RJ watch is over. He'll re-sign tomorrow

[buttsR4rebounding]

You're trying to equate 'production' to merely point and rebounds, and production is a lot more than that. Bruce Bowen never cracked 8 ppg or 4 rpg in the peak of his career with the Spurs but his production and impact on a nightly basis, especially in our system, was many times over what RJ gave us last season.

I will point you to a great post from HarlemHeat earlier in this thread (here) that goes beyond raw numbers and into advanced stats. Obviously, I'm also a believer in that there's nothing better than actually watching the games.



And the Spurs got swept in the second round. So we're looking to improve production in ALL positions (including RJs), so the next couple of seasons, while Tim is still around, is not like last season.

I don't disagree with the fact that RJ is more effective with more touches (who isn't?). My point is that from an offensive production standpoint and a rebounding standpoint he has exceeded what we have had before. He obviously is not the defender that Bowen was (who is?), but he improved the last part of the season (and, afterall, don't we always say it takes a year to be able to play Pop's defense?). I believe the whole issue is that he made more money than anyone but Tim last year. If he came in for the MLE like most 4th options do everyone would have been fine with his production. THE SPURS KNEW THEY WERE OVERPAYING WHEN THEY TRADED FOR HIM! Now that it looks like he is coming back for a little over the MLE his pay will match his position on this team. If his defense continues to improve some I think he will be a significant part of the Spurs resurgence.

[nickdaquick]

Anything annouced yet?

[Shifty]

The thing I hate about RJ now is he cannot help the Spurs. He can only not hurt them quite as much as last year.

The thing I like about RJ is that he can help the Spurs and moreso than he did last year.

The thing I don't know if I like or hate about RJ now is that he might help or hurt the Spurs more or less so than he did last year.

One of you is going to be wrong by season's end. Please let it be DPG

[SCdac]

Is it a good thing that you can recall this? I do not think so.

Haha I'm a die hard Spurs fan just like everybody else on this site... and best believe those Spurs-Mavs games aren't being erased from my DVR any time soon... I remember Jefferson's better moments, more so than his "invisible" moments, that's for sure... Like when he hit that game-winner back in January, etc... People dog on his defense, and I agree it ain't all that, but it's not like his talents on both ends never helped us win games, or will never in the future help... If he can maintain a consistent level of play (this is key), he's going to be a positive not a negative IMO... (assuming he's not being heavily over-payed, which was part of the problem).

[MaNu4Tres]

So what type of deal is robbery for the Spurs?

You are still misunderstanding me.

It is not just the deal.

With the Spurs refinancing R.J while his value is at an all-time low, the only way this new contract (6-8 mil per for 3/4 years) could become a "steal" is if he can live up to his proven potential that he's proved for many years before coming to SA.


Therefore his play will factor in as well obviously.

This scenario has a chance on happening. (Which I said previously)

Let me repeat, I did not say "R.J's new deal is robbery".

[oligarchy]

You are still misunderstanding me.

It is not just the deal.

With the Spurs refinancing R.J while his value is at an all-time low, the only way this new contract (6-8 mil per for 3/4 years) could become a "steal" is if he can live up to his proven potential that he's proved for many years before coming to SA.


Therefore his play will factor in as well obviously.

This scenario has a chance on happening. (Which I said previously)

Let me repeat, I did not say "R.J's new deal is robbery".

That's a lot of caveats for something that was supposed to be so clear. Perhaps clarifying to begin with -- adding some scope to an otherwise arbitrary statement -- may help alleviate people "misunderstanding" what you are saying.

[MaNu4Tres]

That's a lot of caveats for something was supposed to be so clear. Perhaps clarifying to begin with -- adding some scope to an otherwise arbitrary statement -- may help alleviate people "misunderstanding" what you saying.

I was responding via iphone all morning (which can get on your nerves when leaving thorough responses; because of how easily your fingers can press the wrong letter or the back button) so maybe that is why.

[Obstructed_View]

We don't know what kind of "deal" it could be, and there's no special reason to believe it was a straightforward "we will sign you back no matter what" kind of deal. I think something along the lines of: RJ agrees to opt out (big gift to the Spurs in terms of $$$) to check out the FA market, Spurs check on other possibilities, let's all meet back in a couple of weeks and see what's up, would be totally reasonable.

Sorry to inform you, but if it happened like that, then it's not a "deal" at all. That would be an example of what happens during free agency. A guy opts out, both parties look around, they might settle back on each other, they might not. That isn't at all the way many people were characterizing this, especially those that have talked like it was a foregone conclusion, or those that suggest that RJ's signing with the Spurs is proof of anything.

You mean, like the secret agreements some teams have to trade a player knowing that he will be waived, and sign him up again 30 days later. Not like the Spurs have done that in the past either, of course. Now that we've got that little "there are no secret deals" fantasy out of the way we can go back to the real world of the NBA.

