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  1. #3351
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    I'm kinda considering Castle's value to the team reading all this. I agree with the statement that Fox and Castle aren't really the best backcourt pairing. Kon would actually fit better, but Kon, Jackucionis, or even De Larrea would fit well with Fox or Castle in a rotation while we figure out if Castle or Fox is part of our core. Personally, I agree with you that Wemby is the only untradable on this team. That said, I would only trade Castle in a bigger deal. I wouldn't trade him for picks (unless whoever gets #1 is dumb enough to make Cooper available).
    Personally, I still like the idea of the Fox/Castle/Wemby core. It's different than the NBA meta right now, but I don't think that means it can't work. Like I mentioned in my response to KobesAchilles about 3PT shooting, I think Fox and Castle will be threatening enough of 3PT shooters to provide effective spacing, and Wemby is such a unique tool that I think it's kind of silly to apply the league wide meta to a team that includes him, because no other team has him.

    I do think that a certain archetype of wing is important to add to the backcourt of Fox and Castle. Both are guys who want to, and are effective (Fox certainly so, Castle is a bit more of a projection) at getting in the paint and scoring. Wemby's natural tendency has been to move to the perimeter, often pulling the opposing big with him, which is going to create space for Fox and Castle going towards the bucket. Fox and Castle in the PnR and inverted PnR with Wemby will be very nice. I'd also like to see Fox and Castle in the PnR with each other with Wemby and our other wings coming from an off-the-ball screen to a 3pt shooting spot.

    Unfortunately, the ideal wings are pretty hard to come by... I want guys who can shoot the 3, rebound and defend. Most wings in the league are good at only 2 of the 3. Even high end versions of this idealized wing, guys like Naz, are only good at 2/3 (Naz isn't a great rebounder). Lauri is a the Ferrari of this archetype... poor defender. Maybe the ideal is that you find a guy who is primarily 3+D and only okay rebounding and the other guy is 3+Reb and okay but not great on defense?

    Edit: just wanted to add I realize there are a lot of different ways to build this team. This is my personal favorite at this moment but I'm by no means suggesting this is the only way.

  2. #3352
    俺はまんこが大好きなんだよ baseline bum's Avatar
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    It would be interesting to consider where Danny Green would go in a modern draft. Three-and-D prospects aren't easy to find in college because the diffuse talent pool means guys will often play positions above where they'll end up in the pros. Danny's senior year at UNC, he shot 41 percent from three on seven attempts per 40. His advanced stats were pretty strong as well. With teams still in the mindset that shooting could be outsourced and three-and-D wings being all the rage, you'd expect Green to have been taken higher. But he was a mid-second-rounder. History says Danny was definitely underdrafted -- dude ended up being a top-10 player in what was a pretty decent draft class. But the marks against him were seen as too big for him to overcome. Maybe with today's focus on shooting, Green could have been drafted much higher. But then I think about Harrison Ingram, who last year had a number of superficial similarities to 2009 Green. He was drafted at around the same spot that Danny was, so maybe it wouldn't have made a difference.

    That's all to say that if the Spurs felt like some prospect was going to be the next Danny Green, it's definitely worth it to draft him at 13/14 and probably at 8 as well. Green was insanely valuable in multiple systems. Actual great role-players are worth their weight in gold. This class as a distressing number of non-shooters at the top of the board. I'd honestly feel uncomfortable if the Spurs drafted yet another guy who's a project in that area. The only position where I think that's okay is for the back-up center spot, but you'd ideally want a good roadmap toward good shooting in those cases as well to leave open the chance that prospect could play some minutes with Wembanyama.

    I personally see all five positions as open in this draft. The team needs rotational guards, wings, forwards and bigs, and if you add in the potential of them trading some rotation players in another attempt to improve the top-end talent, then even the current locks are up for discussion. There are a couple of players who seem like good sixth-man candidates, and that's important if the Spurs are going to move on from Johnson and/or Vassell within the next couple of years. I also think they should take the backup center spot seriously and both draft a center and sign a vet this summer. Whether that vet is an MLE signing or a min guy would depend on whether they draft a center in the lottery or in the second round.

    I also think they should consider how much they want to bank on Castle being a real piece going forward. In my opinion, he is the clear ROY winner and has some nice potential. But he was extremely inefficient on both ends. On one hand, he might have that "it" factor. On the other hand, it's going to be hard for the team to seriously compete with Castle starting and shooting as poorly as he usually does. I think the team has another year of figuring things out ahead of it, but if they do decide to try to take a step forward, and Castle can provide the bulk of the value for a third star, it could make sense to move him and focus on shooters to fill out the starting lineup.
    I look at Castle as a necessity because SGA and Luka aren't going away any time soon and the Spurs are going to need a big defensive guard to throw on these guys in the playoffs from the next 8-10 years. Someone who can deal with their strength. But unless he becomes a league average shooter it means the Spurs are going to have to have shooting at both the SF and PF.

