Suspend MWP for the playoffs...

[GSH]

at the risk of pissing everybody off and bringing down a ton of on my head look at what Harden is doing.

MWP has turned from the baket and is running back down court, beating on his chest. Nothing wrong with that so far.

What does Harden do. He slides over to his left, beginning to block MWP path downcourt and actually gets into MWP body with his body and elevated left arm while still moving his feet.

This was an unnecessary move on the part of Harden who may have been trying to press on defense.

If MWP trips or bumps or flops--without the elbow-- it might have been a close call for a defensive block on Harden.

All that being said, the elbow was a deliberate action and unnecessarily violent reaction to a common body-to-body bumping situation. Given the size, speed and power of these athletes, you can't have someone on the court who cannot control his reaction to the actions of other players.

Given the past history the player and of punishments for especially violent hits to the head--and I'm thinking here of Kermit Washington and Rudy Tomjanovich--MWP should be suspended for the rest of the year.

If Artest had turned and shoved the out of Harden, I would be 100% on his side. But the huge wind-up, and elbow to the head? Nope.

There's an article today, talking about Rudy T's reaction to the incident. He hasn't made a public statement, but he couldn't watch it.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

inexcusable.

BUT Harden was not giving him any space to celebrate.
.

I must have missed the part of the rulebook that talks about allowing space for other players to celebrate a routine play.

[wildbill2u]

I was a Houston fan (behind the Spurs) at the time, but I felt bad for Washington. Most fans only remember the punch which has been shown in slo mo time after time. But if you run the clip at full speed, the argument against Washington gets a little more complex.

That night Washington is several steps back off of the fight that is going on. He is looking at the fight, but is not a participant. He's bouncing around with his fists up, but looks like he's just being ready in case something comes his way.

Then Rudy T comes flying off the bench toward Washington's back with his hands/arms extended (Let's say he was probably going to grab Washington and pull him farther away, but we'll never know what was going through Rudy's mind.)

Washington hears the running footsteps behind him and spins toward Rudy. What he sees as he turns around is another 6-9" guy in an opponent's uniform a few feet away, running at him with his arms up.

Split second decision. Does he wait and see if Rudy is a peacemaker--or is he running toward his back to deck him with a sucker punch? He has to act--no time to think.

Washington reacted by following through with the famous punch. Because Rudy was running right at him at the time, the force of the blow was amplified and his cheekbone was caved in.

All of this happened in a fraction of time but the clip was almost always shown in slo mo, perhaps for dramatic effect, because at live speed the punch wouldn't have shown as well.

I always thought Washington got a bad rap for defending himself on a split second decision that resulted in a serious injury.

[wildbill2u]

I was a Houston fan (behind the Spurs) at the time, but I felt bad for Washington. Most fans only remember the punch which has been shown in slo mo time after time. But if you run the clip at full speed, the argument against Washington gets a little more complex.

That night Washington is several steps back off of the fight that is going on. He is looking at the fight, but is not a participant. He's bouncing around with his fists up, but looks like he's just being ready in case something comes his way.

Then Rudy T comes flying off the bench toward Washington's back with his hands/arms extended (Let's say he was probably going to grab Washington and pull him farther away, but we'll never know what was going through Rudy's mind.)

Washington hears the running footsteps behind him and spins toward Rudy. What he sees as he turns around is another 6-9" guy in an opponent's uniform a few feet away, running at him with his arms up.

Split second decision. Does he wait and see if Rudy is a peacemaker--or is he running toward his back to deck him with a sucker punch? He has to act--no time to think.

Washington reacted by following through with the famous punch. Because Rudy was running right at him at the time, the force of the blow was amplified and his cheekbone was caved in.

All of this happened in a fraction of time but the clip was almost always shown in slo mo, perhaps for dramatic effect, because at live speed the punch wouldn't have shown as well.

I always thought Washington got a bad rap for defending himself on a split second decision that resulted in a serious injury.

