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  1. #3226
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    This again?

    Risacher is definitely the cleanest fit, but it's not inconceivable they could prefer Dillingham to Ivey and shop the latter while he still probably retains most of the sheen he had.

    Dillingham could easily play with Ball the same way Rozier III did by being able to cross match defensively and interchange offensively.
    Don't see Detroit going for Dillingham in any universe. They're glutted with guards and Ivey is turning a corner.

    Charlotte is a total question mark, but LaMello needs the ball to be effective and Dillingham probably does, too. They're both bad defensively. Doesn't make sense.

    Each team will draft high enough that they'll have other options.

    Really think RD goes in the 6-10 range.

    This draft is simply too flat to think there's a BPA.

  2. #3227
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    It's much more important for the Spurs to draft guys they think will be the best players rather than drafting for any skills. That's not the same thing as going for home-run swings on guys like Poku or Primo. BPA should have built into it a potential curve calibrated for the likely results at any given projection window rather than just the maximum value. For example, the Spurs should judge a player's shooting based on how good that player can become on that end and how quickly and not whether they can currently shoot. The Spurs still have to trust their developmental staff, or they have to get rid of them. They can't keep them but then not believe they'll do the job they say they will.

    The Spurs do not have to be good next year. Fans and ESPN want them to be, but the Spurs actually have to continue putting themselves into the best long-term position, and that might well mean having a somewhat disjointed performance on one or both ends as guys continue to figure things out. If they draft Topic, Collier, Sarr, Buzelis or whoever else, and they can't shoot well next year, it doesn't matter. You want them to be positive contributors or at least show skills that would indicate they will be. If Sarr or Buzelis shows that he's too much for most centers to handle, that's going to add a lot of value to Wemby's growth, because it will make it harder for teams to cross-match a PF on him, since they opponent will be creating another disadvantage, making it harder for the center to come help Victor's man. If the guard is getting into the paint at will, that's going to help Victor by bending the defense, increasing the effectiveness of the PnR, getting bigs in foul trouble, etc.

    Victor is not a finished product, not even in the broad strokes. We don't even know what position Wemby is going to play in his prime, let alone what type of player he's going to be at that position. If he's more of a perimeter player whose paint touches come mostly from slashing and transition, the team is going to need vertical spacing from Wemby's front-court partner or from the guards driving. If Wemby's going to be more of a mid-post iso scorer, the most important thing might just be a "running mate" he can take turns with ala Lebron and Wade/Irving or Durant and Westbrook. If he specs into being a roll-man rim-runner, a lob threat might be useful. If he's going to be a post hub, then spot-up guys and cutters might be more important. We don't know what that's going to be, and this season really hasn't provided clarity in that regard.

    That's why talent (in the BPA sense, not irrespective of intangibles) is the most important criterion. If they draft the most talented player, that player might synergize with Victor and help provide clarity on where he goes on his developmental journey, or that player can become a meaningful piece in an impact trade down the road. I think it's short-sighted to draft with next year's team in mind. There are other ways to create a functional rotation, if that's even the team's goal. The team will not have everything figured out next summer. They don't need to operate under the idea that their pieces have to work together very well right away. There are a lot of paths the team can take to really start the reconstruction process, and they aren't going to all have the same results at specific increments of time.

  3. #3228
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    It's much more important for the Spurs to draft guys they think will be the best players rather than drafting for any skills. That's not the same thing as going for home-run swings on guys like Poku or Primo. BPA should have built into it a potential curve calibrated for the likely results at any given projection window rather than just the maximum value. For example, the Spurs should judge a player's shooting based on how good that player can become on that end and how quickly and not whether they can currently shoot. The Spurs still have to trust their developmental staff, or they have to get rid of them. They can't keep them but then not believe they'll do the job they say they will.