  3. #3353
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    I also think they should consider how much they want to bank on Castle being a real piece going forward. In my opinion, he is the clear ROY winner and has some nice potential. But he was extremely inefficient on both ends. On one hand, he might have that "it" factor. On the other hand, it's going to be hard for the team to seriously compete with Castle starting and shooting as poorly as he usually does. I think the team has another year of figuring things out ahead of it, but if they do decide to try to take a step forward, and Castle can provide the bulk of the value for a third star, it could make sense to move him and focus on shooters to fill out the starting lineup.
    Agreed. I'm not sold on Castle period, let alone his fit alongside Fox. I doubt he'll start next season (On This Season And Looking Ahead To The Off Season), but it really doesn't matter because they'll obviously play plenty together anyway.

    The last thing they need is Wembanyama being relegated to floor spacer for two inefficient guards with "alpha" tendencies.


    Yeah the only pick I'd be wedded to would be if they get #1, obviously you take Flagg. But if they luck into 2-4 I'd rather trade with someone who really wants Harper, Edgecombe, Maluach, or Bailey.
    Even if, as projected, they don't move into the top 4, their natural pick should be put into play for a young veteran starter.

    rankingtear's idea of Murray would be ideal. A team that doesn't have a 1st, needs a PG (of course, at least one of Fears or Jakucionis would need to be available) and has a new GM who'll probably be looking to make a splash.


    I look at Castle as a necessity because SGA and Luka aren't going away any time soon and the Spurs are going to need a big defensive guard to throw on these guys in the playoffs from the next 8-10 years. Someone who can deal with their strength. But unless he becomes a league average shooter it means the Spurs are going to have to have shooting at both the SF and PF.
    Wing-forward size/strength is needed to be a credible Doncic defender. He bullies even the strongest guards, which is why the Celtics went Brown as the primary over Holiday in the Finals.

    Even if Castle becomes a good enough shooter for defenses to not disregard, Fox and him will likely top out as a - shooting back court, which means they'll need a + shooting forward tandem anyway.

  4. #3354
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    Wasserman just updated his mock. He has Spurs pick Tre Johnson at #8, describing the scenario, that Tre falls, because Teams ahead go with Fears, Queen and Maluach. So Spurs go BPA at that point. At #14 Spurs pick CMB and at #38 Alex Toohey. I like the Tre pick, not so much the other two.

  5. #3355
    Remember Cherokee Parks The Truth #6's Avatar
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    Personally, I still like the idea of the Fox/Castle/Wemby core. It's different than the NBA meta right now, but I don't think that means it can't work. Like I mentioned in my response to KobesAchilles about 3PT shooting, I think Fox and Castle will be threatening enough of 3PT shooters to provide effective spacing, and Wemby is such a unique tool that I think it's kind of silly to apply the league wide meta to a team that includes him, because no other team has him.

    I do think that a certain archetype of wing is important to add to the backcourt of Fox and Castle. Both are guys who want to, and are effective (Fox certainly so, Castle is a bit more of a projection) at getting in the paint and scoring. Wemby's natural tendency has been to move to the perimeter, often pulling the opposing big with him, which is going to create space for Fox and Castle going towards the bucket. Fox and Castle in the PnR and inverted PnR with Wemby will be very nice. I'd also like to see Fox and Castle in the PnR with each other with Wemby and our other wings coming from an off-the-ball screen to a 3pt shooting spot.

    Unfortunately, the ideal wings are pretty hard to come by... I want guys who can shoot the 3, rebound and defend. Most wings in the league are good at only 2 of the 3. Even high end versions of this idealized wing, guys like Naz, are only good at 2/3 (Naz isn't a great rebounder). Lauri is a the Ferrari of this archetype... poor defender. Maybe the ideal is that you find a guy who is primarily 3+D and only okay rebounding and the other guy is 3+Reb and okay but not great on defense?

    Edit: just wanted to add I realize there are a lot of different ways to build this team. This is my personal favorite at this moment but I'm by no means suggesting this is the only way.
    Sounds like you're making a case for Fleming. Lol.

  6. #3356
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    Personally, I still like the idea of the Fox/Castle/Wemby core. It's different than the NBA meta right now, but I don't think that means it can't work. Like I mentioned in my response to KobesAchilles about 3PT shooting, I think Fox and Castle will be threatening enough of 3PT shooters to provide effective spacing, and Wemby is such a unique tool that I think it's kind of silly to apply the league wide meta to a team that includes him, because no other team has him.

