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i said
Teams use them to determine their most effective lineups. I agree that they're over-rated on an individual basis though.+/- stats are overrated
I agree.
In the playoff atmosphere tonight, we got a good chance to see how Beno and Barry would play in April. Results?
32 minutes. 0-11 from the field. As many fouls as rebounds and assists combined.
If you can watch them play in this big game and honestly tell yourself that you'd rather have this duo than Corey Maggette, you need to pick a new sport to follow. , I'd trade that duo for any player with a heartbeat who isn't going to crumble under pressure.
How was dinner?
but . . . but . . . If the Spurs do that they won't be able to give Eddie Jones $30 million in 2008!If you can watch them play in this big game and honestly tell yourself that you'd rather have this duo than Corey Maggette, you need to pick a new sport to follow.
Maggette will kill our 'over the hill' swingman cap-room!
From Chris Sheridan chat (via hoopshype, I don't have an espn insider account) :
http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=14160(The Spurs) have made inquiries about Maggette, and if and until he lands elsewhere, I'm told they're going to remain in that mix.
Maggette isn't an outright cancer, so there is little reason for the Clippers (or us) to jump at the first offer. There should be plenty of rumors to come.
At this point if the Spurs don't have Barry and Beno on the table at the very least, RC Buford needs to resign.
By waiting around, Barry's stock has dropped to the point that the Spurs would have to throw in a first rounder to even get the Clippers to answer the phone. The Spurs could've sold Barry high ... but then again, what is the last time in Spurs history that they sold a player high? It's usually a salary dump after the player has sucked so bad that the Spurs don't want to pay their contract anymore.
Here's the whole thing:
Welcome to The Show! On Friday, ESPN.com's NBA reporter Chris Sheridan will chat about the NBA season.
Chris came to ESPN from the Associated Press where he spent the last 10 years as the lead NBA writer.
Sheridan's chat tips off at noon ET on Friday so send in your questions now and join him right here for the answers.
Sheridan archives: Columns | Chats
Chris Sheridan: Greetings from the Chat Room, where they're letting me chat today despite my body fat being over the mandated 11 percent. We'll be bringing Antoine Walker and James Posey around to chat, too, if they continue to follow the Sheridan bacon and hot dogs diet. Your questions, please ...
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Ken (MD): With all the injuries and such, will the heat make it to the play offs this year?
Chris Sheridan: You know, it's starting to look like they'll have a steeper hill to climb than it originally appeared. There are seven teams at .500 or better in the East, and then there's the Atlantic Division winner taking the eighth spot, so it's a matter of how far they're going to have to come back to make it to .500 or so. This six-game trip they're starting figures to put them in a pretty deep hole.
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Gmoney DC: So whats the word on the Nets and trade Rumors? Carter and Kid?
Chris Sheridan: There are a few folks out there who feel Rod Thorn is plotting something big with Vince, but I was out at Nets practice Wednesday morning and spoke with him at length about where they're at and where Vince is at, and Rod sounded as though he's going to be patient with Vince because he's playing at about the same level as he was at this time a year ago. But this will be a big month for the Nets, especially for Vince, and they have a tough schedule with 10 of 15 games on the road. If VC doesn't snap out of whatever funk he's in over the next 4-5 weeks, then I think Rod will sit down with Ratner and tell him it's time to seriously consider a big shakeup.
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dave (toronto): who will be an all-star this year, Luol Deng or Caron Butler? who is more deserving?
Chris Sheridan: Well, theylre both deserving, but there's going to be a squeeze somewhere, and if one of those two gets squeezed out, I'd say it'd be Deng.
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Josh (Winston Salem): When are the Spurs going to finally realize that they need to get a new 3. Bowen is great on D but he is not going to last much longer and a guy like Corey Maggettee would fit in nicely with thier other players.
Chris Sheridan: They've made inquiries about Maggette, and if and until he lands elsewhere, I'm told they're going to remain in that mix.
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Brian (Pasadena, CA): Chris, Nate Robinson got a 10 game suspension for a hard foul on JR Smith because Smith decided to get up and punch him. James Posey got 1 game for a hard intentional foul on Luol Deng where Deng didn't get up and throw a punch. If the NBA is serious about cleaning up its act, how can they crack down harder on intentional fouls if the guy being fouled throws a punch than if the guy being fouled doesn't?
Chris Sheridan: The Nuggets-Knicks fight happened in David Stern's backyard when he wasn't exactly in the best of moods after caving in on the new ball. So the Nuggets and Knicks really did pick the wrong time and the wrong place to pull off that little donnybrook of theirs. Furthermore, Stern veered so far away from precedent that everyone is now screaming for two- and three-game suspensions for hard fouls likee Posey's. We call that the Can of Worms Factor here in Chatland.
