NBA: Jason Collins comes out of the closet

[HI-FI]

enough with my joking with KillaAchilles, I mean no disrespect.

but thinking about it, wouldn't an all gay team be a great team on paper? first you would have the liberal media on your side, constantly rooting for you. you wouldn't have to worry about lockerroom division over sexuality since they would be on the same team(s). Other teams would be really uncomfortable with their Detroit Bad Boys level of play. , if I was the owner, I would even hire a few nigs who were HIV positive just to really make other teams uncomfortable. Plus if dudes get sick with mysterious cancers that tend to affect certain demographics, you could reserve the amnesty clause for only the troublemakers.

I think the problem with making this work though is having a fanbase that would support an all gay team. Castro District Cruisers would be a formidable team in this league.

[TheCultOfPersonality]

I will present the non NBA response.

So that explains how Jason Collins lasted 12 years in the NBA despite the fact that he doesn't have any basketball skills.

[Homeland Security]

You say that as if that supports your previous argument; it doesn't. It's not like soldiers would drop their arms and shake hands if only they realized religion is all bull . There were plenty of other ideologies to follow, including racial supremacy, the spread of knowledge or most importantly, promise of a better life (on Earth). For every instance where history pretend people fought for religious reasons, there was another. more powerful reason at play in the minds of everyone, not just the people in power.

As far as I see it, three "major" western wars were fought on religious grounds: The Crusades, the Moorish conquests and the Thirty Year's war. What did the World Wars have to do with religion? Or the Roman and Macedonian conquests, or all the various revolutions (accept the failed English revolution). The Crimean War? Any American war? Haitian independence? Mexican independence? Brazilian Independence? The enslavement of Africans and Native Americans (like the real reason, not some auxiliary reason people tack on later)? The Nigerian Civil War?

War is political -- that's it. It has nothing to do with religion. Ideology in general is part of the political process, but faith has not been a bigger culprit of war than nationalism and greed. Sometimes, faith and nationalism go hand in hand (like with the destruction of Canaan and Aztec conquests), but it's pretty clear that nationalism is guiding religion in that case, not the other way around. Religion is a victim of people's ignorance, not the cause of it.

I just want to state that this person is not me, in case anybody was wondering if I created another name to post thoughtful erudite stuff now that Extra Stout is retired and I only use my crazy stupid negro and genocidal authoritarian trolls.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

To me, that is much rarer in mainstream media nowadays than atheist imposing their lack of beliefs on others. People who admit they have faith are considered ignorant, and if asked to explain their views, they get attacked. Most people outside the bible belt see bible-thumpers as crazy. The WBC is almost universally panned. That's not the case for people who constantly go around and act like being smart inevitably leads to being atheist.

I mean, David Robinson and Manu Ginobili each have pretty well-defined stances on religion. But that doesn't tend to come out much. Yet people still view Robinson's faith in a bad light.

David Robinson's faith doesn't come out much? Really? He's alienated teammates by trying to shove his bible down their throat.

[Homeland Security]

I think the problem with making this work though is having a fanbase that would support an all gay team. Castro District Cruisers would be a formidable team in this league.

Just scuttle the plans to have the Warriors move back across the Bay and put an all-gay expansion team in SF instead.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Jeebo s
Trying to play the victim, per par
"Stop persecuting us, let us hate gay people in peace"

the war on Christianity continues
letting gay people marry is violating my freedom of religion

[Chinook]

I just want to state that this person is not me, in case anybody was wondering if I created another name to post thoughtful erudite stuff now that Extra Stout is retired and I only use my crazy stupid negro and genocidal authoritarian trolls.

Thanks, I guess. I'm not familiar with your previous work.

[DeadlyDynasty]

David Robinson's faith doesn't come out much? Really? He's alienated teammates by trying to shove his bible down their throat.

and devalued fans' memorabilia by writing scripture on it.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I don't think anyone on this board seriously expressed anything against the outcry of gay tolerance.

Of course you don't, you're a jeebo and jeebo s can do mental hoolahoops to convince themselves nothing they say is hateful towards gays.

I know I haven't been one of the people persecuting gay people.

Judging by your posts ITT, I strongly doubt that. Lemme guess, you think gay marriage should be illegal but you also think you're helping gay people by not letting them marry?

But there's a difference between supporting a gay person's right to be who they are and supporting the suppression of peaceful views to the contrary.

Christians have supported violence and suppression of views they disagree with for centuries, jeebo s sanctimoniously complaining about being able to freely express their views is irony at its finest.