    I do think that a certain archetype of wing is important to add to the backcourt of Fox and Castle. Both are guys who want to, and are effective (Fox certainly so, Castle is a bit more of a projection) at getting in the paint and scoring. Wemby's natural tendency has been to move to the perimeter, often pulling the opposing big with him, which is going to create space for Fox and Castle going towards the bucket. Fox and Castle in the PnR and inverted PnR with Wemby will be very nice. I'd also like to see Fox and Castle in the PnR with each other with Wemby and our other wings coming from an off-the-ball screen to a 3pt shooting spot.

    Unfortunately, the ideal wings are pretty hard to come by... I want guys who can shoot the 3, rebound and defend. Most wings in the league are good at only 2 of the 3. Even high end versions of this idealized wing, guys like Naz, are only good at 2/3 (Naz isn't a great rebounder). Lauri is a the Ferrari of this archetype... poor defender. Maybe the ideal is that you find a guy who is primarily 3+D and only okay rebounding and the other guy is 3+Reb and okay but not great on defense?

    Edit: just wanted to add I realize there are a lot of different ways to build this team. This is my personal favorite at this moment but I'm by no means suggesting this is the only way.
    If Castles shooting and D improve (and he has the tools) then i can see him fitting with Fox in the backcourt. It's the 3 and 4 positions I'm struggling with. We don't have anyone on the roster thats a longer term fit at the 3 or 4 if Castle is in the SL. Obviously Naz would be a great fit, AD would as well, but I doubt we could get either. Maybe John Collins is in that next tier that's gettable. Then you've got rookies that fit... Liam McNeely would be the best 3 we could realistically get in this draft. Fleming and Bryant would be next with Fleming being a 4 and Bryant a bit of a 3/4 who I think will develop into a 4.

    Another option, if we think Castle can be a full time 3 is putting a guy like Kon or Jackucionis between he and Fox. Something like that would balance the SL.

  7. #3357
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    I look at Castle as a necessity because SGA and Luka aren't going away any time soon and the Spurs are going to need a big defensive guard to throw on these guys in the playoffs from the next 8-10 years. Someone who can deal with their strength. But unless he becomes a league average shooter it means the Spurs are going to have to have shooting at both the SF and PF.
    It should be noted that right now, Castle's defense has been as ineffective as his shooting. That should change with experience, but it's not like good defenders have the same learning curve as scorers. Good role-players are usually good from jump street. I think the Spurs should continue to believe in Castle's potential there, but it's also possible that a guy like Knueppel could start at that position and immediately be a better defender as well as a better shooter. One thing that Sochan is showing us is that perimeter defense doesn't work like it used to. That's obvious for Jeremy's old-school bully-D, but it might also be true for 2010s WingStop-esque D. Finding a guy who can match up with Luka and SGA might not be as important to an elite defense as getting five to eight guys who can stay coordinated and not foul.

  8. #3358
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    If Castles shooting and D improve (and he has the tools) then i can see him fitting with Fox in the backcourt. It's the 3 and 4 positions I'm struggling with. We don't have anyone on the roster thats a longer term fit at the 3 or 4 if Castle is in the SL. Obviously Naz would be a great fit, AD would as well, but I doubt we could get either. Maybe John Collins is in that next tier that's gettable. Then you've got rookies that fit... Liam McNeely would be the best 3 we could realistically get in this draft. Fleming and Bryant would be next with Fleming being a 4 and Bryant a bit of a 3/4 who I think will develop into a 4.

    Another option, if we think Castle can be a full time 3 is putting a guy like Kon or Jackucionis between he and Fox. Something like that would balance the SL.
    I like the idea of Castle at the SF. I’m not sure why there resistance to that idea other than the players statement from last year that he sees himself as a PG. He’s got the physical profile.

    And as you say, it would give more options to address the SG via draft.

    Fox
    Dev (until supplanted by draftee)
    Castle
    Naz
    Wemby

  9. #3359
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    Sounds like you're making a case for Fleming. Lol.
    If the shoe fits, but I do not proclaim to know enough about Fleming to make that case for (or against) him. I'm kind of down on this draft overall and haven't put forth a ton of effort as a result but I'm relying upon my ST.com brethren to keep my educated on these kids.

  10. #3360
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    If Castles shooting and D improve (and he has the tools) then i can see him fitting with Fox in the backcourt. It's the 3 and 4 positions I'm struggling with. We don't have anyone on the roster thats a longer term fit at the 3 or 4 if Castle is in the SL. Obviously Naz would be a great fit, AD would as well, but I doubt we could get either. Maybe John Collins is in that next tier that's gettable. Then you've got rookies that fit... Liam McNeely would be the best 3 we could realistically get in this draft. Fleming and Bryant would be next with Fleming being a 4 and Bryant a bit of a 3/4 who I think will develop into a 4.

