Wife of Joel Osteen Asked to Leave Plane

[Phenomanul]

Watching all the old-oil-money millionaires tooling around in their Tahoes has made mookie the man he is today.

Mookie surrounded by White Conservative Millionaires..... wow, I'm beginning to understand his perspective....

[Marcus Bryant]

Cause it's Marcus's logic that refuses to see that GOD can and will bless his children....

I pointed him to JOB and he ignored me...
I pointed him to King Solomon and he ignored me...

I've ignored nothing. You do not become a believer in order to become wealthy. Sure, that's up to God, but there is nothing in Scripture about how someone should believe so they can gain material riches here on Earth. If you want to flame me for that, sobeit. Maybe you need to stop believing that nonsense as well.

He just has chosen to ignore the rest of Osteen's messages.... wait he hasn't really sat through one... hmm I can sniff credibility issues here.... Marcus has vehemently stuck to his point "Osteen is a false prophet blah blah blah...." without giving one bit of evidence... and that is considered a good point??? it's an argument without basis in my book... his only argument is biased because it is based on only one of Osteen's central themes.

Ah yes, if you just ignore the little fact that the pastor has made himself wealthy off pushing an absurd notion of what the Christian faith is, then he's alright.

NOW having said that, I will reinstate what I said in an earlier post; that it is rather unfortunate that these large congregations exist in the first place... IT is much harder to work and contribute when there are so many members.... Some of them, like I mentioned in said post, attend those churches simply out of laziness.... it is much easier for them to recieve recieve recieve without giving or doing much... they hide among the masses. They are not accountable or responsible for anything... as a result those members remain spiritually stagnant.

Sure, what kind of ministry is Osteen engaging in exactly? Less than a week before Christmas and as the leader of a 30K+ congregation he's hitting the slopes in Vail.

My church, on the other hand, has about 130 members and everyone is responsible for a ministry (even some of the children)... again, churches are supposed to teach you spiritual accountability as well as responsibility... this is much more difficult when you are surrounded by 30,000 people and when your communication with the spiritual counselor (i.e. the pastor) is a rarity.

I don't condone the fact that some pastors earn millionaire salaries... but I'm not going to judge their church's prosperity either.... As far as I know they donate many millions of dollars to charitable organizations. And as a whole they are doing their part.

Since when is becoming wealthy off running a ministry acceptable? Seriously.

I don't condone of Osteen's wife's hissy fit either... but based on some of the interviews of passengers who witnessed the scandal (a later report) they claim the stewardess is the one who blew it out of proportion... the first report only stated what happenned and left much to the imagination...

Anyway smeagol this isn't a proplem confined to 'evangelicals'... I don't particularly agree with the superfluous excesses doned by vatican officials or the pope.... I mean c'mon... the Pope sits on a golden throne.... and wears vestiments threaded from silver fibers.

I know you've been trying to learn about evangelical Christianity... just don't toss us all on the same boat.

'Others do it' is not a defense. It's not hard to see that Osteen is what he is, a snake oil salesman exploiting a false teaching in order to enrich himself.

[Extra Stout]

I always thought i was quite dedicated in my religion... spiritually set up for life.

buit now i am seriosly considering throwing it all out the window and worshiping you.

The Church of SW is meeting over in the baseball forum.

[Das Texan]

wow this thing has exploded.

look the bottom line is that joel osteen is just like every other big name preacher. I dont pay attention to him because I consider him cultlike in many ways, same thing with a guy like Hagee.

I have always believed that ministers if they are true to the word of God should not be living in mansions, they should not be allowed all the luxuries of this Earth. If their flock are able to do this, then that is fine, they should be living by a more simple means, a more Christ like means, as they are in many ways representing Christ when they get up on the pulpit every Sunday (recycled sermons or not)

Maybe thats just me, but for Osteen to be making fortunes off his flock is in many ways a bit sad.

[j-6]

The Church of SW is meeting over in the baseball forum.

The plaque for the alternates is down in the ladies room?

[Sportcamper]

I think you all are missing the point....When I fly 1st class, it is the stewardess’s job to attend to my every need...The mess/spill should not have even of been there in the 1st place...Since it was there, I would have expected the stewardess to clean it up immediately, get me a gin & tonic.... And perhaps offer me a soothing back rub for my troubles...

It is apparent to me that Mr.’s Osteen got on the flight from ...There were probably a bunch of screaming kids on that plane & no curtain to separate 1st class form steerage!

[ObiwanGinobili]

@ "steerage"

[Phenomanul]

I've ignored nothing. You do not become a believer in order to become wealthy. Sure, that's up to God, but there is nothing in Scripture about how someone should believe so they can gain material riches here on Earth. If you want to flame me for that, sobeit. Maybe you need to stop believing that nonsense as well.

You want to keep it simple fine... I believe it simply because I know GOD is the owner of everthing... He can give me what he pleases.... Our purpose here is on earth is to care for others..widows, orphans, so that the Love of GOD be manifested through our works.... I know I will get slammed for this, but it is a biblically supported belief... If all Christians were des ute it would be rather difficult to achieve this purpose in fullness??