    The Spurs do not have to be good next year. Fans and ESPN want them to be, but the Spurs actually have to continue putting themselves into the best long-term position, and that might well mean having a somewhat disjointed performance on one or both ends as guys continue to figure things out. If they draft Topic, Collier, Sarr, Buzelis or whoever else, and they can't shoot well next year, it doesn't matter. You want them to be positive contributors or at least show skills that would indicate they will be. If Sarr or Buzelis shows that he's too much for most centers to handle, that's going to add a lot of value to Wemby's growth, because it will make it harder for teams to cross-match a PF on him, since they opponent will be creating another disadvantage, making it harder for the center to come help Victor's man. If the guard is getting into the paint at will, that's going to help Victor by bending the defense, increasing the effectiveness of the PnR, getting bigs in foul trouble, etc.

    Victor is not a finished product, not even in the broad strokes. We don't even know what position Wemby is going to play in his prime, let alone what type of player he's going to be at that position. If he's more of a perimeter player whose paint touches come mostly from slashing and transition, the team is going to need vertical spacing from Wemby's front-court partner or from the guards driving. If Wemby's going to be more of a mid-post iso scorer, the most important thing might just be a "running mate" he can take turns with ala Lebron and Wade/Irving or Durant and Westbrook. If he specs into being a roll-man rim-runner, a lob threat might be useful. If he's going to be a post hub, then spot-up guys and cutters might be more important. We don't know what that's going to be, and this season really hasn't provided clarity in that regard.

    That's why talent (in the BPA sense, not irrespective of intangibles) is the most important criterion. If they draft the most talented player, that player might synergize with Victor and help provide clarity on where he goes on his developmental journey, or that player can become a meaningful piece in an impact trade down the road. I think it's short-sighted to draft with next year's team in mind. There are other ways to create a functional rotation, if that's even the team's goal. The team will not have everything figured out next summer. They don't need to operate under the idea that their pieces have to work together very well right away. There are a lot of paths the team can take to really start the reconstruction process, and they aren't going to all have the same results at specific increments of time.
    asking for another tank is unacceptable,Heads need to roll if we do this again.Just shows what a gm wright
    is if we go thru this again.

  4. #3229
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    There is no BPA. If there is a draft where there is little difference between picking 1 or 8, this is it. A higher pick just means you get your personal team favorite and, yes, perhaps a somewhat better chance of hitting, but it's going to be minuscule. Sure, you could say Risacher deserves a higher pick than Sheppard, but I defy you for thinking he'll actually plan out at a higher rate of outcomes. More to the point, at any point in the top ten it will probably be impossible to designate a single best player over what is available.

  5. #3230
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    The whole BPA vs. best fit endless debate is almost nonexistent for Spurs' pick this year. This draft might not be that great but it has an obvious edge for Spurs: almost all top picks are good to great fit for them. Risacher, Dillingham, Topic, Sheppard and Buzelis fit well to very well with Spurs.

    BPA vs. best fit is just limited to one player for Spurs pick: Alexandre Sarr.

    If Spurs get Raptors' pick, it will be more of a question for that pick, especially since you will have to consider how the two picks are fitting together.

  6. #3231
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    His body type always seemed weird to me... his legs more so than anything, it's like he's got a larger torso, arms and neck, and shorter legs. Not really sure what to make of it, probably nothing, just a curiosity.
    If that is the case, that's a great protype for an NBA PG. Low center of gravity, but still great length.

  7. #3232
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    asking for another tank is unacceptable,Heads need to roll if we do this again.Just shows what a gm wright
    is if we go thru this again.
    Wright is just the person tasked with executing whatever plan PATFO have put together. Anyone who thinks Wright is the general formulating strategy is naive.

  8. #3233
    The Boognish FuzzyLumpkins's Avatar
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    The whole BPA vs. best fit endless debate is almost nonexistent for Spurs' pick this year. This draft might not be that great but it has an obvious edge for Spurs: almost all top picks are good to great fit for them. Risacher, Dillingham, Topic, Sheppard and Buzelis fit well to very well with Spurs.