    Another option, if we think Castle can be a full time 3 is putting a guy like Kon or Jackucionis between he and Fox. Something like that would balance the SL.
    I mostly would like to see gravitate towards wings who are more of 3/4s than 2/3s (like we seem to have deployed Vassell this year, or what it would look like to deploy Castle as a 3).

    If we did want to run with more of a "3 guard" lineup (whereby Castle was pushed to the 3 or some one like Vassell or any other 2/3 type wing) then I think we almost need to look to a 4/5 at the other forward spot, but ideally one who can shoot (so John Collins and not CMB, for example).

    I am intrigued by someone like CMB, but I just don't know how he works with the rest of our players. With that said, I think Fox and Castle will still ultimately provide enough spacing that maybe it can work? IDK. Certainly I'm fearful of backup units where we do some like run out Wesley/Keldon/Sochan/CMB/Biyombo or something else ridiculous and act surprised when we can't score.

    I'm trying to give more faith to the FO to assemble a functional roster, even though they really haven't demonstrated they can... but they've made good picks the last two years (though easier to do when you pick 1 and 4) and have generally made some good moves (Barnes, Fox). So I'm just gonna sit back and see how it all comes together. Certainly I have my opinions and preferences, but Brian still has never called to ask about my analytics so I'm guessing they still aren't going to

  11. #3361
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    It should be noted that right now, Castle's defense has been as ineffective as his shooting. That should change with experience, but it's not like good defenders have the same learning curve as scorers. Good role-players are usually good from jump street. I think the Spurs should continue to believe in Castle's potential there, but it's also possible that a guy like Knueppel could start at that position and immediately be a better defender as well as a better shooter. One thing that Sochan is showing us is that perimeter defense doesn't work like it used to. That's obvious for Jeremy's old-school bully-D, but it might also be true for 2010s WingStop-esque D. Finding a guy who can match up with Luka and SGA might not be as important to an elite defense as getting five to eight guys who can stay coordinated and not foul.
    Notable that Castle's Darko D-DPM history is almost directly inversely correlated with his Darko O-DPM. Steph showed promise on the defensive end to start the season, but as soon as he started to be relied upon more on the offensive end, the D went to the crapper. I'm hoping that maybe it was just a matter of having to do too much too soon and that he can return to being closer to a positive defender as his offensive load is reduced... but we'll see. He certainly has the tools and was billed as a high end defender coming out of UCONN... but then again, Devin was also billed a high end defender and then fell off a cliff on that end as his offensive game developed.




  12. #3362
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    First off, welcome back.

    Second, I think this is a really fascinating discussion. On the surface, it makes a lot of sense. If you had a Crystal Ball and KNEW a player would have the exact outcome of peak Spurs Danny Green, then I agree... you absolutely take him at 8.

    On the flip side... who is the modern day version of Danny Green? Just based on a quick, superficial glance at Crafted's best 3&D SF's (https://craftednba.com/player-traits/three-n-dee), and looking exclusively at guys under 28, we come up with this list:

    Herb Jones
    Jaden McDaniels
    OG Anunoby
    Haywood Highsmith (note: 28 years old)
    Isaac Okoro
    Vit Krejci
    Deni Advija
    Jake LaRavia
    Justin Champagnie
    Christian Braun

    I think there is a fair question over whether you could acquire any of these guys for less, and have a "sure thing" (though not all of these guys are nearly as good as Danny was). There are a handful of guys who would probably cost you more (probably a lot more) than the #8 pick (OG, Herb, Advija). McDaniels I think would be close, considering that MIN would probably want to get off that contract if they can considering how hamstrung they are with their cap situation.

    We can likely outright sign LaRavia for less than the MLE if we wanted him (and I do). Everyone else, I think their teams likely jump at a swap for the #14 pick, let alone the #8 pick.

    Makes you think about whether its best to take a gamble that your #8 or #14 will reach the level of OG, Herb, Deni... or whether you're better off just acquiring the sure thing. I don't have a strong opinion right now... could go either way. It's a fascinating thought experiment. When I have more time I'll want to dig into deeper to the current 3&D wings around the league and marinate on this a little more.
    That's why I was talking about Harrison Ingram, who had some similarities to Green, including having his lack of elite explosiveness cap his projected ceiling. He was drafted in about the same spot as Green. Like if a guy were good shooter with strong metrics who also happened to be 6-8 and could leap out of the gym, that guy is probably a lotto pick even as an upperclassmen. Danny had good size for a wing, and his experience playing PF gave him more of a chance against bigger players than his frame suggested. But he was still not ideal wing size, and his age probably made his upside seem more capped than it was. That's what separates him from a guy like Mikal Bridges. Peak Danny was a better player than Bridges likely will be, but his age and size made it seem like Mikal was definitely the better bet going forward.

