Mahinmi and Scola to meet

[ArgSpursFan]

Garbajosa's value is different than Scola's value to the Spurs because one is on the open market and one isn't.

I thought that a player´s value was Seted by the player´s skills and stats,mostly from his last or current season
Example:beno´s value last year was twicest bigger tham as today,I think.
Eventhough he already has a contract signed two or three years ego.

[ArgSpursFan]

Try reading the thread.

So not only do you want the Spurs to make Scola the highest paid second round draft pick of all time, you want the Spurs to make Javtokas the second highest paid second round draft pick of all time.There's a reason why everything you post about never happens.


Again, that'd make him the highest paid second round draft pick of all-time.

When in reality, Scola is worth in the neighborhood of 3-years, $6M and Javtokas is worth a minimum contract. The Spurs obviously agree with my stance. I don't know anyone who agrees with your take.



I'm being incredibly stupid because I agree with the Spurs about not making Scola and Javtokas the two richest second round draft picks in NBA history?

Thanks.

is it what I´m feeling or you´re getting a little Racist on this Thread ?
cause It looks like you don´t want or HATE a non American player to be the highest paid 2nd. round pick

I´m gonna break something down to you.
Scola signed a 14 M EUROS contract with his actual team.
thats about US$ 28 M , in a country where Soccer is the most popular sport by far.
So if the spurs don´t make it up to him by offering a better contract in order to HELP HIM OUT, to pay the buy out,he won´t come to the NBA.
he doesn´t need Holt´s Alms or charity,cause he´s already rich.

[mountainballer]

Garbajosa's value is different than Scola's value to the Spurs because one is on the open market and one isn't.

and that is the point that makes the Spurs strategy so hard to accept.

a team either uses a 2nd rounder on a young player, sign him immediatly or at least after one year to a small contract and try to develope him.
or
if the team waits 3 or more years, while the player developes somewhere else, they pay him his market value later.
like this category of FAs is payed nowadays. (see Nocioni, Calderon, Garbajosa, Jasikevicious etc.). I bet everyone here would love to see the Spurs pay Nocioni 4 million per year or Calderon 2.3, if they would play for the Spurs right now.

the Spurs strategy is trying to get both advantages. they draft a player (somtimes players who were just in the draft because of the age rule), no matter in they have a buyout (Manu, Scola) and wait for some years how this player developes.
so the risk you have to take in any young player, is left with the other team.
when the player is ready to come, they offer a contract far below the market value, just because they own his rights.
in other words: the worst thing for a player in Europe to happen is to turn 22 and be drafted by the Spurs. this means, he will either never come to the NBA, or lose quite some millions.
does really anybody think this strategy will help the Spurs long term? looking at the Spurs moves of the last years, we can be very thankfull, that Manu is a Spur.
he came here not because of the Spurs wanting him badly because of all his qualities, he came here instead of the Spurs lowballing him.
many people now use this as an argument, why Spurs draftees must not get more than Manu got.

[leemajors]

is it what I´m feeling or you´re getting a little Racist on this Thread ?
cause It looks like you don´t want or HATE a non American player to be the highest paid 2nd. round pick

I´m gonna break something down to you.
Scola signed a 14 M EUROS contract with his actual team.
thats about US$ 28 M , in a country where Soccer is the most popular sport by far.
So if the spurs don´t make it up to him by offering a better contract in order to HELP HIM OUT, to pay the buy out,he won´t come to the NBA.
he doesn´t need Holt´s Alms or charity,cause he´s already rich.

maybe you're just being obtuse. there's no reason to pay scola that much for what he is. it has nothing to do with his nationality.

[ArgSpursFan]

maybe you're just being obtuse. there's no reason to pay scola that much for what he is. it has nothing to do with his nationality.

or may be I´m just being real about it,and while you all think that the spurs would be making Scola a favor by bringing him to the NBA,the real thing is that ,Scola can be the guy that the spurs need to eather buck up Tim Duncan and Also play along with him on the paint and get more points in the paint,something that´s been a real issue this year.

[JPB]

and that is the point that makes the Spurs strategy so hard to accept.

a team either uses a 2nd rounder on a young player, sign him immediatly or at least after one year to a small contract and try to develope him.
or
if the team waits 3 or more years, while the player developes somewhere else, they pay him his market value later.
like this category of FAs is payed nowadays. (see Nocioni, Calderon, Garbajosa, Jasikevicious etc.). I bet everyone here would love to see the Spurs pay Nocioni 4 million per year or Calderon 2.3, if they would play for the Spurs right now.

the Spurs strategy is trying to get both advantages. they draft a player (somtimes players who were just in the draft because of the age rule), no matter in they have a buyout (Manu, Scola) and wait for some years how this player developes.
so the risk you have to take in any young player, is left with the other team.
when the player is ready to come, they offer a contract far below the market value, just because they own his rights.
in other words: the worst thing for a player in Europe to happen is to turn 22 and be drafted by the Spurs. this means, he will either never come to the NBA, or lose quite some millions.
does really anybody think this strategy will help the Spurs long term? looking at the Spurs moves of the last years, we can be very thankfull, that Manu is a Spur.
he came here not because of the Spurs wanting him badly because of all his qualities, he came here instead of the Spurs lowballing him.
many people now use this as an argument, why Spurs draftees must not get more than Manu got.

really good point. Really.