Ah yes, if you just ignore the little fact that the pastor has made himself wealthy off pushing an absurd notion of what the Christian faith is, then he's alright.

OK so what we know is that If I publish a book I have to reject all of its earnings right...???

Sure, what kind of ministry is Osteen engaging in exactly? Less than a week before Christmas and as the leader of a 30K+ congregation he's hitting the slopes in Vail.

Spare me the criticism... what was he doing the day before the trip or the day before that? I don't know why don't you give him a call?? How about you two compare the percentages of salary you all give to charity every year.

Since when is becoming wealthy off running a ministry acceptable? Seriously.

It's not. You are right in that regard. But seriously you would then have to answer if being wealthy was wrong before GOD. I believe he knows who does, and doesn't get distracted by the lure of money...

'Others do it' is not a defense. It's not hard to see that Osteen is what he is, a snake oil salesman exploiting a false teaching in order to enrich himself.

Your opinion.

[The sone]

@ "steerage"

now thats smart...lol.

what about "spam cab", or "meat trailer"?

[smeagol]

Anyway smeagol this isn't a proplem confined to 'evangelicals'... I don't particularly agree with the superfluous excesses doned by vatican officials or the pope.... I mean c'mon... the Pope sits on a golden throne.... and wears vestiments threaded from silver fibers.

I know you've been trying to learn about evangelical Christianity... just don't toss us all on the same boat.

I never said this was a problem which is confined to tele-evangelists, but it is much more evident in this group of people.

You can say many things about the Pope but that he is in Religion to make money would be far from the truth. Many tele-evangelists are too fond of money, and to assume they are in this line of "business" for the money is not far fetched.

And I'm surprised that you, who appears to have studied the Bible (probably much more than what I have), do not have a problem with this.

[Extra Stout]

Our purpose here is on earth is to care for others..widows, orphans, so that the Love of GOD be manifested through our works.... I know I will get slammed for this, but it is a biblically supported belief... If all Christians were des ute it would be rather difficult to achieve this purpose in fullness??

You erect a strawman when you say "des ute."

[spurjur]

So pretty much those who oppose Osteen feel that he is in it to make money because he has the biggest church in the U.S, probably lives in a huge mansion, goes to Vail, CO before Christmas?????

So those who do the work of God should preach in a broken down church building with no A/C, live in a small apartment with lead in the paint, and never think about treating his/her family to a family vacation before Christmas????

I think not. The Gospel means "Good News." Good News can be a drug addict kicking his habbit, a pros ute changing her life, a person diagnosed with cancer getting healed, but it should not include a person who was broke and now lives debt free in a nice house and drive a nice car? That doesn't seem right to me.

[Marcus Bryant]

You want to keep it simple fine... I believe it simply because I know GOD is the owner of everthing... He can give me what he pleases.... Our purpose here is on earth is to care for others..widows, orphans, so that the Love of GOD be manifested through our works.... I know I will get slammed for this, but it is a biblically supported belief... If all Christians were des ute it would be rather difficult to achieve this purpose in fullness??

Right. As part of our faith we are to submit our own will, perhaps think about helping out the less fortunate. We aren't supposed to be lusting after luxury items as part of our faith.

OK so what we know is that If I publish a book I have to reject all of its earnings right...???

That's not the issue. For starters, he's selling a false Gospel. Secondly, he is making $ off his ministry. It's not the same as just writing a book about whatever.

Spare me the criticism... what was he doing the day before the trip or the day before that? I don't know why don't you give him a call?? How about you two compare the percentages of salary you all give to charity every year.

Attacking someone else is not a defense.

It's not. You are right in that regard. But seriously you would then have to answer if being wealthy was wrong before GOD. I believe he knows who does, and doesn't get distracted by the lure of money...

Osteen is preaching a Gospel that puts material desires center stage in the faith.

Your opinion.

What else is it then? I didn't realize that Christianity consisted of begging God for luxury goods.

[spurjur]

Where do you get the idea of him begging God for luxury items? You're so far off. Do you know 100% that he is selling a false Gospel? I doubt it.

[Marcus Bryant]

So pretty much those who oppose Osteen feel that he is in it to make money because he has the biggest church in the U.S, probably lives in a huge mansion, goes to Vail, CO before Christmas?????

Read what you just wrote. Since when is being a minister about living a luxiorous life?

Beyond that, he is spreading a false Gospel. Christ was a poor Jewish carpenter who had no desire for wealth. Now we have a minister who vacations in Vail. If it looks like a duck...

So those who do the work of God should preach in a broken down church building with no A/C, live in a small apartment with lead in the paint, and never think about treating his/her family to a family vacation before Christmas????

Again you are missing the point. Those who preach the word should be doing it for something other than to become obscenely wealthy. Where's the service to others? Where's the humility?