    I don't think it was irrational for a guy like Green to not be a high pick, though in retrospect, he would have made a ton of sense as a late-first selection, and I think that's where he'd go in a modern draft. I think teams have realized that getting four cheap years of a role-player is good no matter where your team is. I don't think that was really understood, even 10 years ago, which is how the Spurs were able to clean up with so many picks in the 20s. My point is more that floor matters a lot more than a lot of fans seem to think. The Spurs can take a project when it makes sense, but they shouldn't clog their rotation with guys like that. That's how they still have Wesley and Branham on the team. I would really like for them to see the guys who can immediately play winning basketball again. Besides Wemby, obviously, the last guy who was a decent role-player from go was Tre Jones. That's a lot of picks since then with guys who are still trying to prove (or who has failed to prove) they can be key contributors to a compe ive team.

  13. #3363
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    That's why I was talking about Harrison Ingram, who had some similarities to Green, including having his lack of elite explosiveness cap his projected ceiling. He was drafted in about the same spot as Green. Like if a guy were good shooter with strong metrics who also happened to be 6-8 and could leap out of the gym, that guy is probably a lotto pick even as an upperclassmen. Danny had good size for a wing, and his experience playing PF gave him more of a chance against bigger players than his frame suggested. But he was still not ideal wing size, and his age probably made his upside seem more capped than it was. That's what separates him from a guy like Mikal Bridges. Peak Danny was a better player than Bridges likely will be, but his age and size made it seem like Mikal was definitely the better bet going forward.

    I don't think it was irrational for a guy like Green to not be a high pick, though in retrospect, he would have made a ton of sense as a late-first selection, and I think that's where he'd go in a modern draft. I think teams have realized that getting four cheap years of a role-player is good no matter where your team is. I don't think that was really understood, even 10 years ago, which is how the Spurs were able to clean up with so many picks in the 20s. My point is more that floor matters a lot more than a lot of fans seem to think. The Spurs can take a project when it makes sense, but they shouldn't clog their rotation with guys like that. That's how they still have Wesley and Branham on the team. I would really like for them to see the guys who can immediately play winning basketball again. Besides Wemby, obviously, the last guy who was a decent role-player from go was Tre Jones. That's a lot of picks since then with guys who are still trying to prove (or who has failed to prove) they can be key contributors to a compe ive team.
    Rasheer Fleming: 6'9", 240 lbs, (alleged) 7'5" wingspan, 39% 3pt shooter, 1.5 blks, 1.4 stls, 4.5 OBPM, 3.1 DBPM, 7.7 BPM.


  14. #3364
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    That said, I do think the best course of action would be to trade the picks for proven players.

    It's not being talked much but the "process" phase is over with the Spurs. Anything other than a playoffs birth for next season would be a huge failure and would start putting a lot of heat into the Wemby era.

    Wemby's third year, the move for Fox, the fact that we need to finish above the Hawks for the swap to mean anything. The Spurs can not miss the playoffs under any cir stance next year, and I don't think keeping this core, adding a couple of rookies and a free agent would get it done. They absolutely need to add two starting forwards, a rotation guard, and a backup center.

  15. #3365
    Ford is the Best in Texas scottspurs's Avatar
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    2025 NBA Draft Board



    • Cooper Flagg - franchise potential
    • Derik Queen - all-star potential
    • Dylan Harper - all-star potential
    • VJ Edgecombe - all-star potential
    • Ace Bailey- all-star potential
    • Kasparas Jakucionis- all-star potential
    • Tre Johnson- all-star potential
    • Asa Newell- starter potential
    • Kon Knueppel- starter potential
    • Rasheer Fleming - starter potential
    • Khaman Maluach- starter potential
    • Thomas Sorber- starter potential
    • Nique Clifford - starter potential
    • Nolan Traore- starter potential
    • Noa Essengue- starter potential
    • Jase Richardson- starter potential
    • Jeremiah Fears - starter potential
    • Egor Denim- starter potential
    • Yaxel Lendeborg - starter potential
    • Walter Clayton Jr. - starter potential
    • Kam Jones- starter potential
    • Cedric Coward - starter potential
    • Joan Beringer- Project
    • Collin Murray-Boyles- role player
    • Liam McNeely - role player
    • Adou Thiero - role player
    • Sergio De Larrea- role player
    • Will Riley- role player
    • Isaiah Evans - role player
    • Sion James - role player
    • Bogoljub Markovic- Project
    • Johni Broome- role player
    • Danny Wolf- role player
    • Hansen Yang- role player
    • Noah Penda- role player
    • Koby Brea- role player
    • Chaz Lanier - role player
    • Carter Bryant- role player
    • Rocco Zikarsky- Project
    • Maxime Raynaud- role player
    • Ryan Kalkbrenner- role player
    • Vladislav Goldin- role player
    • Cameron Carr-developmental
    • Alex Condon - developmental
    • Miles Byrd - developmental
    • Boogie Fland - developmental
    • Labaron Philon- developmental
    • Tahaad Pettiford- developmental
    • Tobi Lawal- developmental
    • Darrion Williams- developmental
    • Milos Uzan - developmental
    • Tyrese Proctor - developmental
    • Alex Toohey- developmental
    • Hugo Gonzalez- draft and stash
    • Ben Saraf- draft and stash
    • John Tonje - developmental
    • Ryan Nembhard - developmental
    • Eric Dixon - developmental
    • Mark Sears - developmental
    • Kobe Johnson - developmental
    • Jaxson Robinson - developmental
    • Micah Peavy- developmental
    • Alex Karaban-developmental
    • Izan Almansa- developmental
    • Xavian Lee - developmental
    • Ian Jackson - developmental
    • Michael Ruzic- draft and stash
    • Johann Grunloh- draft and stash
    • Mouhamed Faye- draft and stash
    • Mo Diawara- draft and stash
    • Flory Bidunga- developmental