[VaSpursFan]

I thought that a player´s value was Seted by the player´s skills and stats,mostly from his last or current season
Example:beno´s value last year was twicest bigger tham as today,I think.
Eventhough he already has a contract signed two or three years ego.

scola because he was drafted in the second round is bound by the NBA salary structure for draft picks. there is no way to get around this...it's all covered in the NBA collective bargaining agreement. there is a sliding scale for salaries starting with the #1 pick.

now if Scola was a free agent, he's not bound by the restrictions of the agreement in terms of salary structure.

[ArgSpursFan]

scola because he was drafted in the second round is bound by the NBA salary structure for draft picks. there is no way to get around this...it's all covered in the NBA collective bargaining agreement. there is a sliding scale for salaries starting with the #1 pick.

now if Scola was a free agent, he's not bound by the restrictions of the agreement in terms of salary structure.

So you are telling me that the spurs screwed scola,in another words.
But I think 3.5 M p/year is allowed for a second rounder,isn´t it?

[Kori Ellis]

is it what I´m feeling or you´re getting a little Racist on this Thread ?
cause It looks like you don´t want or HATE a non American player to be the highest paid 2nd. round pick

I´m gonna break something down to you.
Scola signed a 14 M EUROS contract with his actual team.
thats about US$ 28 M , in a country where Soccer is the most popular sport by far.
So if the spurs don´t make it up to him by offering a better contract in order to HELP HIM OUT, to pay the buy out,he won´t come to the NBA.
he doesn´t need Holt´s Alms or charity,cause he´s already rich.

You just called timvp racist against non-Americans/Argentineans when he has an Argentinean grandfather?

[Aikita]

You just called timvp racist against non-Americans/Argentineans when he has an Argentinean grandfather?

That's weak. I have an Armenian grandfather, and I just don't like Armenians.
Maybe that's the reason he hates Argentineans.

[Kori Ellis]

That's weak. I have an Armenian grandfather, and I just don't like Armenians.
Maybe that's the reason he hates Argentineans.

Yeah except I'm married to him and I'd know if he hates his (now deceased) grandfather and that part of his heritage.

timvp is Domincan for the most part. He's not of "American" descent and isn't racist against non-Americans. So let's just keep the racist accusations in check. Okay?

[cheguevara]

Yeah except I'm married to him and I'd know if he hates his (now deceased) grandfather and that part of his heritage.

timvp is Domincan for the most part. He's not of "American" descent and isn't racist against non-Americans. So let's just keep the racist accusations in check. Okay?

Dominican? mmm. Kori does timvp dance merengue? if not, he's not really Dominican

[VaSpursFan]

So you are telling me that the spurs screwed scola,in another words.
But I think 3.5 M p/year is allowed for a second rounder,isn´t it?

i wouldn't say screwed. they did their classic draft and stash manuever. all teams are allowed to do this, the spurs just seem to do it a lot.

i'm not sure what the sliding scale for the draft picks are but i would assume somewhere in the $5mill per year range for the #1 pick so...$3.5 million for a second rounder would be too much. A late first rounder might not make $3.5 mill per. again, the agreement clearly spells out the salary scale...i'm not a GM so i can't give you the intimate details.

[Mr. Body]

in other words: the worst thing for a player in Europe to happen is to turn 22 and be drafted by the Spurs. this means, he will either never come to the NBA, or lose quite some millions.
does really anybody think this strategy will help the Spurs long term?

I've made this same point before and people didn't get the point. It probably won't happen often enough for the Spurs to be perceived as not giving market value. The market is just too big for a single team to establish that kind of reputation; there will always be players that want to come to the NBA.

I've also made the point that the Spurs were very happy to take Mahinmi in the late first round and probably would have done so even if they had, say, a pick in the high second round (and he would have stayed in). That is, with that pick they may have recognized the problem of drafting an international player with a second round pick and letting him develop. It's precisely as you say: if he blows up, it gets expensive. So they instead liked the idea of locking Mahinmi into an inexpensive deal so, feeling good about his prospects, once he finally comes over, he'll be just as cheap as when they first drafted him. Of course Mahinmi was there because they asked him to be and he'd be picked in the first round, but there were other motives.

