Take a note, Kobe

[RsxPiimp]

I considered making a "Take note, LeBron" thread, but I didn't want to make the worst jinx thread ever if somehow Denver did something miraculous, and I kind of assume a Laker fan is going to make one after the game anyway.


But, it would have gone something like this:

"Hey, LeBron, take note: Close out game on the road against an actually good team."

lol

[KSeal]

I guess Kobe did take notes, 35 points (12-20), 10 assists. THAT'S HOW YOU CLOSE!!!!

[benefactor]

I guess Kobe did take notes, 35 points (12-20), 10 assists. THAT'S HOW YOU CLOSE!!!!

Finally........

[Showtime24 LAKERS]

Hmmmmmmm i wonder how kobe played tonight....

35 points on 12 for 20 shooting
10 Assists
6 Rebounds
9 for 9 from the FT line

Only 1 turnover. now that's impressive!!

[jag]

Lebron > Kobe

[Ghazi]

Bfd

[E20]

lol laker fans

[baseline bum]

Nice game from Kobe tonight. Can't say anything bad about 35/6/10.

[Banzai]

lol laker fans

[Killakobe81]

LeBron doesn't have a lot of help. That's definitely true. But, I think you forget how bad Kobe's teammates were in 2005-06 and 2006-07.

Lamar Odom is a good player. The rest of the supporting cast that were in the regular rotation: Smush Parker, Luke Walton, Kwame Brown, Brian Cook, Chris Mihm, Maurice Evans, Vladimir Radmanovic. Smush, Walton, and Kwame were starters for much of those two years.

In the Western Conference.

At least LeBron has been given consistent three point shooting with his supporting cast. He's also been given tough big men who aren't afraid to bang. And, while they are older and not the same players they used to be, LeBron has teammates that have been all star talents and starters on great teams. Kobe's teammates those two years were neither talented nor experienced nor former winners. And again, in the Western Conference.

What Jamstone said ...seriously baseline you are a bum Lebron is great so is Kobe one guys performance does not detract from the others ...

By thw way hope you came to eat crow tonight loser ...

[KidCongo]

LeBron is getting it done better than he has ever before in the playoffs. He's shooting better than 50% despite his team mates struggles against Orlando. This is something different to last year against Boston and the Spurs where he shot around 35-40% (not exactly sure but I know it was bad).

It's great too see.

[Killakobe81]

Lebron and Kobe have been great so the debate continues ...
All i know is Kobe put on a clinic I hope Lebron does the same in Game 6...
WHat I dont want is cheap Fouls on dhoward ... let the guys decide it on the court ...

[JamStone]

LeBron has for the most part been playing out of his mind in these playoffs.

But as far as his FG shooting goes, I'm with Stan Van Gundy on this one. Anytime LeBron is in the paint or misses a shot, he's going to the free throw line. Now, he's also made some ridiculously difficult shots in this playoff run. But, if we're just talking about his FG%, that's greatly helped by the fact that he's going to the free throw line 14 times a game. Those missed shots when he "gets" the foul, don't count against his FG%.

For everything else, LeBron deserves all the praise he gets. He's been phenomenal. But, I wouldn't give him too much credit for his FG%.

[Killakobe81]

LeBron has for the most part been playing out of his mind in these playoffs.

But as far as his FG shooting goes, I'm with Stan Van Gundy on this one. Anytime LeBron is in the paint or misses a shot, he's going to the free throw line. Now, he's also made some ridiculously difficult shots in this playoff run. But, if we're just talking about his FG%, that's greatly helped by the fact that he's going to the free throw line 14 times a game. Those missed shots when he "gets" the foul, don't count against his FG%.

For everything else, LeBron deserves all the praise he gets. He's been phenomenal. But, I wouldn't give him too much credit for his FG%.

Agree with the above also ...and come on you dont have to be Magic fan to know Howard has gotten screwed on some calls that Lebron got the benefit on.

[baseline bum]

What Jamstone said ...seriously baseline you are a bum Lebron is great so is Kobe one guys performance does not detract from the others ...

By thw way hope you came to eat crow tonight loser ...

Closeout game pressure isn't elimination game pressure. of a performance from Kobe tonight, but it did nothing to refute the fact that he doesn't handle games with his back against the wall well, while James has been excellent in all but one he's ever played.

[Killakobe81]

Closeout game pressure isn't elimination game pressure. of a performance from Kobe tonight, but it did nothing to refute the fact that he doesn't handle games with his back against the wall well, while James has been excellent in all but one he's ever played.