    Board with ceiling potentials


    Final Board until Measurables/Athletic testing or until I get more film on international guys


    I watch a lot of college basketball so I have a better feel for those guys. I went back and watched the guys I was unsure about again. I’ve looked at all the analytics. Now I’ve watched at least some of every international prospect.


    1st time I’ve ever put a board together so we will see how good or bad it turns out lol

  16. #3366
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Notable that Castle's Darko D-DPM history is almost directly inversely correlated with his Darko O-DPM. Steph showed promise on the defensive end to start the season, but as soon as he started to be relied upon more on the offensive end, the D went to the crapper. I'm hoping that maybe it was just a matter of having to do too much too soon and that he can return to being closer to a positive defender as his offensive load is reduced... but we'll see. He certainly has the tools and was billed as a high end defender coming out of UCONN... but then again, Devin was also billed a high end defender and then fell off a cliff on that end as his offensive game developed.



    That's why having a system and a clarity of vision is so important. Vassell might be a good defender if he can lock in, yes. But he might be able to lock in more if the team had a cohesive scheme on that end. DeJounte Murray excelled defensively when he was surrounded by good defenders and part of a legit scheme. Devin flashed when the tattered remains of that competent defense was still present. We haven't really seen that since, and we should be able to see it given the personnel on the roster already. Devin's the kind of guy who can get deflections off ball rather than a stopper, so getting guards who can at least get beat in predictable situations would help a lot. But there's almost no excuse for anyone to sleep on D anymore. No ball-watching. No leaking out. Fox/Wemby/Vassell should be able to score well enough as a trio to where none of them should feel the need to save their energy on the other end.

    I'd like to see a rangy forward and smart, versatile wing added to them. I imagine that's why some love Fleming so much. I am kind of hoping that Houston makes a big trade and Jabari Smith shakes free. As an expiring who hasn't quite put it together, he seems like a decent option. The question would be if he's at a place where he can accept being a super role-player rather than trying to be a star. If so, he might be a perfect fit next to Wemby with his size, shooting potential and experience going up against centers to take advantage of cross-matches. I would like to see the Spurs doing something like Sochan, Branham and 13/14 for him. I'm still partial to Knueppel for the other spot, though a guy like DiVincenzo or Hart would also fit. Then you trade a million second-rounders and cash to buy one of Brooklyn's late firsts to snag Walter Clayton to be the long-term backup PG or potential Fox replacement if Castle proves himself. Then you use 38 to grab a center prospect and then the MLE to actually address the position. Let's slot in Ryan Kalkbrenner and Santi Aldama for now.

    This would be the roster:

    Fox, Clayton, Wesley
    Knueppel, Castle, Champangie,
    Vassell, Johnson, Minix
    Smith, Barnes, Ingram
    Wembanyama, Aldama, Kalkbrenner

    I think some people might hate that Johnson manages to survive on the team yet another season in this scenario, but unless the other team is cool with taking Johnson's extra salary. Maybe if the Spurs trade for Middleton instead of Smith, they could clear out Keldon's salary. But that's for a different scenario.