    BPA vs. best fit is just limited to one player for Spurs pick: Alexandre Sarr.

    If Spurs get Raptors' pick, it will be more of a question for that pick, especially since you will have to consider how the two picks are fitting together.
    Sarr is the best fit is you want to run two bigs. The Spurs recently found out that surrounding him with length, agility, and range worked better than 2 bigs.

    I don't see the fit or the BPA argument.

  9. #3234
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    Don't see Detroit going for Dillingham in any universe. They're glutted with guards and Ivey is turning a corner.

    Charlotte is a total question mark, but LaMello needs the ball to be effective and Dillingham probably does, too. They're both bad defensively. Doesn't make sense.

    Each team will draft high enough that they'll have other options.

    Really think RD goes in the 6-10 range.

    This draft is simply too flat to think there's a BPA.
    They balanced their roster at the trade deadline, have max cap space and are expected to pursue Harris and Bridges to fill their hole at starting PF.

    With Thompson and Fontecchio at or capable of playing SF and Cunningham being a wing defensively, I wouldn't count on it, but I can see a scenario where they pass on Risacher.

    If the Hornets and them land where projected, I would think they wouldn't select Dillingham, but this has the potential to be a crazy draft.

  10. #3235
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    asking for another tank is unacceptable,Heads need to roll if we do this again.Just shows what a gm wright
    is if we go thru this again.
    Tanking and losing are different things. The Spurs probably shouldn't tank, but they don't have to "try" for the playoffs either. The Thunder only won three mores games in Durant's second year before going nuclear in his third. It's important to grab the talent when you have the chance, and too many people are trying to rush the process. The key is to not waste the position the team is in. They have the ability to draft at least one of the seven best players coming out. It's important that they come away with someone good.

    There is no BPA. If there is a draft where there is little difference between picking 1 or 8, this is it. A higher pick just means you get your personal team favorite and, yes, perhaps a somewhat better chance of hitting, but it's going to be minuscule. Sure, you could say Risacher deserves a higher pick than Sheppard, but I defy you for thinking he'll actually plan out at a higher rate of outcomes. More to the point, at any point in the top ten it will probably be impossible to designate a single best player over what is available.
    Players are not dice. They don't have an a priori probability of working out. Whether the Spurs slot Risacher ahead of Sheppard comes down to what roadmap the scouts and developmental staff can draw up for the players. If they consider Topic's shot something fixable, his shooting isn't really going hold him back. If they think Collier has a rare talent for scoring inside the paint, they might think he can help them even if the shooting takes longer to come along. It's okay for us to believe the draft is flat, but the Spurs can't choose to build through the draft and take such a layman approach to their board. They have to believe they know how to figure out these differences and put together plans for whomever they pick. Building through the draft while believing it's a crapshoot is how you get a guy like Hinkie who'd take this team to levels of incompetence Spurs fans don't believe are possible.

    This is where the FO needs to make its money. That doesn't mean they can never make a mistake ever, but they put themselves in the position and need to be able to see it through.


    The whole BPA vs. best fit endless debate is almost nonexistent for Spurs' pick this year. This draft might not be that great but it has an obvious edge for Spurs: almost all top picks are good to great fit for them. Risacher, Dillingham, Topic, Sheppard and Buzelis fit well to very well with Spurs.

    BPA vs. best fit is just limited to one player for Spurs pick: Alexandre Sarr.

    If Spurs get Raptors' pick, it will be more of a question for that pick, especially since you will have to consider how the two picks are fitting together.
    I get what you're saying, but I don't know that everyone in this thread would agree with that. I think some really do think Sarr, Topic, Buzelis and Collier shouldn't be on the board because of their "fit" with a Wemby-centric offense. My point is that if the Spurs had the fourth pick in a clone 2008 draft where you know how everyone is going to turn out, you pick Westbrook and not trick yourself into picking Gordon or Augustin because you're worried about "fit". I'm not calling anyone in this draft a Westbrook. I'm saying you chase the talent (again in a BPA sense where you factor in athleticism, size and intangibles) and not worry about fit with a Wemby who's still amorphous in relation to where he's going to be. The team can and should acquire veteran players who can help establish a functional environment. But that shouldn't be a constraint for a team looking at what could be their last top-five pick for another long while.