Whatever you want to say so What is Duncan or Mau's elimination stats especially against Lakers & mavs?

You took one stat but ignore what is right in front of you ...Kobe was great eliminating your Spurs, the Nugz and the Jazz thr past few years

He is clutch period ...no doubt.
However in Finals he has been hot and cold ever since his 1st one ...

SO that i do concede his Finals have be en uneven so hopefully he shuts that up so the he cant win without Shaq or he lost his last 2 Finals stuff is refuted ...

I know like many around the NBA forums you guys want to deny his greatness but if he wins the le (again IF) then you wont be able to deny it ...

Some will say well he had Gasol (even though many think his is soft) ot that Lebron didnt have help or Magic didnt have Nelson...Whatever.

He wins you can bury him upside down so all the haters can kiss hiss ass for eternity

[JamStone]

LeBron has played great in two of four elimination games he's been in. And he's 1 and 3 in those games. What good is putting up impressive stats if your team loses? LeBron himself would tell you not much. Take for example game 7 of the Lakers-Rockets series and look at Kobe's stats. They aren't that impressive. But Pau and Bynum had it going and Kobe didn't need to take over and he facilitated and did other things besides scoring and the Lakers won. Then look at game 7 of the 2006 ECF between the Pistons and Cavs and look at LeBdon's stats. They look impressive unless you realize the Pistons were forcing him to beat them by himself and none of his teammates got involved and the Cavs lost. Kobe hasn't been good in many elimination games. But LeBron has lost three of four elimination games. Shouldn't that matter more than him putting up great numbers in losses?

[baseline bum]

Whatever you want to say so What is Duncan or Mau's elimination stats especially against Lakers & mavs?

Manu's irrelevant because no one in his right mind would compare him to Kobe. Let me show Kobe's, then Duncan's:

Since taking over as alpha-dog for the Lakers, this is Kobe's record in elimination games:

1) 2003 WCSF Game 6 (LOSS) : SPURS 110, Lakers 82
20 points, 9-19 FG, 2 rebounds, 6 assists, 1 steal, 0 blocks, 7 turnovers

2) 2004 Finals Game 5 (LOSS): Lakers 87, PISTONS 100
24 points, 7-21 FG, 3 rebounds, 4 assists, 1 steal, 0 blocks, 3 turnovers

3) 2006 WCQF Game 7 (LOSS): Lakers 90, SUNS 121
24 points, 8-16 FG, 4 rebounds, 1 assist, 0 steals, 1 block, 3 turnovers

4) 2007 WCQF Game 5 (LOSS): Lakers 110, SUNS 119
34 points, 13-33 FG, 4 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 steal, 0 blocks, 6 turnovers

5) 2008 Finals Game 6 (LOSS): Lakers 92, CELTICS 131
22 points, 7-22 FG, 3 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 steal, 0 blocks, 4 turnovers

6) 2009 WCSF Game 7 (WIN): Rockets 70, LAKERS 89
14 points, 4-12 FG, 7 rebounds, 5 assists, 3 steals, 2blocks, 1 turnover

AVERAGES:
23.0 PPG
3.83 REBOUNDS
3.00 ASSISTS
39.0% FG%
1.17 STEALS
0.500 BLOCKS
4.00 TURNOVERS

PER: 14.0

I don't usually like to put a lot of stock into the PER, but an elite player doing that horribly on it is unreal. To put it in perspective, here's a list of players average PER this season in the 14.0 +/- 0.25 range:

RANK    PLAYER             PER
====   ===============   =======
112    Chris Duhon        14.25
113    Wilson Chandler    14.18
114    Tyrus Thomas       14.10
115    Tyson Chandler     14.09
116    Al Thornton        14.04
117    Ronnie Brewer      14.02
118    Randy Foye         14.00
118    Spencer Hawes      14.00
120    Andrei Kirilenko   13.85
121    Brendan Haywood    13.83
122    Eric Gordon        13.80
123    Joakim Noah        13.78

1-5 in elimination games as the man and production on par with Ronnie Brewer, Randy Foye, and Spencer Hawes? Clearly, he is not the big game player he's hyped to be. I remember the way Duncan was absolutely crucified by the media for his 14/10/4 and 16/16/2 games, injured, against the Pistons in 05. Yet everyone blames Kobe's teammates when he doesn't come to play. Kobe's a of a player, but he is clearly not the guy you count on with your backs against the wall. Not a single one of those performances in elimination games would be considered a good much less great performance.

