I was probably the biggest Bonner hater on the board circa 2011. But considering it's 2015-2016 and this is still on the team, you just gotta admire his resiliency.
Hating on him is pointless, it'd be like hating on the sun for rising every morning tbh
Lol what a weak ass argument and proves again nobody van say this guy is good with any proof. Now buckets made does not matter although tht is one of his few skillsets. I guess clutch does not count nor exist now either. I get it nice guy and knows the system etc. but honestly man % in the playoffs does matter and clutch guys like Horry and Diaw do matter as far as les go or not. Fans are not dumb who like guys who make shots and plays when it counts And Bonner sure as is not one of those guys. I guess we dont know the game because we dont love Bonner!
Yep another who argues how good Bonner is but never has a playoff run or clutch shots made list to prove he is effective when it really counts in which he is not. His shots brick late in tight games or he passes them off. Bonner does not have that it factor some have.
If Horry is a clutch player, why didn't he come up "clutch" in the playoffs in 1992, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2003, 2004, 2006 an 2008? If he's clutch like you are saying, then he should come up clutch every season, no?
I agree he's made big shots in his career for the Rockets, Lakers and Spurs but that wasn't because he was clutch. It was because he had confidence in his skill-set shooting the three and he was playing for the right teams at the right time and had 16 years of playoff experience to have ample opportunities to come up with a big shot at the end of a few of those playoff games he played in.
There's no such thing as a clutch player. Players are who they are. Great players will make great plays at the end of the games -- they will also make bad plays or miss an open shot. Great shooters will make three pointers at the end of games, they will also miss them too.
comes up more clutch then manu
No, you're a tool. And you talk a lot, without taking the time to look at the numbers, and know what you're talking about.
In 9 years of playoff experience, Bonner had two games where he shot well. Take those two games out of his history, and he's shot .319 from the arc for the rest of his playoff career. That's for a spot up 3P specialist. You do understand that's what he is... right?
Those same 9 years, he shot .414 during the regular season. I was one of the biggest Bonner defenders here - sometimes almost the only one. But even I couldn't deny that his goes to in the playoffs.
At the min, he's cheap insurance, and a guy to fill minutes during the regular season. If you're depending on him in the playoffs, get ready to go fishing.
As I said above, it wasn't a good playoff run. It was two good games, in a ty playoff history. Two freaking games against teams that we swept, and were already beaten down.
Translation: when you throw out the good appearances, and look primarily at the bad ones, Bonner's actually even worse than he really is.
Someone, Manu4Tres, I believe, actually addressed part of your problem, above.
nvm
His fan boys are idiots now man, seriously ignoring stats and so on saying he is what he is and a 14th man. He is not clutch, is not good in the playoffs when it counts and his % is horrible, but that doesn't matter! We are idiots because we don't love the guy! I guess made buckets in the playoffs don't count now? Clutch does not exist! We are idiots because we don't just love Ginger and turn the cheek on the fact he sucks when it really matters.
Yep and it was a stupid argument with no basis in which he brought to the table. No clutch gene and there is no clutch guys etc., bull Horry and Diaw say O.....
Nobody is arguing against that. I agree with that -- his 3 point shooting is his most valuable trait though with his IQ on both ends being his 2nd. Every other attribute or trait of his is below average for a NBA role player.
He's the 6th big and the 14th guy on the roster -- the signing is fine.
But if you're going to bring up "playoff performer" argument or "clutch gene" argument then that's where I disagree. Most cases are inconclusive because the sample size isn't relevant enough. There's just no way to quantify clutch -- there's no such thing.
He stretches the defense, that's what is important.
Yep and Bonner is not one of those guys who makes a big play or shot at the end of the games, never has been never will be. Horry had confidence as you said, guess Bonner when he passes up shots or looks hesitant out there when it's on the line just doesn't have confidence in his shot. I see a hesitant guy a lot of times to tell you the truth.
Horry has had bad playoff runs true indeed but the memorable shots he made are timeless, Bonner doesn't really have that moment nor playoff run to speak of outside of a game or two so I am not really a huge fan of him tbh. As a 14th man cool, anything more than that spells disaster with that guy hence his 20 minutes per game run a few years in a row and bad playoff series outings.Thats his attribute then, surely not made shots nor key memorable plays when the game is on the line. I hear that argument a lot and that is all they really have for Bonner. IMO the guy is not that good outside of made threes during the year, which he is pretty good at during regular season.
I'm no fan boy. I was suggesting he was done a long time ago, and his shooting was dropping off, and I was wrong. I revisited, and changed by opinion. I think those belly-aching about him are still wrong, at least for this minor role. Again, no one is advocating anything more than regular season minute eater, garbage time role player, or special situation use. Just trying to be rational. Not emotional. Not upset enough to go ad hominem, for example.
I agree on most of that but some players come up bigger than others when the game is on the line and make key buckets you remember forever as a fan, Bonner is not one of those guys regardless of his role. I see a hesitant shooter late in games and a passive guy to be honest, just not his thing to take or make big shots. I do believe his % dips below in the playoffs because of nerves or confidence issues, either or he is what he is as you said.
If two games is all your good appearances, in a 9 year playoff history with a team that's always in the playoffs, that pretty much says it all.
ing re .