  11. #3236
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    The potential #1 pick only plays 13 mpg in the NBL playoffs? Not exactly encouraging.

  12. #3237
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    Sorry WHAT.

    He has the same wingspan as Rissacher, while having twice the skills. Draft this man ASAP.
    If we are liking some wingspan, how about those Kawhi-like stats from Cody Williams?

  13. #3238
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    If we are liking some wingspan, how about those Kawhi-like stats from Cody Williams?
    What stats

  14. #3239
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    Tanking and losing are different things. The Spurs probably shouldn't tank, but they don't have to "try" for the playoffs either. The Thunder only won three mores games in Durant's second year before going nuclear in his third. It's important to grab the talent when you have the chance, and too many people are trying to rush the process. The key is to not waste the position the team is in. They have the ability to draft at least one of the seven best players coming out. It's important that they come away with someone good.



    Players are not dice. They don't have an a priori probability of working out. Whether the Spurs slot Risacher ahead of Sheppard comes down to what roadmap the scouts and developmental staff can draw up for the players. If they consider Topic's shot something fixable, his shooting isn't really going hold him back. If they think Collier has a rare talent for scoring inside the paint, they might think he can help them even if the shooting takes longer to come along. It's okay for us to believe the draft is flat, but the Spurs can't choose to build through the draft and take such a layman approach to their board. They have to believe they know how to figure out these differences and put together plans for whomever they pick. Building through the draft while believing it's a crapshoot is how you get a guy like Hinkie who'd take this team to levels of incompetence Spurs fans don't believe are possible.

    This is where the FO needs to make its money. That doesn't mean they can never make a mistake ever, but they put themselves in the position and need to be able to see it through.




    I get what you're saying, but I don't know that everyone in this thread would agree with that. I think some really do think Sarr, Topic, Buzelis and Collier shouldn't be on the board because of their "fit" with a Wemby-centric offense. My point is that if the Spurs had the fourth pick in a clone 2008 draft where you know how everyone is going to turn out, you pick Westbrook and not trick yourself into picking Gordon or Augustin because you're worried about "fit". I'm not calling anyone in this draft a Westbrook. I'm saying you chase the talent (again in a BPA sense where you factor in athleticism, size and intangibles) and not worry about fit with a Wemby who's still amorphous in relation to where he's going to be. The team can and should acquire veteran players who can help establish a functional environment. But that shouldn't be a constraint for a team looking at what could be their last top-five pick for another long while.
    There is no BPA. That's what I keep saying. There is not a point in the first eight picks where a person could legitimately say one player is the pick over any other.

    If you pick first, there is no clear and obvious BPA.

    Take whoever is picked at one off the board. Whoever is picking second does not see a clear and obvious best player available.

    And so on.

    This draft is completely subjective throughout the lottery.

    Now, if you want to say who is the most talented player who may not fit teams, that's Dillingham. But the question marks are high enough that many teams will pass on him.

  15. #3240
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    If we are liking some wingspan, how about those Kawhi-like stats from Cody Williams?
    cody is slower and weaker then leonard

  16. #3241
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    There is no BPA. If there is a draft where there is little difference between picking 1 or 8, this is it. A higher pick just means you get your personal team favorite and, yes, perhaps a somewhat better chance of hitting, but it's going to be minuscule. Sure, you could say Risacher deserves a higher pick than Sheppard, but I defy you for thinking he'll actually plan out at a higher rate of outcomes. More to the point, at any point in the top ten it will probably be impossible to designate a single best player over what is available.
    For this reason, in many respects (and we've discussed this before) I'd rather have #5 and #8 than #1 and #7. The latter is going to be more expensive, but more importantly it might force you into taking a prospect you don't really like that much (Sarr, Risacher, Topic) just because you're in that range (note: I have no idea who the Spurs actually like of course, I'm just not a huge fan of those three in particular, personally. I'd rather have Dilly + Matas than Sarr + Collier, for example).

