (as it should be anyone serious) insofar as it impacts roster construction.
Ignoring for a moment that there are other ways to accomplish this goal, I'm fine if we want to say that Keldon's deal was to get compensated for being a tank commander and land a high pick. But we're not in that same situation anymore, so the same logic no longer applies and therefor Keldon's deal is wholly irrelevant to Sochan's potential extension.Setting aside the merits of the metrics— Keldon likely got his deal BECAUSE of of the year 3 play you reference, nevermind that he was helming a team that would produce Spurs first top 10 selection since Duncan that year. And then again the year we landed Wembs etc.
I agree that's what this team does... and that's the criticism here. going all the way back to Mills' and Gasol's contracts, this team has made a habit of handing out big deals like they're Halloween candy. Coincidently, we haven't won since we've started this habit.The bigger point — and your Vassell example is an interesting case in point — is that this team has shown time and again that, whether it’s a small city tax, “culture” premium, staying cool with foreign evaluator, or whatever, it PAYS players it sees as part of its future. They’ve tag Sochan as one of those guys, so don’t hold hope of him getting a Kispert extension number everyone seems to think is “reasonable” around here.
Geez man, I had almost forgotten about those. I was so mad when those contracts were announced. I remember I had read the Spurs were going after Iguodala during that off-season or at least had a meeting with him lined up at the start of free agency? I wasn't keen on that either at his age giving him big money (I loved him as a player, but he was getting up there a bit in years then), but man, compared to what Mills and Gasol got, that would have been magic getting Iguodala instead.
I couldn't stand the Mills and Gasol signings and I was saying it back then, I really wonder if those two contracts played a part in Kawhi wanting out. The Spurs signed those guys to ridiculous contracts and also wouldn't pay Jonathon Simmons who I read Kawhi liked. Even if he wasn't a great player, if Kawhi liked him, they should have at least made an effort to resign him. They botched everything every which way during those 2 seasons. It's like, once Tim Duncan retired, they lost all logic.
People overstress about what are really middling contracts. There has never been a case where we weren’t able to easily offload any of them in the normal course of a trade. If they sign Sochan to the dreaded 5/$100M contract, that would be an easily moveable. Keldon’s contract is easily moveable. Devin’s contract is easily moveable. The pearl clutching here is really unnecessary.
The problem is that we aren’t going to move these guys. So moot point. Once we do that then I will concede your point but until then… nope
Patty - traded
Collins - traded
Tre Jones - traded
I’m not sure where this no trade bias you’re showing comes from,but the Spurs have a history of even trading guys they like that may not fit the timeline.
Derrick White - traded
Dejounte Murray -traded
If they no longer fit, PATFO will have no issues trading Vassell, Keldon, or anyone else not in the core three of Wemby, Fox, and Castle.
I mean KJ hasn’t been traded yet. He’s the longest tenured Spur. He isn’t going anywhere for the next couple of years. Vassell would be nice to trade but I doubt we trade him. And then Sochan wouldn’t be traded for at least 3 years. It’s not that we don’t make trades, it’s that we wait too long to trade these guys.
KJ would’ve netted us a FRP. Instead we would be lucky to get a good SRP
Vassell is the same. Although maybe we could fleece the Lakers to give up a FRP for him. He would fit well with Luka and LeBron.
And we wouldn’t try to trade Sochan until well after his trade value has gone down.
My point however is that 26 teams would offer Sochan $14 million MLE at most. 3 in the Wizards, Jazz, and Nets could (not have already done so but might do so) offer him more than this. Maybe they offer him $25 million a year. In which case good luck Sochan and have fun in Utah. But the Spurs shouldn’t just offer him $20 million a year when we don’t know if any other team would offer him that much. And if the Jazz do offer $20 million for Sochan then and only then would we match it and there he gets his market value.
90% of the league has Sochans market at MLE. In my mind I have him the same. It’s on Sochan and his agent to get more money from the other 10% of the league. This is a business and I don’t see any argument to do otherwise
Mills was not traded, left as a free agent
Also Collins and Jones was in no brainer package for Fox after Fox made it clear a path to San Antonio was what he wanted. I doubt they trade for him without knowing he wanted to be in San Antonio.
And Murray and White were the start of shedding players for future draft picks as the Spurs were targeting building throught he draft.
^ I mean you’re making exstatics points for him. The contracts are easily movable when needed etc.
I’d add to that, at this stage of the development game that’s it’s helpful to have a diversity of contract sizes on the roster precisely so they can be move if a deal like Fox arises. You don’t want to be top heavy with only minimum deals to help improve your roster via trade.
See: Bucks, Milwaukee.
Also, when the aprons start coming into effect, many small contracts <> One larger one, because you can’t aggregate for a trade.
90/5 is the 2026 MLE if you add a 5th year, and that 5th year would be at the smallest % of the cap of any of the years. You and I really aren't that far apart on this.
Half right and half wrong about this.
Mid contracts haven't hurt the Spurs because they were a rebuilding team with oodles of cap space and no luxury tax concerns. Once they pay Wemby/Fox/Castle they have to be very careful about handing out big deals to one way role players because of luxury tax concerns.
spurs were paying keldon that kind of money so they could reach the floor... it was a skeleton roster. had gotten rid of derozan, white, murray.
We are just apart in the years tbh. I don’t have the faith in Sochan that others have on this board. I think this is basically what he’s going to be for his career. And bc of that I believe he won’t ever really have a position he can play consistently and will never really fit in. I ofc could be completely wrong on that but to me he started at an F on offense and he is still an F at offense. And part of me blames the Spurs for that but another part of me is starting to believe in the Spurs a bit more and think that maybe they were just desperate in finding something/anything he could do well offensively
I think I'm on your side about this one. Sochan just makes to many boneheaded decisions on the court to make him stand out enough to be a keeper on a contending team that serous about winning and his skillet is pretty replaceable in this league.We are just apart in the years tbh. I don’t have the faith in Sochan that others have on this board. I think this is basically what he’s going to be for his career. And bc of that I believe he won’t ever really have a position he can play consistently and will never really fit in. I ofc could be completely wrong on that but to me he started at an F on offense and he is still an F at offense. And part of me blames the Spurs for that but another part of me is starting to believe in the Spurs a bit more and think that maybe they were just desperate in finding something/anything he could do well offensively
I know he has his fans here but I think it's time to let him go and I think he might even have a decent career on low feeding team.
Did you guys know Jeremy's agency is the same than Morant and Bane?
I could see Memphis making him an offer, he fits their (basic) tactical plays with his slashing/cutting etc
I hope Spurs don't match and let him go, he's just a bad fit for the type of high passing/IQ that Wemby aims and would have a much better career with a more simple type of basketball.
It's fine, there are plenty of other players to develop, no need to retain him just bc of ego/principles
Memphis won’t have any cap space to make an offer in the summer of 2026 once they pay JJJ and Aldama. They’ll likely not even have the full MLE.
Yeah maybe, although I think Aldama will attract a lot of teams and probably will be offered a better role elsewhere. Starting with... the Spurs (I think his inside/out game would be perfect with Wemby)
My point was mostly on Sochan's agent link to Memphis with 2 of their main players, knowing how the game of cards work with agents, it could be interesting if you add MEM's play a lot more adapted to Sochan's style of basketball.
I'd love to swap Sochan and Aldama now that I think about it...
No idea if it's even feasible tho
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