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Oberto, Rigaudeau and Jasikevicius.
Huh? What?
Who are you talking about? Vujacic? Anthony Parker? I THINK the last one is Jasikevicius, but can't be certain.
Cryptic, dude. Too cryptic. Not a lot of fun. 2 stars out of 5.
Oberto, Rigaudeau and Jasikevicius.
Beno and Williams for arroyo + picks
Nah. I'd say Jasikevicius is the only one you were right on there. I suppose you'd pass on Rudy Fernandez or Ricky Rubio, too.
ChumpDumper (correct me if I'm wrong) is just pointing that being the best player in europe doesn't translate for sure in being a good player in nba. After the failure of some "euro stars", being a great player in europe isn't enough to have a good trade value.
However, I think that Scola trade value is still quite high because he is still quite young and he cna be a good player in nba.
It's clear what Chump is trying to say, but putting Scola in the same lead-footed class as Jasikevicius and Oberto is begging the question and being unduly surly. Saras didn't work out not for lack of talent but because of athleticism. Does Scola have that problem? No.
Regarding various comments made about Ollie and Hunter.
1) Ollie is close to done, yes, but he's not cooked yet. He's still better than Beno and a viable backup PG. Although he is slightly overpaid, he's a better value for the money than Finley, who's the same salary bill. I think everyone acknowledges we need to improve our back-up PG spot (either Beno plays better, or we get another guy).
2) Hunter is NOT overpaid. Look around the league at backup centers. He's reasonably productive, young (25 this year), and has physical characteristics that are currently valuable (fast tall guy). He's making 16.5 million over 5 years. This year, that's roughly 3.1 million this year (year 2), up to 3.75 in the final year (year 5) of his contract. That is not overpaid for a center with a PER of 13.7 this year. Centers are paid more than other players...Consider for example, Francisco Elson. Last season PER 10.7, current contract ~ 6 million over 2 years...
3) As far as Hunter's knees go, He tore his ACL in summer 02, and missed the 1st 38 games of the 02/03 regular season (active for 33 games that season). He's played 3 whole seasons (Orlando, 03/04 59 games, Pheonix, 04/05 76 games, Philly, 05/06 69 games) since, with no major problems. I think the Hornets decided that trade was a mistake and used the Knee as an excuse to get out of it...
As I said before, Hunter & Ollie are not going to put us over the top, & they are definitly not worth throwing in Scolas rights as well.
I'd take Beno Udrih over Kevin Ollie at this stage of his career.
Steven Hunter's yearly cost isn't bad, but his contract runs for two years longer than the Spurs would like. It beats the 2008 Plan. He's not better than Francisco Elson, either, although he does block shots.
I certainly hope we don't waste either Barry or Scola on scrubs like these. Serviceable? Yes. Worth our best assets? Absolutely not.
Since we were talking about being a third team in a Chicago/Memphis deal, I thought I would post this here:
link
According to a league source, the Bulls offered a package that includes guard Ben Gordon, forward P.J. Brown and a first round draft pick in return for Gasol, who has requested a trade. The source also said Brown would be included in any trade made before the deadline.
As it has been since the start of the season, an established inside scorer remains atop the Bulls' wish list.
"I don't know how many times I can say that I would like to have a guy like that," said Paxson, who did not mention Gasol by name. "But for the good of the organization and my responsibility to ownership, I can't give too much to get something. We're not in that position right now."
Paxson conceded it would be difficult to part with Gordon and forward Luol Deng in partciular at this time.
The emergence of Deng and Gordon as consistent scorers has been the most positive story line of the season thus far.
"They have more value today than when the season started," Paxson said. "Everybody in this league would love to have Lu Deng and Ben Gordon. I'm glad we have them."
I like both of these deals.
Strangely enough, with a Luol Deng-Ben Gordon for Pau Gasol trade... I think both teams lose out.
I guess it is the strategy of Paxons to get it to: either the Knicks pick, or a second youngstar. word is, the Grizzlies wanted both. (Gordon and Deng + the pick)Paxson conceded it would be difficult to part with Gordon and forward Luol Deng in partciular at this time.
The emergence of Deng and Gordon as consistent scorers has been the most positive story line of the season thus far.