  17. #3367
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    2025 NBA Draft Board



    • Cooper Flagg - franchise potential
    • Derik Queen - all-star potential
    • Dylan Harper - all-star potential
    • VJ Edgecombe - all-star potential
    • Ace Bailey- all-star potential
    • Kasparas Jakucionis- all-star potential
    • Tre Johnson- all-star potential
    • Asa Newell- starter potential
    • Kon Knueppel- starter potential
    • Rasheer Fleming - starter potential
    • Khaman Maluach- starter potential
    • Thomas Sorber- starter potential
    • Nique Clifford - starter potential
    • Nolan Traore- starter potential
    • Noa Essengue- starter potential
    • Jase Richardson- starter potential
    • Jeremiah Fears - starter potential
    • Egor Denim- starter potential
    • Yaxel Lendeborg - starter potential
    • Walter Clayton Jr. - starter potential
    • Kam Jones- starter potential
    • Cedric Coward - starter potential
    • Joan Beringer- Project
    • Collin Murray-Boyles- role player
    • Liam McNeely - role player
    • Adou Thiero - role player
    • Sergio De Larrea- role player
    • Will Riley- role player
    • Isaiah Evans - role player
    • Sion James - role player
    • Bogoljub Markovic- Project
    • Johni Broome- role player
    • Danny Wolf- role player
    • Hansen Yang- role player
    • Noah Penda- role player
    • Koby Brea- role player
    • Chaz Lanier - role player
    • Carter Bryant- role player
    • Rocco Zikarsky- Project
    • Maxime Raynaud- role player
    • Ryan Kalkbrenner- role player
    • Vladislav Goldin- role player
    • Cameron Carr-developmental
    • Alex Condon - developmental
    • Miles Byrd - developmental
    • Boogie Fland - developmental
    • Labaron Philon- developmental
    • Tahaad Pettiford- developmental
    • Tobi Lawal- developmental
    • Darrion Williams- developmental
    • Milos Uzan - developmental
    • Tyrese Proctor - developmental
    • Alex Toohey- developmental
    • Hugo Gonzalez- draft and stash
    • Ben Saraf- draft and stash
    • John Tonje - developmental
    • Ryan Nembhard - developmental
    • Eric Dixon - developmental
    • Mark Sears - developmental
    • Kobe Johnson - developmental
    • Jaxson Robinson - developmental
    • Micah Peavy- developmental
    • Alex Karaban-developmental
    • Izan Almansa- developmental
    • Xavian Lee - developmental
    • Ian Jackson - developmental
    • Michael Ruzic- draft and stash
    • Johann Grunloh- draft and stash
    • Mouhamed Faye- draft and stash
    • Mo Diawara- draft and stash
    • Flory Bidunga- developmental



    Board with ceiling potentials


    Final Board until Measurables/Athletic testing or until I get more film on international guys


    I watch a lot of college basketball so I have a better feel for those guys. I went back and watched the guys I was unsure about again. I’ve looked at all the analytics. Now I’ve watched at least some of every international prospect.


    1st time I’ve ever put a board together so we will see how good or bad it turns out lol
    You mean "ceiling" for next season only? If not, I don't see how Carter Bryant doesn't have, at least, "starter potential" somewhere down the line.

  18. #3368
    Ford is the Best in Texas scottspurs's Avatar
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    You mean "ceiling" for next season only? If not, I don't see how Carter Bryant doesn't have, at least, "starter potential" somewhere down the line.
    That’s his potential nba trajectory for me. I just didn’t see enough of him on the court to believe he can be a starter in the NBA. I could be wrong because he showed flashes but something is off. He might be one of those guys that looks the part but isn’t able to put it all together mentally. I really don’t know! Seems like to big of a risk for a 1st rounder

  19. #3369
    My Girl's a Hooper keithington1's Avatar
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    Essengue Wolf Beringer to me would be the ideal draft for the Spurs needs.

  20. #3370
    Ford is the Best in Texas scottspurs's Avatar
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    Essengue Wolf Beringer to me would be the ideal draft for the Spurs needs.
    Essengue would be a little high at 8! Wolf could be had at 14, but Beringer won’t make it to the 2nd round. He is a project but has the type of athletic potential that teams will take a chance on in the 15-25 range. Would not be surprised if the Hornets picked him in the top 10 because why the F not seems to be their strategy

  21. #3371
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    Appreciate the thoughts Chinook, though I personally hate that roster construction. I have no problems with Keldon carrying on as a bench player, but IMO Vassell is not a 3, Aldama is not a 5 (and certainly has earned more than being a backup 5 to Wemby), and you're relegating the reigning ROTY to a bench player in favor of an unproven Knueppel. Who knows how it would actually all fit together, but this looks like a lineup to me that gets abused on the perimeter but has fairly decent interior defense... of course I could be completely wrong.

    If you made almost of those exact moves, I'd actually situate it to more like:

    Fox, Clayton, Wesley
    Castle, Vassell, Knueppel
    Aldama, Johnson, Champagnie
    Smith, Barnes, Ingram
    Wembanyama, TBD, Kalkbrenner

    My disdain of Vassell is well do ented, but I'd try to move off him and see if I can't bring back a useful backup big, and elevate Knueppel up the depth chart. Vassell and Keldon are completely incompatible - so either one would have to go with the other taking the reigns as 6th man/primary bench scorer. Aldama and Smith give me lots of length to go with shooting at the wings. Both Santi and Jabari grade out very high in Krishna Narsu's defensive versatility rating over on bballindex (79th percentile for Santi, 97th percentile for Jabari). When perimeter speed gets a little too much, you can switch out Vassell (if you keep him) or Champ to try and keep up a little better. While I just said Santi isn't a 5, he could fill in (along with Jabari) in small ball lineups at the 5.

