Reply With Quote
Someone told me he goes to the parts of San Antonio that he believes to be highly Hispanic and thus thought to be highly Catholic and that those are the neighborhoods he targets.
Hmmm.. that's interesting.. I'm thinking back over the 100+ mission trips and outreach ministries that my Evangelical church participates in every year and I can't think of a single one that was looking to convert Catholics. Granted, I know some Protestants that are concerned with some members of the Catholic church being led astray from the message of Christ by things that resemble idol worship (ie lining up to worship a relic of a saint) but I don't know of any that specifically go to known places of Catholic worship or whatever and "target" Catholics. If a Catholic wants to discuss theology with them, then they will participate, but I haven't seen anyone at my church target someone because they are Catholic. In fact, we call ourselves interdenominational because we welcome Catholics.
*checking mission statement and membership card* Nope, I don't see anything here about converting Catholics....
Someone told me he goes to the parts of San Antonio that he believes to be highly Hispanic and thus thought to be highly Catholic and that those are the neighborhoods he targets.
That's one person... there may be a few more, but it's unfair to characterize all Evangelicals that way. Just as it's unfair to characterize all Catholics as idol worshippers based on seeing them line up to worship and kiss a relic... not all Catholics behave that way and not all Evangelicals behave that way.
there is nothing remotely blasphemous in that statement.
I was answering the question as to why more Catholics convert to Evangelical Protestantism than the other way around. My response is accurate-- more Evangelicals target Catholics than Catholics target Evangelicals. It does not mean they all do.
See, I don't think Protestants are going to but many have told me that I am.
IMO, it, along with the some other doctrinal statements cited in this thread, lessen Christ's importance. He alone saved us.
You might want to have a little more to back up your claim when you call someone blasphemous, but then again you have claimed to know the Church's teachings on many issues in this thread and been flat out wrong.
How'd He get here to save us?
You need to meet more Protestants.
My mother is Catholic, a good Christian, and a great woman.
I DO NOT try to convert her; although I do discuss her theology with her - her faith is strong, and she belongs to a good, supportive church; above all: she is saved.
well, i think that is ridiculous. Mary should be venerated, she was chosen by God to bear his only son. it doesn't make her a co-redeember, but she is worthy of being honored for her sacrifice. pheno's posts on the matter of Mary look like nitpicking to me, inconsequential. Mary isn't the focus of Catholicism, it will always be the holy trinity.
Believe me I know many, many Protestants who seem to think they know more about my own Church than I do- kind of like in this thread.
I believe YOU just called me a blasphemer for my beliefs.
I think everyone will have a different experience in life, because I am Protestant, I have been told by Catholics that I'm going to . I'm just telling you that I have never seen one of my church members deliberately target Catholics, I have never heard my pastor encourage Catholics to convert or encourage us to try and convert Catholics, and since I'm also church shopping in a new city and have visited several Protestant churches here I have never seen any inclination of doing the same here. By the way, I have several Catholic friends and I have never tried to convert them... ever. I have had theological disagreements with a couple but I have never ever told them that they were going to .
Not that I'm disagreeing, but as a matter of curiosity, why do so many of the Catholic churches I have visited have Mary as the focal center of the shrine? I've been to a few where there is this HUGE shrine to Mary and Jesus is kind of off to the side. I just visited one recently where this was the case.
GOD planned our redemption the moment Adam and Eve committed sin.
It's GOD's glory alone.
Jerry Moser's little Southern Baptist church is surrounded by South Louisiana swampland -- and by Catholic parishes.
Moser, pastor of Bayou DuLarge Baptist Church in Theriot, about 80 miles southwest of New Orleans, says Baptists and Catholics have for the past few generations managed to live side by side without problems. He calls it "peaceful coexistence."
But Moser is clear that he doesn’t consider Catholics to be Christians on an equal footing. [What I said was that sacramental faith is not the biblical Gospel. Thus, since Catholicism officially teaches a sacramental system of faith, those who trust in the official teachings of Roman Catholicism are not truly Christians at all.] He said their beliefs are "diametrically opposed" to those of Southern Baptists and that there should be more evangelistic work among Catholics to convert them to an evangelical belief.
...
But the Southern Baptist Convention’s annual pre-convention door-to-door evangelistic program, called "Crossover," in heavily Catholic south Louisiana serves as a reminder that the relationship between the two largest religious groups in the United States remains distant.
http://www.cephas-library.com/baptis...catholics.html
Nitpicking????