  17. #3242
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    Comment is only in regard to William's wingspan, that was the context of the post being addressed.

  18. #3243
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    cody is slower and weaker then leonard
    Irrelevant to a post about wingspan - which the only context to that post.

  19. #3244
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    Comment is only in regard to William's wingspan, that was the context of the post being addressed.
    Oh, I guess I don't think of those as stats.

  20. #3245
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    For this reason, in many respects (and we've discussed this before) I'd rather have #5 and #8 than #1 and #7. The latter is going to be more expensive, but more importantly it might force you into taking a prospect you don't really like that much (Sarr, Risacher, Topic) just because you're in that range (note: I have no idea who the Spurs actually like of course, I'm just not a huge fan of those three in particular, personally. I'd rather have Dilly + Matas than Sarr + Collier, for example).
    I'm the same. I don't really want a top three pick because they're going to be a expensive role players at best.

  21. #3246
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    Oh, I guess I don't think of those as stats.
    Yeah, me either - but that was the context. Wingspan is pretty far down the list of ranking criteria for me, well after you pass the "can you play basketball" test

  22. #3247
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    For this reason, in many respects (and we've discussed this before) I'd rather have #5 and #8 than #1 and #7. The latter is going to be more expensive, but more importantly it might force you into taking a prospect you don't really like that much (Sarr, Risacher, Topic) just because you're in that range (note: I have no idea who the Spurs actually like of course, I'm just not a huge fan of those three in particular, personally. I'd rather have Dilly + Matas than Sarr + Collier, for example).
    Fortunately, as we've seen with the 2021 draft, I don't think the front office cares about what "consensus" is and are going to take the player they like regardless, rather than be forced to take a player based on draft position. They had no issue with the perception of reaching for Josh Primo in the lottery when consensus had him much lower.

    Unfortunately, as we've seen with the 2021 draft, their talent evaluation capability may be as they ended up drafting Josh Primo, so it may not matter anyway.

  23. #3248
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    For all the fans of Risacher, Topic, Dilllingham, Matas, and Sarr here, I'm going to laugh when the Spurs end up getting a top 3 draft pick and take Ron Holland as the entire board melts down

  24. #3249
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    Fortunately, as we've seen with the 2021 draft, I don't think the front office cares about what "consensus" is and are going to take the player they like regardless, rather than be forced to take a player based on draft position. They had no issue with the perception of reaching for Josh Primo in the lottery when consensus had him much lower.

    Unfortunately, as we've seen with the 2021 draft, their talent evaluation capability may be as they ended up drafting Josh Primo, so it may not matter anyway.
    I hated the Primo pick. Sengun was so obvious, but... everyone passed on him for some reason.

    Ignoring Sengun, Primo wasn't a bad pick, really. At the time the only real obvious player left was Trey Murphy, and he wasn't entirely great at Virginia.

    Primo was starting to be impactful for a veteran Alabama team and was the youngest player in the draft. He had a great combine. He had nice skills and showed his stuff during Summer League.

    His first year was shaky, but we see that with most very young players. By now, of course, his career is basically over. He lost two years of development, among the other stuff. It's impossible to say what he could have become. But as for the pick itself, not knowing the future, it really wasn't terrible. That draft was really weak.

  25. #3250
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    For all the fans of Risacher, Topic, Dilllingham, Matas, and Sarr here, I'm going to laugh when the Spurs end up getting a top 3 draft pick and take Ron Holland as the entire board melts down
    Ok

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