[Blake]

and devalued fans' memorabilia by writing scripture on it.

He probably adds hundreds of dollars of value with every John 3 16, tbh.

Ask Timothy J.C. Tebow. Americans eat that up with a holy shovel.

[Chinook]

David Robinson's faith doesn't come out much? Really? He's alienated teammates by trying to shove his bible down their throat.

If it does, I must have missed it. I admit, that surely can be possible, since I was not cognizant of basketball for most of the Robinson era. He may have been worse before Duncan was there.

But I'll bring up Ray Lewis as another example, since I did follow his entire career. He did apparently clash with some teammates over his faith (Chris McAlister chief among them), but the majority were either okay with it or enjoyed it. But if the NFL forum and media in general didn't lash out at him for being openly Christian. I know he had the Atlanta thing in 2001, so most people think he's a hypocrite, but he's been a model citizen for 13 years, and people still attack him based on his mentions of religion.

Tebow is another example. He gets ridiculed for his faith, when the fact that he's a bad quarterback should be enough. I enjoy the jokes about both of them just fine, but I don't remember the last time anyone tried to get on someone for being atheist.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

If it does, I must have missed it. I admit, that surely can be possible, since I was not cognizant of basketball for most of the Robinson era. He may have been worse before Duncan was there.

When Duncan was drafted he said something along the lines of how he wasn't gonna tell Duncan how to live his life the way he did with Rodman.

But I'll bring up Ray Lewis as another example, since I did follow his entire career. He did apparently clash with some teammates over his faith (Chris McAlister chief among them), but the majority were either okay with it or enjoyed it. But if the NFL forum and media in general didn't lash out at him for being openly Christian. I know he had the Atlanta thing in 2001, so most people think he's a hypocrite, but he's been a model citizen for 13 years, and people still attack him based on his mentions of religion.

"Model citizen except for when he stabbed someone to death!"
Most people think he's a hypocrite because he is one. He stabbed someone to death and pretends to be a deeply religious, peaceful person.

Tebow is another example. He gets ridiculed for his faith, when the fact that he's a bad quarterback should be enough. I enjoy the jokes about both of them just fine, but I don't remember the last time anyone tried to get on someone for being atheist.

That's because atheists don't use a national stage to shove their beliefs down people's throat. This is a classic example of a jeebo trying to equate Christianity with atheism. People get ridiculed because they believe in illogical bull . Being an atheist isn't remotely comparable to being a jeebo .

[Homeland Security]

I was going to make some reflective post about DoK's stereotypical college-student know-it-all-ism, but I won't because who gives a as long as his posts are entertaining.

[Chinook]

Of course you don't, you're a jeebo and jeebo s can do mental hoolahoops to convince themselves nothing they say is hateful towards gays.

I'm not a Christian. You think I am because I defend them. Just like people used to call anybody who spoke up for gay rights gay. Don't you see the hypocrisy there? It's one extreme or the other with people. Either religion has to rule their lives or be mocked and downtrodden. We can't just accept it as a part of people's lives that works for individuals but shouldn't be the basis of government.

Judging by your posts ITT, I strongly doubt that. Lemme guess, you think gay marriage should be illegal but you also think you're helping gay people by not letting them marry?

I don't think gay marriage should be illegal at all. It's no one's god-damned business who anyone else marries. It's not like the divorce rates in this country are so high because of gay people. Religious nuts should look in the mirror before trying to blame others. I don't even think marriage is a religious ins ution to begin with. I had a friend tell me marriage was invented before sex, and I laughed him out of the room.

Christians have supported violence and suppression of views they disagree with for centuries, jeebo s sanctimoniously complaining about being able tofreely express their views is irony at its finest.

Yes, they have. And that's why the Bible should not be used as a guide for society. People need to learn to think for themselves and not do what a book written by people who lived thousands of years ago and who didn't give a damn about them say. Following any ideology too strongly leads to close-mindedness and oppression. I don't really respect anyone that hides behind a book when they do something wrong.

But that's not the point. We have a free society, and to keep it we need to step up and protect all rights. People have a right to their opinions, and they have a right to express them, so long as they do so in a civil way. I don't support people harassing others because they don't conform to their beliefs. That especially goes for people who are made to feel bad because of things they can't control, like their sexuality. But it also goes for people who get ridiculed for believing what they believe while not hurting others. It needs to go both ways.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I'm not a Christian. You think I am because I defend them. Just like people used to call anybody who spoke up for gay rights gay. Don't you see the hypocrisy there? It's one extreme or the other with people. Either religion has to rule their lives or be mocked and downtrodden. We can't just accept it as a part of people's lives that works for individuals but shouldn't be the basis of government.