Let's be real, the reason you remember Horry coming up w/ big shots or the reason Horry came up w/ more big shots than other role players in NBA history was because he had ample of opportunities to succeed in the late game scenarios -- more so than any role player in NBA history. This is where my sample size in playoffs arguments comes to light. I would hope Horry has more than 1 big shot in his career for all the opportunities he's had in 16 straight deep playoff appearances. He played in SIXTEEN Playoffs in a row and was the perfect complimentary role player for Dream, Shaq, and Duncan because of his defense and his ability to shoot the 3 to give them space to operate on the low post.
And to compare Bonner to Horry is silly -- not because of clutch or big shots, its because Horry was a much better player than Bonner in all phases.
Bonner is not going to have a swagger or confidence because his skill-set does not warrant that confidence in huge games against the stiffest compe ion on the biggest stage. He probably knows he has no business at the end of big playoff games just as Pop does because lets be real -- Bonner has hardly ever stepped foot on the court in the last 5 minutes of a big playoff game during his 9 years as a Spur.
Look, you're a good poster, and I know you know about basketball. And, yeah, guys are who they are. But in any sport, there are guys who wilt under pressure. That's undeniable, and it's what separates the greats from the goats. If "clutch" means a guy who hits every buzzer-beater when the game is tied, or makes every FT to keep the Championship from being lost in OT - then, yeah, that's bull . So how about if we define "clutch" as a guy who doesn't go to under pressure? Doesn't look like a deer in the headlights. If guys "are who they are" how about clutch meaning the guy who is still who he is, rather than worse.
When it comes to the playoffs, Bonner is worse. You can't get around it. Yeah, the sample size is smaller, but that's true no matter what player you try to analyze. The fact is, Bonner has gotten a LOT of playoff experience, because he's played 9 years with the team that spends the most time in the playoffs. So if we can't analyze his playoff stats, we might as well stop keeping playoff stats. He's only started a few playoff games, but he's got enough games, and enough minutes to examine.
I don't remember him being the guy with the ball in his hands, during the "clutch" moments of playoff games, so it's not about that. His minutes have been bread-and-butter time. And you can't deny that his performance has consistently been significantly worse during playoff time. Enough worse to be noticeable. (Pop has obviously noticed it.) I think you know too much about the game to totally ignore it.
So, yeah, he's cheap insurance during the regular season. But if anyone thinks he'll figure significantly into the playoff picture (barring some terrible injuries to other players), I would love to make a wager or two. That's all I said to begin with. He's there for regular season cannon fodder, and insurance.
The fact is, Horry WANTED the ball in those situations. In his mind, he KNEW he could make the big shot. He thrived on that, lived for it. And THAT may be the difference between "clutch" and the guys that are deer in the headlights.
the debate of Bonner's value, whether it's as a cheap, familiar, shooting, role player. Or a deceptively costly, irrelevant, bricking, wasted roster spot. proving things, and simply realizing things. the existance of "clutch" and "it factor." it all reminds me of the political debate of libertarian ideology vs common society. who better understands? there is no definitive answer, i suppose. i disagree, but for the sake of peace, i will suppose there is no definitive answer. Since it doesn't really matter, anyways. Pop has a hard on for Bonner, and they've achieved considerable success. Many fans agree and disagree, but Pop and RC make the calls. Fans are truly very insignificant.
just for fun, i found this long debate between libertarian and non-libertarian powerhouses. Fellow Bonner hating, clutch factor believers. If you can't accept that evil has won, i beg you... accept it! watch the video... learn to embrace evil, so that you might learn to better affect it. acceptance is the weapon of the innovators. rejection is the weapon of the evil. if you reject your acceptance, you have lost your ability to affect evil. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AcUkA0tq28
That's called confidence -- which is understandable because he was a very good role player in many phases of the game, he was not a clutch player though because there's no such thing as a clutch player.
If there was such thing as a clutch player and if Horry was one, Horry would have came through for the Rockets in 1992, 1993. He would have came through for the Lakers in 1998 ,1999, 2000 and 2003. He would have came through for the Spurs in 2004, 2006, 2008. He missed a lot big shots those years and didn't shoot the three as well as he did in the regular season -- but no one remembers that because they're delusional and infatuated about the " clutch player" mystique.
i'll tell you another effective weapon for Pop sucking Bonner love. Confessing the expectation that KG and the Twolves are going to eliminate the Spurs from the playoffs this year. And it won't even be Bonners fault. It may not even be Aldridges. It'll be the same fault it has always been. The Spurs are a crochety, archaic, government official. They don't believe in magic, they put facts and numbers to use and do what they can. They couldn't possibly be lucky, they don't acknowledge luck. They are strict failures, who achieve success because this is a world of failures. Please, convert to the Timberwolves. Join a fandom that has a finger on the pulse of magic. The Wolves roster is insane, and strict failures can't even see it. They're too blinded by a perspective of insanity.
138 SHOTS
I meant Williams, but like one of the poster mentioned I had James White stucked in my head. He was another scrub the Spurs had as SF a few years back. But the dude could dunk.
Anyways it looks like Reggie was waived even though I have yet to find an Official announcement.
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