"They have more value today than when the season started," Paxson said. "Everybody in this league would love to have Lu Deng and Ben Gordon. I'm glad we have them."
Scola isn't worth jack to most teams, especially not playoff teams, right now because they won't see the immediate benefit for giving up what they've got.
The smartest thing to do would be to bring him over and let him establish his trade value over the next couple years, while starting at PF for the Spurs. But, I think his value in the off-season will be high enough that he could become a factor in trading up in the '07 draft if the Spurs HAD to make a move.
Oh and Chump....Oberto was a serviceable player in Europe and has said himself that he's nowhere near as talented as Scola.
Last edited by AFBlue; 01-24-2007 at 01:47 PM.
I think, and hope, he'd be worth at least 10 spots in the draft, but we'll see. Below that? Bring him over ourselves.
Some good SF prospects, starter-quality (with time). Corey Brewer, Jeff Green, Thaddeus Young.
This is complete opposite of what Jasikevicius complained about Indiana scheme where he was positioned to be a spot up 3 pointer shooter. Said he favors a ball in his hand, pick-n-roll creator role. Are you sure you got a right player?
You mean Teyshaun Prince, Lamar Odom, and Al Harrington (comparison's courtesy of ESPN and NBADraft.net)? Yeah they'd be great...although the hope is that the Spurs could snag one of them w/o moving up.
If the Spurs could move up to get one though I completely agree with you that it'd be worth it.
Exactly. DX projects Brewer in the lottery, the others later. Young may not come out. Jeff Green... who knows... may be available. Problem is, in the early 20s guys who drop are usually snagged regardless of position, because those are teams that don't need much. If the Spurs are content with pick 28 or 29, they'll wind up with another flawed role player or a project. We need a starter.
But yes, I'd see them trade up with Scola only if "their guy" is available. By accounts they tried to do it last year, but failed, perhaps because Scola was too expensive. I don't know if that's changed. I also don't know if they were after Ronnie Brewer or Sefalosha or what.
I think the root of Scola's trade value issues are with how his game translates to this league. Athletically he's not a bum, and he's an incredibly smart low-post player, but other GMs who may not have watched him closely will have questions about this guy until he comes over here and proves the critics wrong.
That's pretty amazing since this guy has been so consistently dominant (16+ ppg and 5+ rpg for the past 4/5 seasons).
Edit: I honestly think this kid could come over here next year and start alongside Duncan immediately. I think he's more Nocioni/Ginobili than Macijauskas.
A way to move up a few spots w/o giving up Scola is to give up Butler in a trade. Even though the Spurs see him as a long-term project, other teams would play him right away...no doubt.
One mentioned earlier:
Williams + Butler to Magic for Arroyo + filler (Garrity, Re ) + rights to Vazquez with the final condition that they swap 1st rounders (28 to 20ish).... impossible?
Williams for Arroyo. It's simple, low-key, and provides each with a benefit. Arroyo takes over as backup PG and the salary created by Williams expiring contract gives Orlando more of a chance to sign one of the following:
Vince Carter, Rashard Lewis, Gerald Wallace
I don't see Butler worth that much, and not enough to move up spots. Plus, if we trade him during the draft, we'd have to take on equal salary, who then rides the roster the rest of the year (or is bought out). I don't see anybody equitable to that task. Trading Scola's rights is different because he's not been signed yet. Besides, he's a better player right now and probably in the future.
I was speaking more about trading Butler before the 22 Feb deadline and whoever gets him will be able to use him. Just because he rides the pine for the Spurs doesn't mean he would ride it for any other team. Jackie knows how to score and can do so in limited minutes.
EDIT: In the Orlando scenario, he provides the inside scoring they are looking for and hedges against Darko leaving as a restricted FA this off-season.
I don't think anyone would trade or want to swap draft picks so early in the year, with a draft this deep. And I honestly think you're overrating Butler, at least insofar as moving up in the draft.
You seriously think Scola has more trade value than Butler? Scola is still under contract this summer and there's no guarantee he'd come in 2008 even if he's offered a fair deal. Look at Fran Vazquez.
Butler is a quality bigman prospect with a low salary on a short contract.
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