    So that roster has some potential, I just wouldn't deploy them the way you have here.

    Santi has long been high on my list of targets... I'm hoping MEM decides to completely blow it up and we can make a run at him.

  22. #3372
    Ford is the Best in Texas scottspurs's Avatar
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    I wonder if the Spurs could trade Vassell to the Rockets if their pick ended up at 9. Like a trade up player swap. They need scoring/shooting and Udoka would be able to unlock whatever defensive potential he has left. Something like Vassell and pick 14 for Dillon Brooks and pick 9. We could have our choice of best shooter and big left at 8-9. Rockets could pick someone like Sorber at 14.

  23. #3373
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    That's why having a system and a clarity of vision is so important. Vassell might be a good defender if he can lock in, yes. But he might be able to lock in more if the team had a cohesive scheme on that end. DeJounte Murray excelled defensively when he was surrounded by good defenders and part of a legit scheme. Devin flashed when the tattered remains of that competent defense was still present. We haven't really seen that since, and we should be able to see it given the personnel on the roster already. Devin's the kind of guy who can get deflections off ball rather than a stopper, so getting guards who can at least get beat in predictable situations would help a lot. But there's almost no excuse for anyone to sleep on D anymore. No ball-watching. No leaking out. Fox/Wemby/Vassell should be able to score well enough as a trio to where none of them should feel the need to save their energy on the other end.

    I'd like to see a rangy forward and smart, versatile wing added to them. I imagine that's why some love Fleming so much. I am kind of hoping that Houston makes a big trade and Jabari Smith shakes free. As an expiring who hasn't quite put it together, he seems like a decent option. The question would be if he's at a place where he can accept being a super role-player rather than trying to be a star. If so, he might be a perfect fit next to Wemby with his size, shooting potential and experience going up against centers to take advantage of cross-matches. I would like to see the Spurs doing something like Sochan, Branham and 13/14 for him. I'm still partial to Knueppel for the other spot, though a guy like DiVincenzo or Hart would also fit. Then you trade a million second-rounders and cash to buy one of Brooklyn's late firsts to snag Walter Clayton to be the long-term backup PG or potential Fox replacement if Castle proves himself. Then you use 38 to grab a center prospect and then the MLE to actually address the position. Let's slot in Ryan Kalkbrenner and Santi Aldama for now.

    This would be the roster:

    Fox, Clayton, Wesley
    Knueppel, Castle, Champangie,
    Vassell, Johnson, Minix
    Smith, Barnes, Ingram
    Wembanyama, Aldama, Kalkbrenner

    I think some people might hate that Johnson manages to survive on the team yet another season in this scenario, but unless the other team is cool with taking Johnson's extra salary. Maybe if the Spurs trade for Middleton instead of Smith, they could clear out Keldon's salary. But that's for a different scenario.
    I like some of this, and dislike some of it.

    Love the Walter Clayton Jr call. The best pairing to go with Castle in my opinion is this exact archetype 3 point bombing combo guard - last year it was Sheppard (who probably isn't trigger happy enough tbh) and McCain, this year Jase sort of fits but WCJ is easily the best bang for the buck relative to anticipated draft position

    Like Kalkbrenner as a second round 4th big - 7'1" guys who know how to play in general are defensive positives; combine that with high level interior scoring and it's a virtual guarantee that he's going to be a decent rotation big like Luke Kornet, perfect 4th-5th big

    Unfortunately I think the Knueppel/Vassell/Smith lineup probably lacks the physicality that I want without making up for it in basketball IQ. This lineup really leaves you weak on the boards to maximize static spacing for Fox. I like the FoxKon pairing a lot, but if you're playing JSJ at the 4, I'd want a guy who's a bit more physical than Vassell who can also attack a closeout. Not sure who that would be yet though. Ideally a bigger Keldon who's undergone a brain transplant.

  24. #3374
    Ford is the Best in Texas scottspurs's Avatar
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    So Spurs would draft Kon Knueppel and Asa Newell and add Dillon Brooks. Rockets who are deep at the forward position would move off Brooks in order clear the way for a better shooter and scorer in Vassell and draft a more Defensive banger Center that could do some of the things Steven Adams does. Someone like Sorber or Danny wolf or Johni Broome would fit well with Sengun. I think it could benefit both teams

  25. #3375
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    The Jabari Smith talk is great. I’ve long been advocating for him as the perfect complement to Wemby. Good defender/spacer who doesnt need the ball to be useful (his ball handling is poor).

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