[silverblk mystix]

This is what I think.
1) Less than 5 games would probably mean that the PO will turn into a constant fight. A dangerous fight. Anything will be allowed from now on. Just watch the "average" position of the elbows of that bas of Bynum, when he comes down with a rebound, already.
2) Unnecesary, provocatory and gorilla-like "celebrations" (for what? what did he accomplish with that basket EXACTLY? By the way, he should have been called for travelling) should get an immediate T. Straight up.
3) Bryant, the team captain, saying that Harden had no business interrupting Artest' celebrations should get a fine (laughters) AND a suspension (another laughter since it's Sac). In my eyes, this is even worst than Artest's act.
4) Thunder players, as a bunch, are soft and won't go anywhere. Their reactions to seeing Harden on the floor was slow and pathetic, with the exception of Ibaka. Not coincidentally Ibaka.
5) LA has two teams. And Stern has personally given one an All Star for essentially nothing. Not the Lakers.
6) No way LAL comes back yesterday with Harden on the floor. He is a heck of a player and the only one in the NBA that has Ginobili-like potential. I really hope he comes back in good shape.

Good points....

Kobe has also "approved" and even praised these thug tactics by both Bynum and Artest....every time someone talks about Bynums' bush league antics Kobe responds with praise of Bynum and actually says that he understands because Bynum is "compe ive" like Kobe was when he was younger....

In other words....Kobe and the lakers are helping to instigate these type of actions and sooner or later someone will get hurt really badly.

On top of all that...

The lakers and their fans knew what they were getting in Artest when the lakers front office betrayed Ariza for Artest....now they might about a suspension but when they got Artest on the cheap $$ ...they were happy as ....

Well...this is part of the deal that you get with Artest.

[cheguevara]

defending an intentional elbow to the head

[temujin]

Good points....

Kobe has also "approved" and even praised these thug tactics by both Bynum and Artest....every time someone talks about Bynums' bush league antics Kobe responds with praise of Bynum and actually says that he understands because Bynum is "compe ive" like Kobe was when he was younger....

In other words....Kobe and the lakers are helping to instigate these type of actions and sooner or later someone will get hurt really badly.

On top of all that...

The lakers and their fans knew what they were getting in Artest when the lakers front office betrayed Ariza for Artest....now they might about a suspension but when they got Artest on the cheap $$ ...they were happy as ....

Well...this is part of the deal that you get with Artest.

For Kobe it's OK for OTHER TEAMMATES to be exposed.
he doen't have the guts to do that, simple truth.
That's the kind of leader he is.

As for Artest, I watched a game at Detroit only the second or third time he went back after the brawl.
He was been booed constantly. Nothing serious.
He played a great game (scored 30 I think) and after EVERY basket, even FTs, he was provoking the crowd, gestures, smiles, words, waving of hands.
If the guy did that in some of the Euro places, he is still locked in the place, police outside, four years on.

[EVAY]

This is what I think.
1) Less than 5 games would probably mean that the PO will turn into a constant fight. A dangerous fight. Anything will be allowed from now on. Just watch the "average" position of the elbows of that bas of Bynum, when he comes down with a rebound, already.
2) Unnecesary, provocatory and gorilla-like "celebrations" (for what? what did he accomplish with that basket EXACTLY? By the way, he should have been called for travelling) should get an immediate T. Straight up.
3) Bryant, the team captain, saying that Harden had no business interrupting Artest' celebrations should get a fine (laughters) AND a suspension (another laughter since it's Sac). In my eyes, this is even worst than Artest's act.
4) Thunder players, as a bunch, are soft and won't go anywhere. Their reactions to seeing Harden on the floor was slow and pathetic, with the exception of Ibaka. Not coincidentally Ibaka.
5) LA has two teams. And Stern has personally given one an All Star for essentially nothing. Not the Lakers.
6) No way LAL comes back yesterday with Harden on the floor. He is a heck of a player and the only one in the NBA that has Ginobili-like potential. I really hope he comes back in good shape.