Now for Duncan:

Game 5 - 1998 WCSF (LOSS - Spurs 77, JAZZ 87)
14 pts, 11 reb, 0 ast, 2 blk, 0 stl, 3 to, 5-10FG

Game 4 - 2001 WCF (LOSS - Spurs 82, LAKERS 111)
15 pts, 7 reb, 6 ast, 4 blk, 0 stl, 0 to, 5-10FG

Game 5 - 2002 First Round (WIN - Sonics 78, SPURS 101)
23 pts, 9 reb, 3 ast, 7 blk, 0 stl, 2 to, 9-19 FG

Game 5 - 2002 WCSF (LOSS - Spurs 87, LAKERS 93)
35 points, 25 reb, 4 ast, 2 blk, 1 stl, 6 to, 11-23FG

Game 6 - 2004 WCSF (LOSS - Spurs 76, LAKERS 88)
20 points, 11 reb, 2 ast, 1 blk, 2 stl, 2 to, 7-18FG

Game 7 - 2005 Finals (WIN - Pistons 74, SPURS 81)
25 points, 11 reb, 3 ast, 2 blk, 0 stl, 5 tov, 10-27FG

Game 5 - 2006 WCSF (WIN - Mavs 97, SPURS 98)
36 points, 12 reb, 4 ast, 3 blk, 1 stl, 3 tov, 13-19 FG

Game 6 - 2006 WCSF (WIN - SPURS 91, Mavs 86)
24 points, 8 reb, 1 ast, 1 blk, 1 stl, 3 tov, 8-21FG

Game 7 - 2006 WCSF (LOSS - MAVS 119, Spurs 111)
41 points, 15 reb, 6 ast, 3 blk, 1 stl, 3 tov, 12-24FG

Game 6 - 2008 WCSF (WIN - Hornets 80, SPURS 99(
20 points, 15 reb, 6 ast, 2 blk, 0 stl, 1 tov, 7-14 FG

Game 7 - 2008 WCSF (WIN - SPURS 91, Hornets 82)
16 points, 14 reb, 3 ast, 0 blk, 1 stl, 4 tov, 5-17 FG

Game 5 - 2008 WCF (LOSS - Spurs 92, LAKERS 100)
19 points, 15 reb, 10 ast, 1 blk, 0 stl, 2 tov, 7-19FG

Game 5 - 2009 First Round (LOSS - MAVS 106, Sprus 93)
30 points, 8 reb, 1 ast, 2 blk, 1 stl, 0 tov, 14-21 FG

AVERAGES:
24.5 PPG
12.4 REBOUNDS
3.77 ASSISTS
46.7% FG%
0.62 STEALS
2.31 BLOCKS
2.62 TURNOVERS

RECORD: 6-7

PER: 28.3

Here's a list of players average PER this season in the 28.3 +/- 3.00 range: (had to expand the range to find comparisons, as there's no one in the 28.3 +/- 0.25 range)

RANK    PLAYER             PER
====   ===============   =======
1      LeBron James       30.9
2      Chris Paul         30.5
3      Dwayne Wade        29.3
4      Dwight Howard      27.0

Yeah, I'll take Duncan over Kobe in a must-win any time.

[Jacko]

This is a really pathetic thread. Do you honestly not have anything better to do with your time baseline? you are a loser. Get a life kid.

Go outside. some pussy. Smoke some pot. Get drunk.

[baseline bum]

This is a really pathetic thread. Do you honestly not have anything better to do with your time baseline? you are a loser. Get a life kid.

Go outside. some pussy. Smoke some pot. Get drunk.

Go your mother and then bend over for pops.

[jag]

This is a really pathetic thread. Do you honestly not have anything better to do with your time baseline? you are a loser. Get a life kid.

Go outside. some pussy. Smoke some pot. Get drunk.

lakerfan cant stand to see Kobe getting on with facts.

[baseline bum]

Duncan >>> Kobe with his back against the wall. That much is obvious to anyone who watched the games, but the stats were requested and point decisively towards the same conclusion.

[jag]

Lakerfan doesn't believe in facts...they believe in Kobe.

[baseline bum]

No snappy comeback, got Jacko? Did you knock back a few too many and then get knocked back in celebration in West Hollywood tonight?

[baseline bum]

Maybe refute the point instead of getting butthurt, you pussy troll Jacko.