I think not. The Gospel means "Good News." Good News can be a drug addict kicking his habbit, a pros ute changing her life, a person diagnosed with cancer getting healed, but it should not include a person who was broke and now lives debt free in a nice house and drive a nice car? That doesn't seem right to me.

A shopping spree at Neiman's, a new Porsche, a new yacht, etc...that is what does not seem right.

The Gospel says not to cast your lot with the material. If you are blessed with a nice home, family, etc...give thanks to God. But that is not why you are a Christian.

Is this really that hard to understand?

[Marcus Bryant]

Where do you get the idea of him begging God for luxury items? You're so far off. Do you know 100% that he is selling a false Gospel? I doubt it.

Check out the book.

[Nbadan]

wow this thing has exploded.

look the bottom line is that joel osteen is just like every other big name preacher. I dont pay attention to him because I consider him cultlike in many ways, same thing with a guy like Hagee.

I have always believed that ministers if they are true to the word of God should not be living in mansions, they should not be allowed all the luxuries of this Earth. If their flock are able to do this, then that is fine, they should be living by a more simple means, a more Christ like means, as they are in many ways representing Christ when they get up on the pulpit every Sunday (recycled sermons or not)

Maybe thats just me, but for Osteen to be making fortunes off his flock is in many ways a bit sad.

Olsteen is no Hagee..

Pastor Joel Osteen and Lakewood Church raising money for hurricane victims

Lakewood Church Helping at the Astrodome and Other Shelters

Pastor Joel Osteen and Lakewood Church are working with Mayor Bill White, other churches, and relief organizations to provide help for the thousands of Gulf Coast evacuees who are holed up in Houston.

They are RAISING MONEY for hot meals, recruiting volunteers, and gathering supplies and non-perishable food items for hurricane victims.

Link

[Nbadan]

Osteen says in his book that he and his wife Victoria bought and fixed up houses to sell for a profit back in their salad says, which enabled them to build their present house 10 years ago, not from church money.

In fact, the pastor, who admits his 3 million seller book has made him fabulously wealthy, last year stopped taking his $200,000 church salary.

He could call his big house the church parsonage and legally avoid property taxes, but county records show he paid the $25,329 tax bill on the place with his own money.

WXYZ

[Marcus Bryant]

Christ was borderline communist. His teachings were about how one gets salvation, not how one can get all the material items of their dreams.

I suppose it was only a matter of time for the Truth to become so distorted in America's consumerist society that it became a message of improving your haul from the mall rather than sin and salvation.

[Extra Stout]

I think not. The Gospel means "Good News." Good News can be a drug addict kicking his habbit, a pros ute changing her life, a person diagnosed with cancer getting healed, but it should not include a person who was broke and now lives debt free in a nice house and drive a nice car? That doesn't seem right to me.

The "Good News" is reconciliation to God through Jesus Christ.

With that power, a person can change their life. They can depend on the power to make them strong enough to break addiction, to stop a destructive lifestyle, to be healed from sickness, and to get out of debt by stopping destructive materialism, but in no way does the Bible say that through Jesus Christ we can live in a nice house and drive a nice car. That is utterly an hetical to Christ's teaching, and any believer who places his or her hope in that has a grossly distorted understanding of the Gospel.

And whether that seems right to you or me is irrelevant because God, not us, gets to decide what matters in his Kingdom.

This is what Jesus had to say on the matter:

19"Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
22"The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are good, your whole body will be full of light. 23But if your eyes are bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!

24"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.

25"Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? 26Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life[b]?
28"And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? 31So do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' 32For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

[spurjur]

The "Good News" is reconciliation to God through Jesus Christ.

With that power, a person can change their life. They can depend on the power to make them strong enough to break addiction, to stop a destructive lifestyle, to be healed from sickness, and to get out of debt by stopping destructive materialism, but in no way does the Bible say that through Jesus Christ we can live in a nice house and drive a nice car. That is utterly an hetical to Christ's teaching, and any believer who places his or her hope in that has a grossly distorted understanding of the Gospel.

And whether that seems right to you or me is irrelevant because God, not us, gets to decide what matters in his Kingdom.

This is what Jesus had to say on the matter:

19"Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
22"The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are good, your whole body will be full of light. 23But if your eyes are bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!

24"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.

25"Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? 26Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life[b]?
28"And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? 31So do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' 32For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

Very good. Now show me where Pastor Olsteen serves money.

[1369]

Since we are on the topic of religion (that doesn't look like I spelled it right), I saw an interesting program on Discovery (or one of those networks) about looking at the bible from a military view to explain some of the passages. One thing that struck me was that the Israelites weren't slaves, but rather a band of mercenaries who got too large in numbers causing Pharoh to have them booted out of Egypt. They had a couple of other interesting theories pertaining to the "Pillars of smoke and fire" that led Moses through the desert and the battle of Jericho.

[spurjur]

Just A Question? How Old Are You Marcus?

[Marcus Bryant]

12

[spurjur]

12

YEAH. ITS COOL. IF YOU DON'T WANT TO GIVE OUT YOUR REAL AGE THAT'S YOUR THING.