Matt Bonner Back For More: One-Year, Minimum Deal

[Sean Cagney]

I'm no fan boy. I was suggesting he was done a long time ago, and his shooting was dropping off, and I was wrong. I revisited, and changed by opinion. I think those belly-aching about him are still wrong, at least for this minor role. Again, no one is advocating anything more than regular season minute eater, garbage time role player, or special situation use. Just trying to be rational. Not emotional. Not upset enough to go ad hominem, for example.

Okay I agree with you on that part, as a 14th man and situational he is fine! He is what he is as you and the other dude said and we have to accept that because that won't change. Pop wanted his stretch 4 badly after Horry and tried to make Bonner that, in which he is not Horry by any stretch. Bonner seems to be a fan fave for some and the players love him, must be a good dude to be around and a good presence in the locker room so I guess you do need that on a team.

[Sean Cagney]

That's called confidence -- which is understandable because he was a very good role player in many phases of the game, he was not a clutch player though because there's no such thing as a clutch player.

If there was such thing as a clutch player and if Horry was one, Horry would have came through for the Rockets in 1992, 1993. He would have came through for the Lakers in 1998 ,1999, 2000 and 2003. He would have came through for the Spurs in 2004, 2006, 2008. He missed a lot big shots those years and didn't shoot the three as well as he did in the regular season -- but no one remembers that because they're delusional and infatuated about the " clutch player" mystique.

A lot of people use the term clutch though for certain players like Horry, Jordan, Bird etc., they make the shots when it counts and are not afraid to let it fly being they are confident. If you don't use the word clutch fine, but many do so you can't really argue there because it's a matter of opinion on whether you want to use that word or not for a player. I will still use it and many will, nothing wrong with saying it IMO because if the guy shoots a pretty good % when the game is on the line or in the 4th Q to me he is money.

Look, you're a good poster, and I know you know about basketball. And, yeah, guys are who they are. But in any sport, there are guys who wilt under pressure. That's undeniable, and it's what separates the greats from the goats. If "clutch" means a guy who hits every buzzer-beater when the game is tied, or makes every FT to keep the Championship from being lost in OT - then, yeah, that's bull . So how about if we define "clutch" as a guy who doesn't go to under pressure? Doesn't look like a deer in the headlights. If guys "are who they are" how about clutch meaning the guy who is still who he is, rather than worse.

When it comes to the playoffs, Bonner is worse. You can't get around it. Yeah, the sample size is smaller, but that's true no matter what player you try to analyze. The fact is, Bonner has gotten a LOT of playoff experience, because he's played 9 years with the team that spends the most time in the playoffs. So if we can't analyze his playoff stats, we might as well stop keeping playoff stats. He's only started a few playoff games, but he's got enough games, and enough minutes to examine.

I don't remember him being the guy with the ball in his hands, during the "clutch" moments of playoff games, so it's not about that. His minutes have been bread-and-butter time. And you can't deny that his performance has consistently been significantly worse during playoff time. Enough worse to be noticeable. (Pop has obviously noticed it.) I think you know too much about the game to totally ignore it.

So, yeah, he's cheap insurance during the regular season. But if anyone thinks he'll figure significantly into the playoff picture (barring some terrible injuries to other players), I would love to make a wager or two. That's all I said to begin with. He's there for regular season cannon fodder, and insurance.





The fact is, Horry WANTED the ball in those situations. In his mind, he KNEW he could make the big shot. He thrived on that, lived for it. And THAT may be the difference between "clutch" and the guys that are deer in the headlights.

Besides the fact that Bonner got 20 mpg and then the other years a lot less says it all, there is a reason why his minutes and shots are less in the playoffs and rightfully so. He is used to his role now and gets less minutes and shots, very good reason for that too.

[Chinook]

You show me a 'clutch' player, and I'll show you a player who is unfocused for most of the game.

[littlecoyotecoin]

138 SHOTS

In more detail, you don't get to throw out 22% (especially the nonrandom 22% that you specifically chose because it doesn't support your hypothesis) of your data, and then say: the remaining 78% of the data supports my hypothesis.

I don't know how many of his 138 playoff shots were taken during those two games you want to throw out, but similar reasoning applies. You don't get to throw out that (what probably amounts to a similar percentage of shots) number of shots, and only look at 138 - x that remain; the ones that support your hypothesis.

Something else that hasn't been mentioned, really, is when he is called in to shoot one shot, cold off the bench, after a timeout, to end a quarter, half, etc. It's a tall order for a player. He often plays without having had time to get a rythm, etc. So, there's another reason I have at least a modi of respect for him and the role they ask him to play, in addition to the glue, character, and corporate knowledge stuff that's been acknowledged many times over by people on both sides of the debate.

[SnakeBoy]

Thats his attribute then, surely not made shots nor key memorable plays when the game is on the line. I hear that argument a lot and that is all they really have for Bonner. IMO the guy is not that good outside of made threes during the year, which he is pretty good at during regular season.

He has plenty of other attributes. He stretches the floor, he makes people laugh, he knows where to get good sandwiches anywhere in the world, and doggone it people like him.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

You show me a 'clutch' player, and I'll show you a player who is unfocused for most of the game.

sounds a lot like the Spurs throwing regular season games, in favor of rest for the playoffs.

[TheGoldStandard]

He better be in a suit this season, taking minutes away from any of the young guys is robbery

[DrunkTXLabrat]

the debate of Bonner's value, whether it's as a cheap, familiar, shooting, role player. Or a deceptively costly, irrelevant, bricking, wasted roster spot. proving things, and simply realizing things. the existance of "clutch" and "it factor." it all reminds me of the political debate of libertarian ideology vs common society. who better understands? there is no definitive answer, i suppose. i disagree, but for the sake of peace, i will suppose there is no definitive answer. Since it doesn't really matter, anyways. Pop has a hard on for Bonner, and they've achieved considerable success. Many fans agree and disagree, but Pop and RC make the calls. Fans are truly very insignificant.

just for fun, i found this long debate between libertarian and non-libertarian powerhouses. Fellow Bonner hating, clutch factor believers. If you can't accept that evil has won, i beg you... accept it! watch the video... learn to embrace evil, so that you might learn to better affect it. acceptance is the weapon of the innovators. rejection is the weapon of the evil. if you reject your acceptance, you have lost your ability to affect evil. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AcUkA0tq28

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqA2PVOIJ3c

[T Park]

[QUOTE=SpurPadre;8122440]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




Ah well, I guess there's no such thing as a perfect situation. Still a great offseason.[/QUOTE


Mommy didn't bring down his PBJ sammich without the crusts again

[T Park]

He better be in a suit this season, taking minutes away from any of the young guys is robbery

What young guys? There are no young big men on this team.

[Mugen]

Gimme a smooch, EricB.

[Sean Cagney]

He has plenty of other attributes. He stretches the floor, he makes people laugh, he knows where to get good sandwiches anywhere in the world, and doggone it people like him.

LOL stretches the floor, that is the main defense for him 99% of the time, agreed on the other things so I guess that is why he sticks around. As far as a player goes obviously he is not that talented but as a 14th or 15th man for that price he can stay of the guys like him that much. I would not want him in there during a big playoff game though, no way.

[200 miles]

What young guys? There are no young big men on this team.

What about Boban? I honestly looking forward to seeing him have a decent amount of playing time, but with Matty re-signed, you know there's a good chance Pop will be tempted to use him as a fifth big instead of a sixth.

[SAGirl]

As basically everyone is saying, unless you have a personal dislike for Bonner, you can't really say it's a bad move by itself. Bonner at the end of the bench for the min is fine.

It is a bad move however if it impacts Spurs need for a vet wing. If Spurs don't add him because either they want to have that 15th roster spot open or for financial reasons, then signing Bonner for the min sucks. Spurs just need way more that vet wing than this 6th big. It would be crazy to start ing about that because we have no clue if the Bonner signing will have some kind of impact on the addition of a vet shooting wing.

Not thrilled at all by Bonner, but I guess he is good insurance. For an end of the bench guy he is ok. More and more it seems like the Spurs are sold on KA. I personally like his game and think he is ready for some regular rotation mins. Those who are not sold on him (Darkwaters) are the ones who should be going bat crazy.
P.S. Bonner = not clutch, really only a very slow release shooter who wilts under pressure. He has kept his % up by making shots with guys nowhere in his vicinity. If someone is within 5 feet and going to closeout, he is not taking that shot.

[keeferob25]

Not thrilled at all by Bonner, but I guess he is good insurance. For an end of the bench guy he is ok. More and more it seems like the Spurs are sold on KA. I personally like his game and think he is ready for some regular rotation mins. Those who are not sold on him (Darkwaters) are the ones who should be going bat crazy.
P.S. Bonner = not clutch, really only a very slow release shooter who wilts under pressure. He has kept his % up by making shots with guys nowhere in his vicinity. If someone is within 5 feet and going to closeout, he is not taking that shot.

Yeah, I'm a HUGE fan of Bonner the person as he seems genuinely awesome by all accounts. But Bonner the basketball player I have never cared for and he is now fairly useless...at least on the actual court. What annoys me somewhat is this notion that it shouldn't matter much as he's only an insurance or end of the bench guy. Well should that matter? Shouldn't it be filled by someone who CAN make an impact if needed. Look at our history and see that Steve Kerr was an end of the bench guy in 2003. He didn't see ANY minutes against Phoenix. Like 10 minutes against LA. Yet when we NEEDED that end of the bench guy to perform...he saved our asses. Now the need for such a bench player to perform is more an outlier than a norm but it WAS the difference between a win and a loss. Bonner sucks. David Lee was big for GS in the finals this year and he didn't see much time. Jaren Jackson for us was big. Shane Battier was utter garbage in 2013 until he destroyed us in Game 7. Joseph was a difference against OKC with JUST a simple dunk. It matters that you can actually do something on the floor. Bonner really can't. But he's here so welcome back i guess.

[TD 21]

Manu towards the end of the season was playing a less, more around 18 minutes. He was also lacking in scoring and his decision making was compromised the more of a burden you put on him. Spurs signed Simmons bc he can get his own shot as well as shoot the 3. They are developing KA to be a playmaker and a scorer who doesn't need others to create a shot for him. It will be easier for MAnu to play with guys like these, who can hit the 3 but also do their own thing than to have to create looks for a spot up shooter. I agree w/ Manutres. You are thinking this Manu will be like the MAnu of old and he won't be. Second unit will be more dynamic than b4 and less dependent on Manu. He is likely to play a lot off of other guys. He really couldn't at times last year handle all the playmaking burden by himself. He is likely to be even more effective with less of a burden and more help.

Anderson and Simmons are unproven NBA players, let alone rotation ones and rotations ones for a legit contender. Asking either to fill that role, particularly when neither appears an ideal fit, is probably asking too much.

I'm not thinking Ginobili will be the Ginobili of old; I'm thinking he'll be the one he's been in recent seasons. They've been (understandably) somewhat slow transitioning more creative/play making responsibilities to Leonard, who's emerged as one of the best players in the league, but they're going to immediately do so for two unproven nobody's? Suffice it to say, I'll believe it when I see it.

[timtonymanu]

Gimme a smooch, EricB.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Yeah, I'm a HUGE fan of Bonner the person as he seems genuinely awesome by all accounts. But Bonner the basketball player I have never cared for and he is now fairly useless...at least on the actual court. What annoys me somewhat is this notion that it shouldn't matter much as he's only an insurance or end of the bench guy. Well should that matter? Shouldn't it be filled by someone who CAN make an impact if needed. Look at our history and see that Steve Kerr was an end of the bench guy in 2003. He didn't see ANY minutes against Phoenix. Like 10 minutes against LA. Yet when we NEEDED that end of the bench guy to perform...he saved our asses. Now the need for such a bench player to perform is more an outlier than a norm but it WAS the difference between a win and a loss. Bonner sucks. David Lee was big for GS in the finals this year and he didn't see much time. Jaren Jackson for us was big. Shane Battier was utter garbage in 2013 until he destroyed us in Game 7. Joseph was a difference against OKC with JUST a simple dunk. It matters that you can actually do something on the floor. Bonner really can't. But he's here so welcome back i guess.

David Lee made 15 million last year. He will make 15.5 this year. I think that's right. There are some other issues with your post, but you lose me on that alone. Bonner probably makes 1.5. Don't you think David Lee should be a little more productive?

[Darkwaters]

I didn't see who said that, that you are referring to, but I, Timvp, Baseline Bum, and Popovich disagree, at least in regard to him subbing in for our starting three on some occasions during foul trouble situations, or certain matchups. But, feel free to continue protesting Diaw's inclusion at the end of the SF lists of various posters.

There are some isolated situations where playing Diaw in a limited role at the 3 might make sense. However, they are so few and far between that it's a reach to call him a "backup 3."

[DrunkTXLabrat]

David Lee made 15 million last year. He will make 15.5 this year. I think that's right. There are some other issues with your post, but you lose me on that alone. Bonner probably makes 1.5. Don't you think David Lee should be a little more productive?

you missed the point of the relation to david lee. you followed it to some conclusion of cost, didn't seem to notice that he's talking about what the roster spot can be. cost is regardless. he's talking about having a player, obviously not lee, but like lee. one that produces in the playoffs, or at least one that may more likely turn out to be more of a playoff producer. in opposition to the idea that Bonner is an effective playoff player.

[keeferob25]

And Bonner isn't even worth 1.5. Contract is immaterial to the fact that he is does nothing on the actual NBA court at this point in his career where we could be looking at someone else that COULD be more productive in that role. Again, there's no way you can refute my Kerr point (which is why you jumped straight to Lee) in relation to this notion that because he's end of the bench that it wont matter much. Kerr could still actually shoot...and in the playoffs might I add. Bonner can't and never has. He's useless. You all are clearly mixing your like for the guy and his personality and then pretending there's on the court value. There is none...whether at 15.5 million or a measly 1.5 (in nba standards).

[james evans]

That dude is like jason voorhees and Michael Meyers. He just won't go away no matter what.

[urunobili]

9 years corporate knowledge for the vet minimum? bargain! thanks FO!

[SilverSpur]

I'm happy for him. I think the only way he's not on this team is if he leaves on his own terms.

[spurraider21]

same paycheck as david west