The difference is my extreme is a response to their extreme. If Christians kept their bull to themselves and didn't try to lump it into government, I wouldn't be so obnoxious and condescending with my atheism.

I don't think gay marriage should be illegal at all. It's no one's god-damned business who anyone else marries. It's not like the divorce rates in this country are so high because of gay people. Religious nuts should look in the mirror before trying to blame others. I don't even think marriage is a religious ins ution to begin with. I had a friend tell me marriage was invented before sex, and I laughed him out of the room.

Rest assured, the people you're defending ITT would consider you got loving overtolerant lib for having this^ opinion.

Yes, they have. And that's why the Bible should not be used as a guide for society. People need to learn to think for themselves and not do what a book written by people who lived thousands of years ago and who didn't give a damn about them say. Following any ideology too strongly leads to close-mindedness and oppression. I don't really respect anyone that hides behind a book when they do something wrong.

Even though "hiding behind a book for doing something wrong" is a description that fits Ray Lewis perfectly?

But that's not the point. We have a free society, and to keep it we need to step up and protect all rights. People have a right to their opinions, and they have a right to express them, so long as they do so in a civil way. I don't support people harassing others because they don't conform to their beliefs. That especially goes for people who are made to feel bad because of things they can't control, like their sexuality. But it also goes for people who get ridiculed for believing what they believe while not hurting others. It needs to go both ways.

You're right. We're all en led to our opinions. I'm en led to the opinion jeebo Christians are destroying this country while being an extremely stupid and hateful group. Ridiculing people for something they CHOOSE to believe is also way different than ridiculing people for their sexual orientation.

By your logic, we should respect the views Nazis and have and not ridicule them because they're free to believe what they want.

[Chinook]

When Duncan was drafted he said something along the lines of how he wasn't gonna tell Duncan how to live his life the way he did with Rodman.

So what's wrong with that? How is that forcing beliefs onto others. Duncan and Robinson ended up being great friends. I don't how that applies, except maybe that Robinson had learned his lesson by then.

"Model citizen except for when he stabbed someone to death!"
Most people think he's a hypocrite because he is one. He stabbed someone to death and pretends to be a deeply religious, peaceful person.

I specifically mentioned the last 13 years, because that has been the time that he's been this way. He could have stabbed someone to death, THEN became religious. It happens, you know. And that's not even getting into the fact that all he did was lie to the police and hang out with the wrong crowd.

That's because atheists don't use a national stage to shove their beliefs down people's throat. This is a classic example of a jeebo trying to equate Christianity with atheism. People get ridiculed because they believe in illogical bull . Being an atheist isn't remotely comparable to being a jeebo .

No, atheists use crappy peer-pressure tactics and sub-media tactics instead. It's the same thing with most mainstream ideas of progressivism. They pretend like atheism is the logical theory, and theist lack the intelligence to realize it. But that's not true. Religion is non-factual, but it's not illogical. Atheism is neither more logical or factual; it's just an answer to a metaphysical question that has no conclusive evidence either way. So committing yourself to either side is equally intellectually irresponsible.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

So what's wrong with that? How is that forcing beliefs onto others. Duncan and Robinson ended up being great friends. I don't how that applies, except maybe that Robinson had learned his lesson by then.

My point was prior to Duncan he'd shoved his beliefs down the throat of other teammates.

I specifically mentioned the last 13 years, because that has been the time that he's been this way. He could have stabbed someone to death, THEN became religious. It happens, you know. And that's not even getting into the fact that all he did was lie to the police and hang out with the wrong crowd.

So in order to prevent himself from stabbing people he needs a false prophet as a crutch to believe in. Sounds like someone who should be euthanized tbh.

No, atheists use crappy peer-pressure tactics and sub-media tactics instead.

You mean logical and scientific evidence?

It's the same thing with most mainstream ideas of progressivism. They pretend like atheism is the logical theory, and theist lack the intelligence to realize it. But that's not true. Religion is non-factual, but it's not illogical. Atheism is neither more logical or factual; it's just an answer to a metaphysical question that has no conclusive evidence either way. So committing yourself to either side is equally intellectually irresponsible.

Evolution and the Big Bang theory are what is created based off all available evidence. Just because you can't conclusively say it's true doesn't mean it's just as illogical or faith based as jeebo ism. Committing yourself to the side that presents scientific evidence and actual research rather than the side that presents a book is a lot more intellectually responsible.