There's no evidence that the Spurs have ever done anything like that with any violation of the rules, and they'd be stupid to risk draft picks over it. But again, if it happened the way you explain above, there's nothing at all wrong with it because there's no pre-arranged deal.

Not at all, because at that point and according to my estimate, the Spurs will be effectively paying him $3-4 million per year, and if you don't think RJ is worth even that then we sure should stop talking.

The Spurs will actually be paying RJ to be on the team for four more years, and they will actually be able to do nothing with his expiring contract this season. Are they paying him more in actual money as well?

We could go around in circles about the money endlessly and it wouldn't really get us anywhere. From a basketball standpoint, it could turn out to be a great keep if he figures out how to play defense or to show up on some sort of consistent basis. He's certainly a good player, and likely far better than any vets that the Spurs were going to be able to get in free agency, but we have to start hoping for him to start fitting in better considering how long he's going to be around. I'll wait until training camp and then become cautiously optimistic.

I really don't know where that comes from either. The Spurs have a history of SF not contributing significantly to raw statistics. We have no idea what's going on behind the scenes, but I'll offer you a likely scenario: Pop knows RJ can be a good defender (fact - this was touted a lot when RJ got traded to the Spurs last year) and we know Pop wants RJ to go back to that defensive speciailst role (fact - appeared very often in Pop's interviews at the time). Now the side effect of that, as we have seen with e.g. Bowen, is that being a defensive specialist instead of a stat machine will suddenly make you ineligible for a variety of things, including: a large contract; consideration from the media; consideration from the large part of fans who think box score = basketball; consideration for achievements; etc. Regardless of the amount of money he was paid ni the short term, I can easily imagine RJ not being that hot about killing his statistical production for a team that hadn't contributed to him on the long term. With a new contract this situation could change drastically.

In my opinion, you're way overthinking this to justify the money going out the door. It's already spent, so we might as well move on. RJ was brought in to be a defensive player last year and it didn't work out very well, but hope springs eternal. Maybe he'll figure it out with his second year and it'll all work out. Smart, hustling defense and 6 points a game is better than what he did last year with 13 points a game. I'd be really happy if his nightly contributions had some bearing on the outcome of the games, and it'll take defense for that to happen.

[benefactor]

You are still misunderstanding me.

It is not just the deal.

With the Spurs refinancing R.J while his value is at an all-time low, the only way this new contract (6-8 mil per for 3/4 years) could become a "steal" is if he can live up to his proven potential that he's proved for many years before coming to SA.


Therefore his play will factor in as well obviously.

This scenario has a chance on happening. (Which I said previously)

Let me repeat, I did not say "R.J's new deal is robbery".

Well so much for that theory.

[Spurtacus]

I expect RJ will fit better with the Spurs in his second season. Assuming we didn't give him 10 mil a year then I like the re-signing.

[Duncan2177]

Sorry to inform you, but if it happened like that, then it's not a "deal" at all. That would be an example of what happens during free agency. A guy opts out, both parties look around, they might settle back on each other, they might not. That isn't at all the way many people were characterizing this, especially those that have talked like it was a foregone conclusion, or those that suggest that RJ's signing with the Spurs is proof of anything.



There's no evidence that the Spurs have ever done anything like that with any violation of the rules, and they'd be stupid to risk draft picks over it. But again, if it happened the way you explain above, there's nothing at all wrong with it because there's no pre-arranged deal.



The Spurs will actually be paying RJ to be on the team for four more years, and they will actually be able to do nothing with his expiring contract this season. Are they paying him more in actual money as well?

We could go around in circles about the money endlessly and it wouldn't really get us anywhere. From a basketball standpoint, it could turn out to be a great keep if he figures out how to play defense or to show up on some sort of consistent basis. He's certainly a good player, and likely far better than any vets that the Spurs were going to be able to get in free agency, but we have to start hoping for him to start fitting in better considering how long he's going to be around. I'll wait until training camp and then become cautiously optimistic.



In my opinion, you're way overthinking this to justify the money going out the door. It's already spent, so we might as well move on. RJ was brought in to be a defensive player last year and it didn't work out very well, but hope springs eternal. Maybe he'll figure it out with his second year and it'll all work out. Smart, hustling defense and 6 points a game is better than what he did last year with 13 points a game. I'd be really happy if his nightly contributions had some bearing on the outcome of the games, and it'll take defense for that to happen.

Since when has Jefferson been known to be a defensive player? Apparently the spurs FO office didn't do there homework on Jefferson before they traded for him if it was defense they wanted they should of traded for Ron Artest last summer.

[Obstructed_View]

Since when has Jefferson been known to be a defensive player? Apparently the spurs FO office didn't do there homework on Jefferson before they traded for him if it was defense they wanted they should of traded for Ron Artest last summer.

You should address this question to the person to whom I was responding. I simply said that I'd be thrilled if his predicitons turn out to be true and Jefferson suddenly turns into a lock down defender.