Remember that one instance alone of doctrinal fallability regarding supposedly infallible doctrines renders the whole allegation null.
The unduly 'veneration' of Mary is significant in that the RCC claims doctrinal perfection... when I don't see it as even attainable. Its supposed doctrinal perfection, in turn, is what has given the Roman Catholic Ins ution the authority to outright dismiss doctrines engendered outside of its Catechism. But if that 'perfection' doesn't exist, it means that we are all -- from an access to GOD standpoint -- on a level playing field. GOD has extended His gift of Salvation to all who wish to accept it... sounds like a level playing field to me.
The RCC contends that only through her humanity can attain salvation.
Without the imaginary leverage that they held for centuries on interpretative matters the RCC would not have been able to wield or exert its massive power. It's no wonder that the advent of the printing press was a key factor in the rise of Protestanism. People began to see for themselves that Christ's evangelical message was plain and simple and not complicated or ritualistic.
Per their doctrine, the RCC has claimed that exclusivity to Heaven goes through her. The bible on the other hand clearly denotes that access to Heaven goes exclusively through our Mediator JESUS Christ our LORD and Savior. That is a significant difference.
I've never claimed that all catholics go to ... In fact, I believe that millions of catholics have truly understood GOD's grace through Christ. That they go through other catholic rites, though unnecessary IMO, does not strip them of their salvation. The Roman Catholic Church, however, does have the audacity to claim that those outside her wishes fall out of GOD's grace. I've yet to see any of the catholic defenders here, raise any ounce of concern about that false assertion. One that essentially denies my access to GOD.
To fulfill God's plan, He had to become fully human. He had to be born OF A WOMAN and some woman had to say Yes.
Why do you have such a problem with a simple acknowledgement that Mary agreeing to bear the Savior- YOUR Savior- gives her a role in salvation history?
This is exactly the experience I have received and witnessed as a member of the church. I'm sorry that some other churches may have the mission confused. Interesting, to me, it seems that Catholic doctrine teaches that we are engaged in a false Christianity, how does that reconcile with your belief that Protestants aren't going to because they aren't Catholic?Protestant services not OK for Catholics
Gazette, The (Colorado Springs), Oct 17, 2005 by PAUL ASAY THE GAZETTE
Roman Catholics should avoid Protestant services, no matter how good the music is.
That's the word from Peter Howard, executive assistant to Bishop Michael Sheridan, head of the Roman Catholic Diocese of Colorado Springs. Howard says Catholics who split time between their parishes and contemporary Protestant megachurches are violating church teaching.
Howard addressed the issue in a column for the Oct. 7 Colorado Catholic Herald, the diocesan newspaper. The column was led "Why Not Attend New Life?" -- a reference to New Life Church, the city's largest nondenominational congregation, which attracts thousands of Catholics every week.
"If you know somebody is engaged in something unhealthy, you have at least the duty to inform them of what they're doing," Howard said during a recent interview.
Although Catholics and evangelicals are united by a common faith and their leaders agree on social issues such as abortion, Howard's column spotlights lingering theological differences between the groups --both of which wield enormous influence locally.
Colorado Springs is sometimes called an evangelical Vatican and is home to a huge conglomeration of evangelical churches and organizations. Catholics, meanwhile, make up 17 percent to 18 percent of the city's population, and the sprawling 10-county diocese encompasses more than 130,000 parishioners.
Evangelicals and Catholics are driven to evangelize by a self- assurance in their brand of Christianity. Catholic doctrine holds that it is the only full manifestation of the faith and that all other denominations must eventually return to the Catholic fold.
Massive megachurches such as New Life, with their high-powered worship bands and charismatic pastors, can "confuse" Catholics who aren't completely grounded in their faith, Howard says. Attending these services also snubs the Catholic church.
"Why do Catholics leave the faith? Because they don't understand what the Catholic faith is," Howard said in an interview.
In his column, Howard wrote that the church has consistently discouraged Catholics from going to Protestant services even if they also attend Mass. He quoted Pope Pius XI (pope from 1922 to 1939), who said, "the Apostolic See cannot on any terms take part in their assemblies... for if they do so they will be giving countenance to a false Christianity, quite alien to the one Church of Christ."
"It was an important question because there is a lot of confusion among Catholics regarding their relationship with other Christian communities," Howard said.