Well said. Especially No. 6.

[ambchang]

And you are still stupid. I am not defending his actions whatsoever. He deserves to be suspended. But his actions weren't premediated and Harden has no business going over there and bumping him while he was celebrating his play.

Artest was response was totally wrong, just to let you stupid ass know. But it wasnt premediate, and if Harden didn't purposefully step in front of Artest and bump him, we wouldn't even be talking about this incident.

There is a reason after getting blowout twice by the Spurs, none of the Lakers but a hard foul on the Spurs players, because they play straight up basketball and don't instigate confrontations, which IMO Harden did. Majority of players would at the very least pushed Harden if he stepped in front of them needlessly while celebrating a play.

If I didn't carry that wallet out, I wouldn't have been robbed. It really was, afterall, my fault .... at least partially.

Back to topic:

1) There is no way you would know if the hit was premeditated or not. Any normal person would be able to know that if you swing your elbow above your head, you are going to hit another person of similar size in his head. But then this is MWP we are talking about, so you can throw the normal part out.

2) Harden has every single right to go over to that spot. He could be going for an inbounds, he could be there to slow down MWP and prep the OKC for a fast break opportunity. Even if he was just there to bump MWP, Harden has every right to do it.

3) There is a huge difference between a hard foul and an elbow in the head after a made shot.

[GSH]

Oh, man, I'm really feeling sorry for MWP. He still needs to be suspended, but I really think he wants to be a good guy and a good teammate. And I really do think the name change was his attempt to sort of leave his past behind, in his own uniquely weird way. But he's catching a world of in the Twittersphere over his name, and it's not going to stop any time soon.
http://content.usatoday.com/communit...icious-elbow/1

My kids have asked about people begging for money on streetcorners, who look like they are healthy enough to get a job. And I always tell them that anyone who has sunk far enough to beg for money deserves some sympathy, or at least pity. That's kind of how I feel about MWP. I really don't think he would be like this, if he could help it.

[therealtruth]

I think Artest lost himself in the moment and Harden getting into his celebration made him react.

[EVAY]

Oh, man, I'm really feeling sorry for MWP. He still needs to be suspended, but I really think he wants to be a good guy and a good teammate. And I really do think the name change was his attempt to sort of leave his past behind, in his own uniquely weird way. But he's catching a world of in the Twittersphere over his name, and it's not going to stop any time soon.
http://content.usatoday.com/communit...icious-elbow/1

My kids have asked about people begging for money on streetcorners, who look like they are healthy enough to get a job. And I always tell them that anyone who has sunk far enough to beg for money deserves some sympathy, or at least pity. That's kind of how I feel about MWP. I really don't think he would be like this, if he could help it.

I agree with you completely about people who are down so far they are begging.

I even agree that perhaps Artest couldn't help himself in that moment.

But the point is that if he cannot control (help) himself in every moment when it comes to violence on the court, he needs to be doing something else for a living. He needs not to be on a basketball court. If he cannot help himself when he gets too emotional, he needs to take his calmer moments and realize that he endangers others when his emotions are out of control, and take himself out of situations where his emotions can get out of control.

And if he doesn't take himself out of those situations, then the NBA should do it for him...and for the rest of the league...and for the reputation of the league.

[spursince#99]

no game suspension but that's only because they'll play OKC in the 2nd round and I want him to do it again lol

[dylankerouac]

"I saw it happened and it was a very hard hit," Ibaka said. " ... That's the first I've seen anything like that happen live. I was surprised. I went up to him to ask him why he did that and he wanted to fight me too. I don't know what he was thinking. I have no idea."

Lots of emotion or not, Artest lost his cool and self control at that moment. If Harden ends up being out for an extended amount of time because of the barrage of tests they're going to have to run, and continued concussion like symptoms Artest should be out for the same amount of time if it exceeds 5 games or whatever the leading expectation is for his suspension. Where is the accountability? There should be a punitive penalty associated with his latest loss of self-control.