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David (NYC): Any complaints about the new (old) ball?
Chris Sheridan: No complaints, but one interesting tidbit: Mitch Lawrence of the Daily News, Al Iannazzone of The Record and myself wre looking over the leather balls in the bin at Nets practice today, and one of them had "Golden State Warriors" stamped on it. Lawrence Frank said they had a Grizzlies ball there, too. Apparantly this is because Spalding called in all the balls all 30 teams had left over from last year, tested them and then redistributed them. I guess the Grizzlies and Warriors had more closet space than the Nets.
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Danny (Sandy, UT): Which player has been the biggest disappointment this season thus far?
Chris Sheridan: You want me to say Andrei Kirilenko, don't you?
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Dave (Charlottesville): Who was the greatest player who's last name was Williams?
Chris Sheridan: Gus.
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Mike (Charlotte): Chris, any chance the Bobcats make another move before the trade deadline?
Chris Sheridan: I'd put it at about a 95-98 percent certainty. They still have more than $11 million in cap room, so they can facilitate three-team trades better than anyone else in the league. I know they're ready to cut the cord on Walter Herrmann (see my last blog entry), who was never a good fit for them, and I know they wouldn't be unhappy to move Brevin Knight for an expiring contract and a draft pick.
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Nathan(nyc): Nate Robinson got suspended because he thought he was at a street game.. and tell the previous questioner that MardyCollins made the foul. Robinson implored JR Smith for a barfight.. he shud have been banned 15 games or more
Chris Sheridan: Lots of posts like yours, Nathan. This one still stirs up the emotions among Knicks and Nuggets fans alike.
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Fahim (LaLa Land): Hey Chris, give some love to my lakers please. how far will they go this year and does kobe have a chance of winning his first MVP? thx
Chris Sheridan: They deserve some after getting such huge shots from Vlade and Smush last night in Sacto. Also was good to see Phil Jackson taking a few potshots at the locals, questioning whether true basketball fans would have voted down a new arena and calling the visiting locker room a "dungeon." I'm not yet ready to say they can get to the conference finals, but I've liked them since the preseason when I picked them to beat the Suns in the Pacific, and I'm even more impressed with how they've done without Lamar. As for Kobe for MVP, that race is about as wide-open as ROY, and I'm not going to opine on it as of yet.
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Dave (Alaska): During his chat yesterday, Chad Ford basically endorsed a Jason Kidd for Devin Harris + Stackhouse + Croshere swap. What's your take, Chris?
Chris Sheridan: Well, if I'm Dallas I'd do it, but if I'm the Nets, where would that leave me a year from now? Trading Kidd would push Carter into opting out, so NJ would have a lineup of Jefferson, Harris, Krstic, Jason Collins and whatever two-guard they got on the free agent market. That team would win about 20 games, so I don't see this one making sense for NJ.
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Dave (Charlottesville): I've noticed that you've already posted 4 Dave's from different places. I want to set the record straight that it's not just one guy claiming to be from different places. We are all individuals. Actually, there's at least two of us. Just setting the record straight so it doesn't seem like we're monopolizing.
Chris Sheridan: It must be my own little subconscious tribute to Dav Pilkey, my household's favorite author. Either that or I'm channeling Dave DeBusschere, who also wants David Lee to start.
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Oliver ( NY): So let me get this straight, Magette wants out, Mo'pete wants out. Toronto wants another scorer and the Clipps a three point shooter, hmmmmmmmm. What am i missing ? Are the clipps holding out for Ray Allen or Paul Pierce or something ?
Chris Sheridan: Well, they thought they were getting Ron Artest for Maggette a year ago, and to settle for MoP and nothing else would be a little too bitter a pill for Elgin to swallow.
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Dan LA: which team is better when everybody is healthy, Nuggets or Lakers?
Chris Sheridan: Tough call, cuz you're talking about adding a healthy Kenyon Martin to the mix (never mind that he hasn't been healthy in 2-3 years) with Iverson, Carmelo and Camby in the mix. So I guess I'd have to say Denver, but if they met in a seven-game series I'm still not sure the Nuggets would be able to beat the Lakers because even at full strength they can't guard Kobe.
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Bill (Miami): If you're the Magic, do you hold your "possible" cap space for the summer and re-up your young core, or would you use Hill's expiring and picks to make a run at someone like Carter or Ray Allen?