Although the Catholic Church encourages e enism -- interdenominational dialogue among Christians -- it's a much different thing to actually participate in a non-Catholic worship service, according to Howard, because Protestant teachings often run counter to Catholic doctrine.
Take the Eucharist, for example. Most Protestants believe the bread and wine are symbols, but Catholics are taught that the sacrament is transfigured into the body and blood of Jesus.
Howard said Catholic children should stay away from Protestant youth groups, which often are designed to attract new church attendees. Bible studies are OK, but Howard says Catholics would go into such studies with different mindsets than Protestants. They have, after all, 2,000 years' worth of Catholic teaching that guides their understanding of the Bible.
"That's why it would be difficult for a Catholic to go to a Bible study, unless their intention was to help guide (Protestants)," Howard said.
Churches like New Life are open about their mission to convert nonbelievers. But Catholics are Christian already. The Rev. Ted Haggard says New Life doesn't try to "convert" Catholics.
"We want to be a blessing to the Catholic church," said Haggard, senior pastor for New Life. "We just want to encourage people in their spiritual walk."
Haggard estimates that as many as a third of New Life's regular attendees would call themselves Catholic. He says the church is "interdenominational," meaning that Christians from a variety of denominations attend. Some go just to church-sponsored small groups or Bible studies; others take part in New Life's mammoth weekend get- togethers.
"We let people make all those choices," Haggard said. "We don't dictate to them."
He said New Life would never restrict its attendees from becoming Catholic or attending Catholic Mass, but he doesn't take issue with Howard's column.
"One of the problems of freedom of religion is, people have freedom," he said. "They make their choices. For him to put this argument forward is part of the process and just fine. I think that's what keeps American religion so vibrant and so alive."
CONTACT THE WRITER: 636-0367 or [email protected]
I despise when that happens. I don't see it much in Texas, but I know it happens a lot in Louisiana, especially in SBC churches. Though I disagree with a lot of Catholic theology, especially the Marianistic traditions, the RCC upholds the Apostles', Nicene, and Athanasian creeds. It is legitimately Christian.
The only instances where I could condone that is in those parishes, like what Phenom refers to, where the worship is synchretistic. The RCC should be taking care of its own business there and removing the heretical priests engaging in false teaching that leads the flock astray. If it won't, somebody else has to stand in the gap.
I don't have a problem with that. Not as you stated it. She had a role just as Prophets had a role, just as the Apostles had a role... Ultimately, I owe my salvation to GOD's love and grace alone.
But the problem I do have is that the acknowlegement is not simple as you stated. Claiming that Mary is my Queen is a whole other premise altogether.
Wow, what a profoundly arrogant at ude on behalf of Bishop Howard. I state and defend my beliefs and how I arrive at them, but my church certainly does not arrogate that it has all the answers on Biblical interpretation, and that I by going there am some "guide" to everybody else.
I didn't really get that quote either- but to clarify Howard is not a Bishop- those quotes are from someone who works in his office.
I do understand, though, the discussion about Protestant churches using youth groups to "lure" Catholic youth away- again just my personal experience in the Bible Belt.
I just read an interesting article on Mexican Protestants that seem to take the conversion of Catholics as a mission and it is causing strife. I would tend to be concerned with areas where Catholicism is so ingrained in the culture that you are expected to be Catholic and you claim to be Catholic and you practice the rituals but don't have any true faith. But that's a problem in any denomination, I think.
http://www.religion-online.org/showa...asp? le=2086
It's amazing how you get all these different perspectives. Once again, I don't believe that the mission is to "lure" Catholic youth away.
One reason I would have a problem with it is that I only use Scripture to develop my theology.
And in Scripture, it never says that Mary agreed to bear Jesus Christ. She submitted to it. Gabriel did not come ask her, "Will you be with child?" He told her, "You will be with child." (Luke 1:31)
God was not counting upon Mary to bear his Son for him. He chose her for that role.
This gets back to the differences in Catholic vs. Protestant views of works. In the Protestant mind, works are a manifestation of what God has already done in regenerating the sinner. They do not add to the work of Christ; rather, they are a result of the work of Christ.
So to the Protestant, Mary's works add nothing to God's plan of redemption for mankind. She was elected by God into that role. She is highly honored and favored by God in His choosing her for such a blessed role. If she is to be venerated, it is for her obedience. But all the glory for Christ's birth, for his mediating and redeeming role belongs to God. She is not our queen. She is a human being just as you or I am, and she shares in the inheritance of Christ, albeit with especially great honor and reward.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions