NBC ending Leno's nightly prime-time show

[Clandestino]

i disagree. Conans lead in will be better. Fox is pretty much the highest rated primetime network right now. Conan will most likely be shown at 11pm directly after the local news which is directly after awesome FOX primetime shows. Jay Leno killed Conan's lead in by losing to other networks at the 10pm slot thus lowering ratings for the 11pm NBC news.

for the majority of americans conan just isn't funny. it won't matter if he comes after the super bowl. they won't watch him.

[balli]

for the majority of americans conan just isn't funny. it won't matter if he comes after the super bowl. they won't watch him.

That is simply not true. There might be a few malcontented individuals who go out of their way to label him 'unfunny' and who would specifically avoid watching his show. But that is a very few people and those people are fools and jackasses. I'd say most people are ambivalent about him.

Leno on the other hand, is hated, but not by the majority. And likewise, I think a lot of people are ambivalent about him and will watch his show. However, the difference now is that me and plenty of other people would rather get stabbed in the eyeball with a rusty screwdriver rather than watch that big chinned pander to whoever he can.

Conan doesn't have a cadre of people who hate him. Leno does. Both men probably have the backing of a sizable portion of people who don't care either way; of course Jay will do better amongst this crowd; he's carefully engineered himself for 'broad appeal' and will pander to any and every person/corporate interest he can. He's made for ambivalent rubes and there are plenty of them out there. Hardly makes him the better comedian. It makes him a manipulative success. At least monetarily.

[Das Texan]

For whatever its worth Conan's ratings were bad in the summer when you cant blame Jay for it.

At least in terms of his compe ion.


I think the blame of Jay Leno as lead in for Conan is overall weak.

[Cane]

Jay Leno is like The Simpsons - people say he's done, people on the internet hate on 'em all the time (in response during their recent anniversary special The Simpsons staff pretty much diss the interwebs), yet he still pulls in respectable ratings/$$$ and is the more mainstream friendly show than South Park or King of the Hill.

Conan would be like Futurama. Definitely more niche, quirky, and ended much too soon for internet fans. Conan's crowd are the type that are much more susceptible to wasting time on forums (ie younger) but lack the numbers, money, and/or drive to actually make the show successful while it was on the air.

Coco's official NBC forums are interesting to check out due to all this hoopla. His finale was epic but overall his The Tonight Show run has been lackluster and really the past two years kind of sucked as a Conan fan (and he's my favorite host). Andy Richter was a bad decision and he created even more unfunny moments of awkwardness even on the last frigging show! First it was the stupid podium-moving joke (basically a WTF moment and Conan called it) and then he brought out the flask and as he was trying to do something funny and steal some spotlight the camera quickly shifted back to Hanks and Conan. Awkward moments are great if they're funny like they used to be when it was just Max and Joel...Andy is a black hole of late night.

Ranting over.

[balli]

For whatever its worth Conan's ratings were bad in the summer when you cant blame Jay for it.

At least in terms of his compe ion.


I think the blame of Jay Leno as lead in for Conan is overall weak.

I'll blame him for it all day. I just don't think ratings matter. At all. Conan's ratings could have been half of what they were, a third even. You don't can a guy after 7 months. It doesn't matter what his ratings were- he didn't get a fair shake either way.

Literally, until this happened, people were still coming onto his show and saying things like, 'I haven't had a chance to say welcome to LA yet' or 'Wow, the new set looks great'.

His show was in its very infancy. Ratings should have been the last thing he was judged on, 7 months in. Like someone else pointed out, Leno got curbstomped by Letterman for several years. He got more than 7 months and a ty lead in to try to turn it around though. And guess what? He did. Too bad Conan wasn't afforded anywhere near the same level of support from NBC.

[Cane]

Its unreasonable to want the same treatment that your predecessor had especially in the realm of TV. Back when Leno was going through his own ratings woes - it was a much different climate with far fewer options for the audience to choose from. Coco was faced in a situation where NBC was experimenting with primetime and was losing money badly - no way in do they go back in time and pretend it was the ing 90's (compare American cars from the early 90's to today for another perspective). Nowadays the pie is divided up into very small slices and there are even other pies (Mmmmm) to pick from like HULU and Tivo.

Also, Coco's show was doing bad even before Leno's was on air. Not only that but his show and humor was neutered by trying to adapt to a more mainstream audience; he lost his own appeal by not being anywhere near as edgy and having lame ass Andy Richter on board.

As a fan I wished Coco would've just signed on to half an hour later that way he still has a show and can go back to his roots. After playing "Free Bird" on his finale it looks like thats what he was going to do anyway - "this bird you cannot change".

[Das Texan]

I'll blame him for it all day. I just don't think ratings matter. At all. Conan's ratings could have been half of what they were, a third even. You don't can a guy after 7 months. It doesn't matter what his ratings were- he didn't get a fair shake either way.

Literally, until this happened, people were still coming onto his show and saying things like, 'I haven't had a chance to say welcome to LA yet' or 'Wow, the new set looks great'.

His show was in its very infancy. Ratings should have been the last thing he was judged on, 7 months in. Like someone else pointed out, Leno got curbstomped by Letterman for several years. He got more than 7 months and a ty lead in to try to turn it around though. And guess what? He did. Too bad Conan wasn't afforded anywhere near the same level of support from NBC.

So if ratings dont matter, why blame Jay Leno's show as a bad lead in.

You know since ratings dont matter.

[balli]

So if ratings dont matter, why blame Jay Leno's show as a bad lead in.

You know since ratings dont matter.

Because I hate Jay and think he is partially responsible for the bad ratings. That doesn't mean I think those ratings should have mattered or that Conan didn't deserve more time, regardless.

You're confusing the difference between my idealism and the reality of what happened. Of course ratings mattered. That's why Conan's out after 7 months. Doesn't mean they should have mattered.

[Cane]

Of course ratings mattered. That's why Conan's out after 7 months. Doesn't mean they should have mattered.

It definitely matters, thats what the TV business is all about. Coco left at his own choice, he wasn't really outted. Instead he got worked up over his ego and timeslot elitism and pulled a Sarah Palin on NBC and us fans.

I do agree that NBC, in hindsight, should've handled things differently but there are no time travel machines unfortunately. A few years ago they were at risk of losing both Leno and Conan and thats how Conan got The Tonight Show in the first place. They should've let Conan go and stick with their leader in ratings except they didn't realize Leno would still be king by the time it was Coco's turn. Thing is though, NBC still wanted Coco despite the ratings failures but O'Brien seems to be going through a midlife crisis.

[Das Texan]

Because I hate Jay and think he is partially responsible for the bad ratings. That doesn't mean I think those ratings should have mattered or that Conan didn't deserve more time, regardless.

You're confusing the difference between my idealism and the reality of what happened. Of course ratings mattered. That's why Conan's out after 7 months. Doesn't mean they should have mattered.

What did you want Jay to do?

He never wanted to give up the Tonight Show, that was an NBC thing.

NBC didnt want to lose Jay so they said, have this show at 10. Jay woulda gone to another network once he was forced out of the Tonight Show, and he woulda destroyed both Conan and Letterman in ratings.

NBC asked Jay to take the 1035 slot back, when the affiliates were unhappy, mind you the ratings for Jay's show was exactly what NBC exec's forecasted.

Jay gets a of a lot more than he deserves in all of this.

The real blame lies on NBC and how they handled this going all the way back to 2004.

Is Jay totally blameless, I"m sure he isnt.

But is Conan totally blameless, I'm sure he isnt.

[balli]

What did you want Jay to do?

He never wanted to give up the Tonight Show, that was an NBC thing.

NBC didnt want to lose Jay so they said, have this show at 10. Jay woulda gone to another network once he was forced out of the Tonight Show, and he woulda destroyed both Conan and Letterman in ratings.

NBC asked Jay to take the 1035 slot back, when the affiliates were unhappy, mind you the ratings for Jay's show was exactly what NBC exec's forecasted.

Jay gets a of a lot more than he deserves in all of this.

The real blame lies on NBC and how they handled this going all the way back to 2004.

Is Jay totally blameless, I"m sure he isnt.

But is Conan totally blameless, I'm sure he isnt.

It's not like I'm letting NBC off the hook, but no, I don't think Conan has a thing to answer for. Not one thing.

In terms of what Jay should have done- I think Letterman can explain it better than I can:

[jacobdrj]

I loved the Bugatti Veyron Mouse to the theme of Satisfaction...

That was awesome...

[TheMACHINE]

I think the blame of Jay Leno as lead in for Conan is overall weak.

Uh...Jay Leno's lead-in to the local news is the reason this whole happened. Weak my ass.

[Das Texan]

Uh...Jay Leno's lead-in to the local news is the reason this whole happened. Weak my ass.

Umm Conan got beat by Letterman in the ratings before Jay's show started.

[Das Texan]

It's not like I'm letting NBC off the hook, but no, I don't think Conan has a thing to answer for. Not one thing.

In terms of what Jay should have done- I think Letterman can explain it better than I can:

So Conan is totally 100% blameless in this whole ordeal. His show was perfect, there was nothing wrong with anything he did.

You are blind.


We'll see what happens with wherever Conan goes to. Think he will beat Letterman then? If not, then who is getting thrown under the bus to make the excuse for Conan for you?

[MiamiHeat]

That is simply not true. There might be a few malcontented individuals who go out of their way to label him 'unfunny' and who would specifically avoid watching his show. But that is a very few people and those people are fools and jackasses. I'd say most people are ambivalent about him.

Leno on the other hand, is hated, but not by the majority. And likewise, I think a lot of people are ambivalent about him and will watch his show. However, the difference now is that me and plenty of other people would rather get stabbed in the eyeball with a rusty screwdriver rather than watch that big chinned pander to whoever he can.

Conan doesn't have a cadre of people who hate him. Leno does. Both men probably have the backing of a sizable portion of people who don't care either way; of course Jay will do better amongst this crowd; he's carefully engineered himself for 'broad appeal' and will pander to any and every person/corporate interest he can. He's made for ambivalent rubes and there are plenty of them out there. Hardly makes him the better comedian. It makes him a manipulative success. At least monetarily.

blah blah blah

I hate Conan.

I love Jay

You are wrong. The majority of america does not think Conan is funny, period. They don't want to watch his immature humor. The ratings speak for themselves. Now stop hanging around drunk college kids. They don't cons ute the real world.

[CubanMustGo]

blah blah blah

I hate Conan.

I love Jay

You are wrong. The majority of america does not think Conan is funny, period. They don't want to watch his immature humor. The ratings speak for themselves. Now stop hanging around drunk college kids. They don't cons ute the real world.

Since the 'majority of America' doesn't watch any single program, late night or otherwise, you can just as well claim that 'the majority of America thinks that Jay is a back-stabbing, tired, unoriginal hack.' After all, the ratings speak for themselves.

[fraga]

blah blah blah

I hate Conan.

I love Jay

You are wrong. The majority of america does not think Conan is funny, period. They don't want to watch his immature humor. The ratings speak for themselves. Now stop hanging around drunk college kids. They don't cons ute the real world.

The majority of America likes Glenn Beck...Sarah Palin and Fox News...what does that say about America... :S

[balli]

blah blah blah

I hate Conan.

I love Jay

You are wrong. The majority of america does not think Conan is funny, period. They don't want to watch his immature humor. The ratings speak for themselves. Now stop hanging around drunk college kids. They don't cons ute the real world.

You'd happily eat at Country Home Kitchen over Ruth's Chris Steak House. And then call yourself an epicurean for being in the majority.

You'd watch MMA and call it more complex and engaging than the NBA finals. You'd then claim you were the world's most discriminating sports viewer.

You'd see Reno 911 Miami and say it should win an Oscar over Michael Clayton. Because of this, you think of yourself as a scholarly film buff.

You watch Friends. (As IM astutely pointed out) You are proud of this.

You'd watch Jay Leno instead of Conan O'Brien.

Rube.

[easjer]

So Conan is totally 100% blameless in this whole ordeal. His show was perfect, there was nothing wrong with anything he did.

You are blind.


We'll see what happens with wherever Conan goes to. Think he will beat Letterman then? If not, then who is getting thrown under the bus to make the excuse for Conan for you?

No, but it was the fact that the affiliates rebelled at the low ratings Leno brought in (regardless of whether or not they were what NBC projected - the affiliates were bleeding money because of Leno's ratings) that prompted the network to pull Leno's show.

That then set the spiral in motion. The mention of ratings in relation to Conan had nothing to do with his show being moved back. That was in response to the outcry over what was happening.

NBC thought they could get away with not paying out either contract and keep them both and simply move things around and Conan refused to let the Tonight Show - an ins ution of American television for 6 decades - be tarnished like that.

You can disagree with that decision all you want, you can decide it was self-serving or wrong or whatever, but Conan's ratings were a non-issue until this whole mess blew up in NBC's face and they were scrambling to find a reason to cover themselves.

As for the ratings speaking for themselves, well, they did. The ratings took a huge rise while this was occurring and Conan's last live show garnered nearly unprecedented shares - better than either Leno or Letterman. So I guess somebody was watching after all.

[exstatic]

Team CoCo needs to walk it off.

[MiamiHeat]

As for the ratings speaking for themselves, well, they did. The ratings took a huge rise while this was occurring and Conan's last live show garnered nearly unprecedented shares - better than either Leno or Letterman. So I guess somebody was watching after all.

People like to watch controversy, trainwrecks, and meltdowns.

Nobody cared before that.

[mookie2001]

Conan isn't funny


He's even to the point where he's not funny for a network latenight host, which is pretty bad



Interesting to see how long his "youthful" audience lasts, the guy is 45 and not exactly changing the game with content or doing anything special besides being on tv about tv

[SA210]

Conan needs to take his show to HBO.

[SA210]