Chris Sheridan: You go for Allen first and Carter second if those are truly options that are out there. But I don't think either guy is on the block _ yet.
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Steve (Amherst, OH): Chris, since Aloha boy wouldn't answer my question yesterday maybe you will. What can the Cavs do to get a better PG? Snow is awful.
Chris Sheridan: Teams call them asking about Varejao all the time, but the Cavs can't afford to move him _ and he's the only guy on the roster who can bring a quality PG in return. So you're stuck with Eric and his lousy point production, Steve, but you still have one of the steadiest floor leaders in the NBA leading a team that will need a steadying hand in the playoffs.
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Nate, PA: Should Dwight Howard start over Shaq in the All-Star game? The guys been ballin while Shaq's racking up the pounds on the bench.
Chris Sheridan: Yes, Dwight should get the start, but I don't think the fans will vote him in over The Big Exempt From The Bodyfat Rule Fella.
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Harold (Durham, NC): Where do you see Greg Oden playing next year?
Chris Sheridan: I see him beating Duke in the NCAA le game, Harold, after deciding to stay an extra year at Ohio State. Wouldn't ya like to see that from down in Durham?
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Henry (NY): Do you have any explanation as to why David Lee isn't starting? I know he still plays a lot of minutes anyway but it seems logical to pair up your best rebounding PF with a horrible rebounding center (curry).
Chris Sheridan: I think Lee is a bit of a defensive liability, which is factoring into Isiah's thinking moe than people may realize. But that being said, I'm on board with those you say Lee needs to be starting for the Knicks to succeed. Nobody on that team plays any defense anyway.
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pete(ny): Where do you see Mike Bibby and Rashard Lewis playing next year ?
Chris Sheridan: I think Bibby will decide NOT to opt out simply because he still has so much money coming to him over the final two years of his deal. I think Lewis is a goner from Seattle, and I think there will be about a dozen to 18 teams in the mix for him through a sign-and-trade come July.
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TiM (Pittsburgh): Is McGrady capable of leading the Rockets to the Championship or is his back to much of a factor now that he can only play so many games before he has to sit out?
Chris Sheridan: I spoke to Tracy for a while last week about the treatment he got in Waco from a back specialist who also works with Andy Rod , and McGrady couldn't believe how much better he felt, saying he thought he was going to be out for at least a month. History, however, has shown that McGrady's back goes out of whack time and time again, so I'm going to take a wait-and-see on him over the next 6-8 weeks before I'm ready to say the Rockets are anything near championship material.
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Sandro (arlington, va): Gilbert for MVP! His swag is phenominal!
Chris Sheridan: Lots of Gilbert-MVP posts in the queue today, too, from all over the globe. Like I said before, I don't want to chime in on that race yet cuz it's so wide open, but I'd be doing the ChatLand a disservice if I did not acknowledge that GA seems to be building a groundswell of support.
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PJ Charlotte, NC: Chris: what about Vince to the bobcats for Primo, BK and a #1. gives the Nets some down low play and Vince hasn't been giving much anyways. Cats can try to resign vince to be the leader of a team sporting May Meka Morrison and Felton. Also could just finally change the name to the CLT HEELS =)
Chris Sheridan: It's something to chew on, PJ, and I'm among the believers that Vince would be happier in Charlotte than he is in New Jersey.
Chris Sheridan: And with that, we sign off from Chat Central until next Friday at noon EST.
Yeah, I really hoped Barry would continue to play well to rise his stock. Maybe it is just a bad stretch and he turns it around again. I really really hope the Spurs are still after Maggette...
Thanks Kori.
It will never happen. They need to get younger and quicker. The Smith trade last yr would be huge for us now. The Clips would not take Barry and Beno for Cory. Why would they?
If a 3 game losing streak (first one in I don't know how many years) isn't enough to make the FO wake the up and realize they have to go out and improve this roster, then I don't know what it will take.
I love Bowen, still think he can do the job most nights. However if Dirk, Josh, Bonzi Wells or whoever are having their way with him on the defensive end and if he's clanging 3's or shooting 40% from the FT line on the other end, what good is he?
Finley is flat out worthless and in now way is he deserving of the "big" minutes Pop is giving him. Barry, still a fine shooter and smart player, is inconsistent. Both have the same defensive liabilities.
It's frustrating because it's so ing obvious to most of us who want the Spurs to pull the trigger on the Maggette deal. Maggette is perhaps the most viable option available and you have a desparate trade partner (Clippers) as a bonus. We've already discussed Maggette's strengths and weaknesses ad nauseum. Bottom line is his skills set is what is lacking on this team from that position. Perhaps he can be had on the cheap, maybe not. Perhaps the Spurs are simply playing the "wait til the trade deadline" game.