Saying atheism isn't more factual than theism demonstrates a gross amount of stupidity and blind defense of jeebo ism.

[Chinook]

Damn, multi-quotes are exhausting.

The difference is my extreme is a response to their extreme. If Christians kept their bull to themselves and didn't try to lump it into government, I wouldn't be so obnoxious and condescending with my atheism.

I think it's fair to attack the people who are trying to push their religion into government. It's their right to do so, but it's your right to push back. But that's the fault of those people who don't care about the separation of church and state. It's not the fault of someone who just sits at home and reads their bible in peace. There are a lot more of the latter in the country than the former, yet they get lumped together.

Rest assured, the people you're defending ITT would consider you got loving overtolerant lib for having this^ opinion.

I'm not trying to curry their favor. I think the problem with all of these issues is that the debate is structured incorrectly. No one wants to reach a consensus on any of these issues. It's just black and white with everyone. Someone should be trying to really figure out what the issues are so we can stop arguing in circles.

Even though "hiding behind a book for doing something wrong" is a description that fits Ray Lewis perfectly?

Ray isn't hiding behind a book, at least not in the sense that I meant it. He doesn't use the bible to justify what he did. He doesn't say, "Well, you know, the Good Book says that obstructing justice is all right so long as it's your homies." People who commit hate crimes then cite Leviticus are who I mean.

You're right. We're all en led to our opinions. I'm en led to the opinion jeebo Christians are destroying this country while being an extremely stupid and hateful group. Ridiculing people for something they CHOOSE to believe is also way different than ridiculing people for their sexual orientation.

By your logic, we should respect the views Nazis and have and not ridicule them because they're free to believe what they want.

I'm not trying to disrespect your view. I'm challenging it through civil discussion. I believe that's the way these things should be handled. I agree that you can have whatever opinion of anyone that you want. I don't care to change it. But my objection is not so much with your behavior (indeed, I wasn't even talking to you originally) as much as it is with people boycotting Chick Fil 'A or attacking Oscar Scott Card for being against gay marriage when that had nothing to do with the products they were selling. Card wasn't writing in his books that everyone should kill gay people. People shouldn't have to agree with all of our view for us to treat them with respect. It's 2013, and we should be able to just say, "I disagree with your views, but I still appreciate the contributions you make."

[DPG21920]

DoK is way off base IMO. Too many bad arguments to keep count here. He hates religion so much then goes on and on about how religious people are biased. IMO, the "it's so cool to bash religion" crowd is one of the more obnoxious, close-minded group out there. They are like the hipsters of debate.

That logic of "well if religious people didn't want gays to celebrate, they shouldn't have persecuted them" argument is even more funny considering DoK essentially hates minorities and thinks that they shouldn't have programs like affirmative action and such even though they have been and continue to be persecuted.

I have religious beliefs but I definitely support gay marriage and people being open about it. I don't agree with it, but I don't hold it against anyone. Much like I have great friends with different religious beliefs, political views and other major differences.

[DPG21920]

Also, Nazi's? You can only respect other's views until it infringes on their basic human rights. If your intent is to harm (be it physically or mentally) that is not "respecting someone's difference of opinion' and of course should be fought against.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

That logic of "well if religious people didn't want gays to celebrate, they shouldn't have persecuted them" argument is even more funny considering DoK essentially hates minorities and thinks that they shouldn't have programs like affirmative action and such even though they have been and continue to be persecuted.

ad-hominem logical fallacy
Christians being unable to logically attack my argument

[DPG21920]

Also lol at DoK citing Robinson like it's common. It's so uncommon you would be ultra hard-pressed to find many examples like DRob in all of sports. It's not common at all and DRob is a rare bread in that regard.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Also, Nazi's? You can only respect other's views until it infringes on their basic human rights. If your intent is to harm (be it physically or mentally) that is not "respecting someone's difference of opinion' and of course should be fought against.

Christians have been infringing on the rights of others for decades, gays being the current prominent example.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Also lol at DoK citing Robinson like it's common. It's so uncommon you would be ultra hard-pressed to find many examples like DRob in all of sports. It's not common at all and DRob is a rare bread in that regard.

I didn't cite Robinson, I responded to a post about him.

[DPG21920]

ad-hominem logical fallacy
Christians being unable to logically attack my argument

No, that's exactly what you do when you say things like Nazi's and "maybe if you didn't want this you shouldn't have been so mean!".

So do you love minorities and believe in all of their programs and griping?