[vander]

man, from reading this thread, one would start to think that Artest hit him with a tire iron or a baseball bat or something.

didn't know James Harden had so many moms on ST

[DisAsTerBot]

vander with the bads

[Jimcs50]

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/s...es-harden-head


Breaking news:

NBA suspends Oklahoma City's James Harden for 3 games for causing a severe bruise to Los Angeles Laker Meta World Peace's elbow.

David Stern was quoted as saying that, "The league can not tolerate this kind of dangerous behaviour during games, and Mr Harden's complete disregard for World Peace's safety by head butting Meta's elbow will not go without punishment"

[Sean Cagney]

"I saw it happened and it was a very hard hit," Ibaka said. " ... That's the first I've seen anything like that happen live. I was surprised. I went up to him to ask him why he did that and he wanted to fight me too. I don't know what he was thinking. I have no idea."

.

LOL him and thinking should not be used in the same sentence! He doesn't think, dude is a damn nutcase and this proves it.

[pgardn]

1. You are comparing what MWP did to a football hit?

I will spell it out for you clown. Sorry, unintended hatred towards clowns.

The Laker medical staff declaring Harden as fine does not mean he is fine.

Once again for the slow clowns. Colt McCoy was deemed fine BY HIS OWN MEDICAL TEAM. This has nothing to do with the diff. between the two sports, just the ability to assess a players condition without doing any sort of scan. "I asked him if he was ok and he said yes." Excellent...

You compared football to basketball. Good try, but unfortunately, a fail.

[pgardn]

Worst part of the play after I made the diving catch was I rolled into poison ivy. A couple of days later my forearms were seeping fluid from poison ivy blisters really bad. I remember standing in line at a bank and the fluid dripping down my arm and a guy I worked with said I needed to get that fixed.


Had to go get the steroid pills to clear it up. Bandaged the arms up and was back on the field for the next week.

Nooo.

Remember you dropped it? And the seeping fluid was blood from a land shark bite. You pummeled the shark with your arm after he tore it off. 6 games out of the softball beer league for striking an endangered species with a blunt appendage. You are forgetful and I cant imagine why.

The softball beer leagues are a step up in violence compared to say, hockey...

[SA210]

man, from reading this thread, one would start to think that Artest hit him with a tire iron or a baseball bat or something.

didn't know James Harden had so many moms on ST

vander with the bads

[Splits]

Good points....

Kobe has also "approved" and even praised these thug tactics by both Bynum and Artest....every time someone talks about Bynums' bush league antics Kobe responds with praise of Bynum and actually says that he understands because Bynum is "compe ive" like Kobe was when he was younger....

In other words....Kobe and the lakers are helping to instigate these type of actions and sooner or later someone will get hurt really badly.

On top of all that...

The lakers and their fans knew what they were getting in Artest when the lakers front office betrayed Ariza for Artest....now they might about a suspension but when they got Artest on the cheap $$ ...they were happy as ....

Well...this is part of the deal that you get with Artest.

I never thought I would read a post from silverblk which I actually agreed with, from beginning to end. Maybe stick to Laker takes and away from "Popsucker" ones.

[Obstructed_View]

Can't remember if I already posted this elsewhere, apologies if I did, but now's when the Lakers can really benefit from having fully 3/4 of the basketball writers being Laker homers. The excuse parade has been going on most of the day: "It was an accident", "He didn't even see him", "What was Harden doing there", "It was just heat of the moment".

[SA210]

I wouldn't be surprised if he's banned from the league. He's putting other lives at risk when he does that.

One may argue he was out of control, ok, doesn't change the fact he rolled the dice on that guy's life, unconscious or not, I think this is one of those case to "send a message".

Let's hope

[SequSpur]

Who gives a ...

artest..