Last draft the Spurs punted, so we don't know what their policy on these picks are now. I could see them take a flier on a European project with a late pick (a Nemanja Aleksandrov type), but they have to know the risk of drafting European projects now. There's a fine line to tread between letting them develop and grabbing them before they're out of your (underwhelming) price range. Scola is clearly worth more money than they (or assorted people on this board) are willing to pay. That's to the team's overall detriment.

[Kori Ellis]

i wouldn't say screwed. they did their classic draft and stash manuever. all teams are allowed to do this, the spurs just seem to do it a lot.

i'm not sure what the sliding scale for the draft picks are but i would assume somewhere in the $5mill per year range for the #1 pick so...$3.5 million for a second rounder would be too much. A late first rounder might not make $3.5 mill per. again, the agreement clearly spells out the salary scale...i'm not a GM so i can't give you the intimate details.

Rookie Scale - 1st pick salary starts at $3.7M. Last pick of the first round (30) starts at $744K. There's no scale for 2nd round picks.

[VaSpursFan]

Rookie Scale - 1st pick salary starts at $3.7M. Last pick of the first round (30) starts at $744K. There's no scale for 2nd round picks.

thanks for clarifying that.

maybe there is no official scale for a second rounder it would set a weird precedent to give a second rounder a yearly salary thats on par with the #1 pick...which is why the spurs won't offer scola that much. but then again i don't know much about the CBA and this may have been done already. all i know, is that the spurs are wise not paying a second draft pick more that a first round draft pick.

[Mr. Body]

thanks for clarifying that.

maybe there is no official scale for a second rounder it would set a weird precedent to give a second rounder a yearly salary thats on par with the #1 pick...which is why the spurs won't offer scola that much. but then again i don't know much about the CBA and this may have been done already. all i know, is that the spurs are wise not paying a second draft pick more that a first round draft pick.

There is no pay scale for second rounders, but I have no idea why people keep confusing Luis Scola with a second round pick. They got him for one years ago, but he's hardly at that level now.

[ArgSpursFan]

You just called timvp racist against non-Americans/Argentineans when he has an Argentinean grandfather?

I don´t think He really cares.+He´s not the only guy in america who has Inmigrants grandparents,or even great grandparents,most of americans do,(exept the natives indians).

[Kori Ellis]

I don´t think He really cares.+He´s not the only guy in america who has Inmigrants grandparents,or even great grandparents,most of americans do,(exept the natives indians).

How about immigrant parents?
To accuse someone of being racist against non-Americans because they don't think Scola is worth more than $2M a year is stupid.

[ArgSpursFan]

How about immigrant parents?
To accuse someone of being racist against non-Americans because they don't think Scola is worth more than $2M a year is stupid.

It´s not just about scola,he brought another non-american second rounder as well,so don´t think this is an american-argentinian discussion
i really felt that non-americans players don´t deserve a chance to get more money tham others.And that includes guys from Argentina,brazil,Servia or from wherever,not just Argentinians.

[cheguevara]

timvp hates argentines cause he thinks argentines only know soccer and beef. get over it or move to another site.

[timvp]

I'm racist against Argentinians and Lithuanians because I can see where the Spurs are coming from?

That is awesome.

I think that Scola's market value is something in the range of $5-6M over three years. I think that Javtokas' market value is the league minimum.

And guess what? The Spurs obviously agree with me. And more than that, NBA history and every current NBA team agrees with me. If Scola was so obviously worth $10-12M, a team would have traded for him and signed him. The Spurs have offered him in trades for a while now and I haven't even heard of a team interested at all.

For the 10th time in this thread I'll repeat that I want Scola on the Spurs. He's an intriguing prospect. However, I can see why the Spurs would be hesitant to give him an unprecedented contract. Same with Javtokas. He would be a Spur right now if he would have come for his market value - a one year, minimum contract.

If it makes me racist to understand why the Spurs didn't cave to Scola's and Javtokas' demands, then I guess I'm racist.

You guys can live in some fairy land where second round picks with no bargaining position get paid as much as the first overall pick the draft, but the Spurs, the rest of the NBA and timvp will live in reality.

[AFBlue]

For the 10th time in this thread I'll repeat that I want Scola on the Spurs. He's an intriguing prospect. However, I can see why the Spurs would be hesitant to give him an unprecedented contract.

Not impressed with anyone on the list???

[ArgSpursFan]

I'm racist against Argentinians and Lithuanians because I can see where the Spurs are coming from?

That is awesome.

.

you are NOt the spurs TIMVP,you are just another fan like me or anybody else.
We´ll see what the spurs think after this season.
peace out

[timvp]

you are NOt the spurs TIMVP,you are just another fan like me or anybody else.
We´ll see what the spurs think after this season.
peace out

Did I say I was the Spurs? I said I can see where the Spurs are coming from.

Are the Spurs racist too?