Sorry folks, I can't stomach all the anti-Maggette talk anymore. If the Spurs were winning games they should win in the fashion we've become accustomed, I could see the point.
The Spurs are delusional if they think this team, the way it is constructed, the collective age of the players, and with its current deficiencies at the wing position, can contend with the likes of the Mavs and Suns. Which means they wont make it out of the West.
If NOT Maggette, the Spurs need someone to replace the OLD DONKEYS Finley, Horry and Vaughn...period...Are you freaking serious?
If the Spurs lose out on Maggette, there is likely not another SF, with his skills, that can be had RIGHT NOW and with a team that is as desparate to make a deal.
spurs need to pull the trigger now before beno and barry's stock drops further. they really can't wait on this one...because i don't see beno and barry playing any better in the future. barry overachieved for a period and is not back to earth and beno has done nothing the entire season. we need some youth and athleticism on this team for god sakes. maggette is the best option right now and would really help.
I don't think the deal was ever Barry + Udrih for Maggette. Probably there was a 2007 first round pick demanded, and we only heard LAC was receptive to any deal.
I was one talking against Maggette, and I still don't see him as any complete savior the way some were making out, but I was intrigued. Despite all the secondary costs of a guy like him, I think the Spurs have to do it. I don't think he's available for that and I don't think the Spurs should give up first round picks anymore, much less this year.
Spurs need to look into this again
Maggette is 4.9 RB career, (he's no Boozer, Marion, Rodman, Hedo)
AST/T0 < 1
29 MPG
He seems fragile, playing only 63 games/season in 7 seasons, missing 25% of the games.
Have people looked at his body and got stars in their eyes that he would really impact the Spurs TEAM defense+rebounding+motivation problems?
He's better than Bruce in scoring+RB, but not in defense.
So for whatever Maggette would add, does it offset what replacing Bruce would lose?
The value of Maggette wouldn't be losing Bruce. I don't see why Bruce gets replaced.Maggette is 4.9 RB career, (he's no Boozer, Marion, Rodman, Hedo
AST/T0 < 1
29 MPG
He seems fragile, playing only 63 games/season in 7 seasons, missing 25% of the games.
Have people looked at his body and got stars in their eyes that he would really impact the Spurs TEAM defense+rebounding+motivation problems?
He's better than Bruce in scoring+RB, but not in defense.
So for whatever Maggette would add, does it offset what replacing Bruce would lose?
We're getting stars in our eyes for Maggette because he's actually athletic and it's been a while since we've seen an athlete in a Spurs' uniform. He'd also stand to fix two of our major problems - rebounding and free throw shooting. Also a third problem we usually have -- stagnant offenses. He'd give us another slasher.
The ostensible cost of Barry+Udrih is not bad, though I doubt that's all it would take, and we'd see at least one very important draft pick go out the window. There are numerous secondary costs (ego, no outside shooting, no defense, injury prone) on top of an expensive, three-year contract.
Hopefully there is another deal on the table other than this one, though I'm sure we'll get some Bostjan Nachbar player buried on the bench instead.
If they signed Maggette, it wouldn't be to replace Bruce. Maggette is more of a SG. He'd backup Bruce and Manu. Or he'd start in place of Manu, so Manu could come of the bench. He's not the answer for the long-term replacement of the small forward spot. He doesn't have the length or defense for that.Maggette is 4.9 RB career, (he's no Boozer, Marion, Rodman, Hedo
AST/T0 < 1
29 MPG
He seems fragile, playing only 63 games/season in 7 seasons, missing 25% of the games.
Have people looked at his body and got stars in their eyes that he would really impact the Spurs TEAM defense+rebounding+motivation problems?
He's better than Bruce in scoring+RB, but not in defense.
So for whatever Maggette would add, does it offset what replacing Bruce would lose?
He'd just be a slasher scorer who can rebound (and plays aggressive enough to get to the line).
"who can rebound"
but statistically, doesn't.
What are you talking about?
How can you say he doesn't rebound?
Name a 6'6 player that rebounds better over the last 4 seasons?
Another thing I like about Maggette is that he is a slasher and Spurs need some slashing at SG/SF.
Barry, Finley, Bowen are jumpshooter and Ginobili is less a slasher than before.
Manu only scored 0.4 less points per game than in 05 while he scored 2.1 less "slashing" points per game (FT+Dunk+Layups).
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